A neutrals perspective on the Manny debate ..........

[Kirkland Laing]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

[pacQ]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

[Kirkland Laing]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

[pacQ]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

[TheBranMan]

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

A demand that will need to come into fruition in the sport at some point anyway, unless we want it to become a roided-up joke like the WWE. Why should it not happen now? Why not set a good example for the future of the sport in the biggest fight of our generation? Oh wait.. that's right, because Manny's scarred or needles, or superstitious, or whatever the excuse is this week....

[pacQ]

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

A demand that will need to come into fruition in the sport at some point anyway, unless we want it to become a roided-up joke like the WWE. Why should it not happen now? Why not set a good example for the future of the sport in the biggest fight of our generation? Oh wait.. that's right, because Manny's scarred or needles, or superstitious, or whatever the excuse is this week....

i dont think so esp. the demand came from the mayweathers & gbp. they wont own him!

personally i also want a clean boxing world. but it should be for ALL not only for mannyP just because the mayweathers and gbp sez so

[TheBranMan]

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

A demand that will need to come into fruition in the sport at some point anyway, unless we want it to become a roided-up joke like the WWE. Why should it not happen now? Why not set a good example for the future of the sport in the biggest fight of our generation? Oh wait.. that's right, because Manny's scarred or needles, or superstitious, or whatever the excuse is this week....

i dont think so esp. the demand came from the mayweathers & gbp. they wont own him!

personally i also want a clean boxing world. but it should be for ALL not only for mannyP just because the mayweathers and gbp sez so

It isn't so that everyone in boxing is juicing except for Manny (yeh right :P), he can rest assured that Floyd is undergoing exactly the same tests that he's having to do. If it's only about ego then Floyd and GBP have already bent on their idea of USADA testing to suit Manny. He can't have everything his way.

Also, by your logic, if this was suggested by anyone but MW (governing body maybe), it would be worthwhile? Well, everyone now wants to know if Manny's been using. Silence your critics Manny, take the damn tests.

[arcanum26]

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

You could also say that the penalty fee of $10 million per pound in excess of the agreed weight is the first in the history of boxing, afaik. That's just the demand of manny and his camp.

Simply put, you can't use the excuse "fukc it, this has never been demanded before as terms in a boxing fight, so I won't do it". Much like all of manny and his camp's prior excuses as to why they won't take the random tests without any string attached.

If it's really just a matter of pride, then the fact still lingers. Manny's refusal to take the tests has created a reservoir of ill will and doubt amongst many boxing fans and has certainly produced a blemish in pac's image that won't easily be removed by going taking the issue to court.

[sanj16]

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

Olympic style testing is better.
Before the first drug test.........never in the history was there drug testing.
Times move on, there has to be a first time for everything. You should always use the best that is available. This is the richest fight in history, so should be making firsts.
Mannys refusal to do something so minor that has created something so hugh is very suspicious. Common sense tells us that if he is willing to give this up, he must be keeping something more important, and not just the upper hand in negotiations. There is no point having the upper hand in a non-fight

[Saddo]

Fantastic post Jimmy as always

i am on this side of the fence also... and this little guy continues to impress me even when i thought he was giving all the advantages away he beats them at their own game.

and as for ego its the nature of the beast... look at Roy jones, mayweather and not to forget Hatton these guys climb the ladder and change although i belive it was always there with mayweather hence his slave labour quote many years ago

massive fanbase and big money fights can change the most humble of guys or atleast the team that surrounds them and why not they are the best the problem is when they meet a mirror ego imageand sometimes the fans lose out.

[Kirkland Laing]

tell that to the NSAC.

NO PROOFS NO EVIDENCE, ALL BASELESS ACCUSATIONS SPECULATION

Manny refuses to give us the proof that he's innocent. All he has to do is to give a few teaspoons of blood, yet he refuses to do it and is making endless ridiculous excuses for not doing so even though he's losing a $40 million payday and his reputation by continuing to refuse. Why won't he give us the proof?

NEVER in the history of boxing has there been any "olympic style" random bloodtesting. its just the demand of the mayweathers/gbp.

mannyP has NEVER FAILED any medical tests given by ALL boxing governing bodies

lets see what happens next...

That's what the baseball drug cheats said. And there was no testing in baseball because there was no steroid cheating in baseball up until the end of last century. As soon as they brought it in they caught a bunch of drug cheats.

Manny hasn't failed any tests but neither did Sugar Shane, Marion Jones, a bunch of other people who we now know were drug cheats.

Since this blew up before Christmas Manny's actions and public statements are those of a guilty man.

[miron_lang]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

[Kirkland Laing]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

He never won another fight again after that and just before that he'd finished the Barrera trilogy which was a career-ender in itself. Hard to argue he was still at his peak.

[josef4334]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

i guess he forgot how that pre fight negotiations went. how erik got all his demands. like using the winning gloves, blood drawn 2 days before the fight. i guess if you lose to a completely shot morales you dont deserve to win anymore after that huh?

[Zilla]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

You almost had a fair post until the bolded one.

i guess he forgot how that pre fight negotiations went. how erik got all his demands. like using the winning gloves, blood drawn 2 days before the fight. i guess if you lose to a completely shot morales you dont deserve to win anymore after that huh?

So Manny can have blood drawn shortly before a fight then. So there's even less of an excuse for him to not agree to the random testing.