A neutrals perspective on the Manny debate ..........

[Jimmy G-Force]

the key is how to approach MP the right way.

Isnt that just the truth. His way or the highway.

Yep, give him and his team ALL they want or no fight for the hungry public. As a man of the people Manny does come come across as a rather selfish and egotistical little man. All it took was a random blood test.

Very true Miles. Power, fame and money can do alot to obscure a mans perception of himself. Sad but true. And as much as he comes across as this happy go lucky fighter, there is a huge power freak within that small frame. No question.

[pacQ]

the key is how to approach MP the right way.

Isnt that just the truth. His way or the highway.

hehehehe

imo, MP was "rubbed the wrong way".

consider the timing - MP's birthday dec17, and christmas season here in the philippines, MP is very very busy with family and friends etc.

He also had to deal with: 1) showbizness-his wapakman entry to the film festival. (it flopped) and 2) politics -May2010 elections.

so many distractions, so much on this simple guy's mind then here comes the drugtesting demand from the mayweather camp.

[Kirkland Laing]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

[pacQ]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

[Kirkland Laing]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

[pacQ]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

[TheBranMan]

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

A demand that will need to come into fruition in the sport at some point anyway, unless we want it to become a roided-up joke like the WWE. Why should it not happen now? Why not set a good example for the future of the sport in the biggest fight of our generation? Oh wait.. that's right, because Manny's scarred or needles, or superstitious, or whatever the excuse is this week....

[arcanum26]

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

You could also say that the penalty fee of $10 million per pound in excess of the agreed weight is the first in the history of boxing, afaik. That's just the demand of manny and his camp.

Simply put, you can't use the excuse "fukc it, this has never been demanded before as terms in a boxing fight, so I won't do it". Much like all of manny and his camp's prior excuses as to why they won't take the random tests without any string attached.

If it's really just a matter of pride, then the fact still lingers. Manny's refusal to take the tests has created a reservoir of ill will and doubt amongst many boxing fans and has certainly produced a blemish in pac's image that won't easily be removed by going taking the issue to court.

[sanj16]

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

Olympic style testing is better.
Before the first drug test.........never in the history was there drug testing.
Times move on, there has to be a first time for everything. You should always use the best that is available. This is the richest fight in history, so should be making firsts.
Mannys refusal to do something so minor that has created something so hugh is very suspicious. Common sense tells us that if he is willing to give this up, he must be keeping something more important, and not just the upper hand in negotiations. There is no point having the upper hand in a non-fight

[Kirkland Laing]

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

That's what the baseball drug cheats said. And there was no testing in baseball because there was no steroid cheating in baseball up until the end of last century. As soon as they brought it in they caught a bunch of drug cheats.

Manny hasn't failed any tests but neither did Sugar Shane, Marion Jones, a bunch of other people who we now know were drug cheats.

Since this blew up before Christmas Manny's actions and public statements are those of a guilty man.

[miron_lang]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

[Kirkland Laing]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

He never won another fight again after that and just before that he'd finished the Barrera trilogy which was a career-ender in itself. Hard to argue he was still at his peak.

[josef4334]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

i guess he forgot how that pre fight negotiations went. how erik got all his demands. like using the winning gloves, blood drawn 2 days before the fight. i guess if you lose to a completely shot morales you dont deserve to win anymore after that huh?

[Zilla]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

i guess he forgot how that pre fight negotiations went. how erik got all his demands. like using the winning gloves, blood drawn 2 days before the fight. i guess if you lose to a completely shot morales you dont deserve to win anymore after that huh?

So Manny can have blood drawn shortly before a fight then. So there's even less of an excuse for him to not agree to the random testing.

[josef4334]

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

i guess he forgot how that pre fight negotiations went. how erik got all his demands. like using the winning gloves, blood drawn 2 days before the fight. i guess if you lose to a completely shot morales you dont deserve to win anymore after that huh?

So Manny can have blood drawn shortly before a fight then. So there's even less of an excuse for him to not agree to the random testing.

he agreed to that. his main point is not having his blood draw so close to the fight based on personal experience in the first morales fight. having blood draw after the fight wont affect his performance anymore right?