Welcome back Kelly Pavlik

[Mr140]

Ok all i got to say is this, i think people are overrating Paul and Martinz. I mean sure there good fighters, but they both are there to be hit Paul the most. Also neither has faced a truth prime middle weight either. I can see Pavlik knocking both out at middle weight if it happens. Also just because Hopkins beat Pavlik doesn't mean these to fighters can. That fight was at 170 and Hopkins is more talented then both combined pretty much. Either way won't even know till the fight gets made, so guess we got to wait.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

Ok all i got to say is this, i think people are overrating Paul and Martinz. I mean sure there good fighters, but they both are there to be hit Paul the most. Also neither has faced a truth prime middle weight either. I can see Pavlik knocking both out at middle weight if it happens. Also just because Hopkins beat Pavlik doesn't mean these to fighters can. That fight was at 170 and Hopkins is more talented then both combined pretty much. Either way won't even know till the fight gets made, so guess we got to wait.

I don't think people are over rating them at this juncture, but giving them what they deserve... Two crowd pleasing guys who both have good skills that no one really wants to fight that put on a good show... I don't see huge Martinez or Williams contingents growing... I just see people giving them their due. Agreed on the not fought a prime middleweight front.

[Youngblood]

This is Kelly's make or break year. Let's face it, he had a terrible year last year both in and out of the ring. Moreso out. Yea he has demons. But who doesn't? The question is, can he control them and overcome them?

I suppose we'll find out. The true measure of Pavlik will be how he handles the adversity. How he conducts himself in and out of the ring this year. I haven't given up on him, like I see so many others have. I think he deserves another chance. I think he is capable and has redeeming qualities. Hopefully he does too.

If he screws it up, then he never appreciated the opportunity he had. Much as I believe a majority of boxing fans are fickle and can't wait to bag on and drop a fighter for another or jump on the haterade train, in some cases it is deservedly so. I don't think he is there yet. But after this year we'll see.

I'm still rooting for him.

[El Kabong]

You have to wonder if Hopkins just laid out the blueprint on how to beat the guy for everyone to see, or if Kelly i sjust feeling like that. I think Jermain Taylor gave him a good run in the rematch and had JT not been so damaged from the battles with Hopkins and the previous KO I could assure you he would have beaten Pavlik. JT just faded out quick, and sometimes that happens to "The man that follows the man".

I think the major issues for Kelly are: he's not fighting often enough, he's in a deadzone in Youngstown, he's gotten thoroughly schooled, and Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez are VERY dangerous fighters right now both could not only beat Pavlik but knock him out, and I think another issue is there's no where for Kelly to run, he's looked like shit above 160...I mean bad enough to the point where you could see a mediocre fighter at 168 totally school him and if that doesn't get fixed 2010 could be Kelly Pavlik's LAST year of boxing especially if he takes another loss as bad or worse than the Hopkins loss.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

You have to wonder if Hopkins just laid out the blueprint on how to beat the guy for everyone to see, or if Kelly i sjust feeling like that. I think Jermain Taylor gave him a good run in the rematch and had JT not been so damaged from the battles with Hopkins and the previous KO I could assure you he would have beaten Pavlik. JT just faded out quick, and sometimes that happens to "The man that follows the man".

I think the major issues for Kelly are: he's not fighting often enough, he's in a deadzone in Youngstown, he's gotten thoroughly schooled, and Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez are VERY dangerous fighters right now both could not only beat Pavlik but knock him out, and I think another issue is there's no where for Kelly to run, he's looked like shit above 160...I mean bad enough to the point where you could see a mediocre fighter at 168 totally school him and if that doesn't get fixed 2010 could be Kelly Pavlik's LAST year of boxing especially if he takes another loss as bad or worse than the Hopkins loss.

Hard to take a worse loss than that... I mean, that was a Lacy/ Calzaghe like schooling... I think the only difference was the huge contingent(including me) that thought Lacy was gonna decapitate Joe. Taking anywhere close to another schooling like that would ruin any elite fighter.

[Mr140]

I dont think Paul or Martiniz hit as hard as Hopkins. Also Hopkins outboxed Pavlik at 170 and he atg as well. Paul and Martiniz are 154 pounds who dont even have same boxing skill as Hopkins. Also I can easly see Martiniz getting pushed around by Pavlik by his size and power. Then theres Paul who is there to be hit and which while lead to him getting knocked out. Pavlik is far from prefect but i dont see the jr middle weights giving him trouble to be honest.

[The Shadow]

Missed the return of one of my favourite fighters last night, because yet again, it wasnt televised in Britain. Good to see Pavlik return to his knockout ways and from what i hear, Espino put up a brave effort before getting stopped so kudos to him. For the people who saw the fight, what did you think?

Well, it was a mixed bag. Espino is a respectable opponent, who has recently languished in obscurity after winning the contender, only then to fight in small clubs in Mexico. His game plane -- Espino, that is -- was all wrong: he wanted to throw with Pavlik, which ultimately led to his demise. I think Espino's stock climbed after the fight and it didn't do much for Pavlik, who should have pressed hard for a rematch with B-Hop after being completely schooled by the crafty, old-school veteran.

Don't know if any of you have heard, but Jack Leow's -- Pavlik's trainer -- wife has passed away. My thoughts and prayers go out to Leow and his family.

That being said, I think Pavlik will push for the Williams fight. I've been following Williams pretty close and I think that fight -- if it happens -- can go either way. Williams has the superior footwork and natural athleticism, while Pavlik has the big punch. That isn't to say that Pavlik isn't a fine athlete on his own, I just think Williams is a bit better.

It's a fight that has to be made, and after Williams' last fight, I'm sure Kelly is licking his lips with anticipation. We'll see.

[Rantcatrat]

[quote=PRIDE OF BOSTON;831226]

You have to wonder if Hopkins just laid out the blueprint on how to beat the guy for everyone to see, or if Kelly i sjust feeling like that. I think Jermain Taylor gave him a good run in the rematch and had JT not been so damaged from the battles with Hopkins and the previous KO I could assure you he would have beaten Pavlik. JT just faded out quick, and sometimes that happens to "The man that follows the man".

I think the major issues for Kelly are: he's not fighting often enough, he's in a deadzone in Youngstown, he's gotten thoroughly schooled, and Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez are VERY dangerous fighters right now both could not only beat Pavlik but knock him out, and I think another issue is there's no where for Kelly to run, he's looked like shit above 160...I mean bad enough to the point where you could see a mediocre fighter at 168 totally school him and if that doesn't get fixed 2010 could be Kelly Pavlik's LAST year of boxing especially if he takes another loss as bad or worse than the Hopkins loss.

The guy has ONE loss on his record and it was to an ATG at 10 pounds above his natural weight class. Don't make too much of that loss. As you mentioned many times, Pavlik had a piss poor 2009. Compare his 2009 coming off the loss to Hopkins and Cotto's 2009 coming off his loss to Margarito. It is night and day. Cotto fought Clottey and Pacquiao. Pavlik fought Espino and Rubio. Pavlik needs to bounce back with a big win over an established opponent. We already know Pavlik is better than any B or C level fighter. No more Rubios or Espinos. That is why I asked you, Lyle, who can Pavlik beat to reestablish himself as one of the sport's best. Williams? Sturm? Martinez?

It isn't much, but the only thing Pavlik can take away from the Hopkins loss is that he never went down. He may have taken a beating but he had the heart to stand and deal with it for twelve rounds. That shows big-time chin and big-time heart. The difference with the Hopkins/Pavlik and the Lacy/Calzaghe fight/beat down was that Lacy was fighting at his natural weight, mentally Pavlik can chalk up his loss to being outside his natural element at 170 against a great.

I dont think Paul or Martiniz hit as hard as Hopkins. Also Hopkins outboxed Pavlik at 170 and he atg as well. Paul and Martiniz are 154 pounds who dont even have same boxing skill as Hopkins. Also I can easly see Martiniz getting pushed around by Pavlik by his size and power. Then theres Paul who is there to be hit and which while lead to him getting knocked out. Pavlik is far from prefect but i dont see the jr middle weights giving him trouble to be honest.

I agree with most of this post. However, I like Martinez's boxing skills. I'm not saying he is Hopkins, but he looked good against Williams...at 160. [On a side note, I think Williams negotiated to have the fight at 160 because in my opinion, he knew Martinez may be too much at 154 or at least he wanted every advantage possible.] I can see Martinez giving Pavlik trouble at 160 because Martinez can move and Pavlik will need to catch him to hurt him. Before the Martinez fight, I leaned toward Williams against Pavlik, and I may now too, the difference now only is that I know that if Martinez can hurt Williams, Pavlik can definitely hurt him.

[Diane]

Missed the return of one of my favourite fighters last night, because yet again, it wasnt televised in Britain. Good to see Pavlik return to his knockout ways and from what i hear, Espino put up a brave effort before getting stopped so kudos to him. For the people who saw the fight, what did you think?

Well, it was a mixed bag. Espino is a respectable opponent, who has recently languished in obscurity after winning the contender, only then to fight in small clubs in Mexico. His game plane -- Espino, that is -- was all wrong: he wanted to throw with Pavlik, which ultimately led to his demise. I think Espino's stock climbed after the fight and it didn't do much for Pavlik, who should have pressed hard for a rematch with B-Hop after being completely schooled by the crafty, old-school veteran.

Don't know if any of you have heard, but Jack Leow's -- Pavlik's trainer -- wife has passed away. My thoughts and prayers go out to Leow and his family.

That being said, I think Pavlik will push for the Williams fight. I've been following Williams pretty close and I think that fight -- if it happens -- can go either way. Williams has the superior footwork and natural athleticism, while Pavlik has the big punch. That isn't to say that Pavlik isn't a fine athlete on his own, I just think Williams is a bit better.

It's a fight that has to be made, and after Williams' last fight, I'm sure Kelly is licking his lips with anticipation. We'll see.

Sorry, but I need to correct you on two things....

First, Espino didn't win The Contender, he lost in the first round.

Second, it was Jack Loew's mother that died, not his wife.


Also as a side note, while there are talks in place for Pavlik to fight Martinez in April, I read that Al Haymon, Williams manager, has made an offer for a rematch with Martinez. So it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[Rantcatrat]

If Martinez rematches Williams, is Sturm the only other respectable opponent at 160 for Pavlik?

[JazMerkin]

It isn't much, but the only thing Pavlik can take away from the Hopkins loss is that he never went down. He may have taken a beating but he had the heart to stand and deal with it for twelve rounds. That shows big-time chin and big-time heart.

I thought quite the opposite. It seemed to me that there were a number of points in the mid-rounds where Hopkins could have finished it, but I got the impression he was keeping him there to do a job on him in the last round like he did to Trinidad. I do think Pavlik showed a good chin and heart in his fights with Taylor, but if he watched the Hopkins fight, I think he would surely have seen those moments where B-Hop mugged at him rather than finish him. Hopkins also has a habit of leaving fighters never the same after they've been in the ring with him, even if they won a la Taylor, they never look quite as good in their subsequent showings.

I do think Lyle is a bit harsh on him though, Pavlik remains one of the hardest punchers in the sport & I think anyone who fights him would have to fight a supremely disciplined fight to beat him. There's only 3 guys from 154-175 that I could say with a great degree of certainty have the discipline to do that, Hopkins, Dawson and Ward. I think Abraham would also beat him because he's got an iron chin and equivalent power, but Pavlik remains good money against most of the others for me.

[Rantcatrat]

When all is said and done what Pavlik needs is a big win against a top quality opponent to prove the naysayers wrong. Bottom line. Of the available opponents, a knockout win over Williams/Martinez would do it in my eyes as would one over Sturm.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

If Martinez rematches Williams, is Sturm the only other respectable opponent at 160 for Pavlik?

Pretty much and Sturm won't fight Pavlik... He's content with his title and defending it in his country. Pavlik would beat Sturm at this juncture of his career. I think the Sturm that beat ODLH is past.

[JonnyFolds]

I call him a punk because he had been on the right track fighting threats and then he (like Sturm and Abraham before the super6) just started fighting bums....Lockett, Epsino who the fuck are they

Kelly got his ass whupped 1 time and he's been sulking about it ever since then....I think mentally he's shot, we've seen it before where a fighter loses once and they can't cope with it so they continue to look poor and lose fights....well Kelly is now on that path.

I think Williams could beat Kelly but I KNOW Martinez would

I agree, I think Martinez would beat Pavlik, and we may get the chance to see it, because I heard that there are already talks for the fight to happen in April. I guess HBO is pushing for it, because I think that they know that a fight between Pavlik and Williams will probably never happen. Williams wants 50% of the purse, because of everything that has happened, and no way will Pavlik and Top Rank agree to that. Plus, it's pretty obvious that HBO has taken to Martinez, and want to get him some more fights on their network.

I used to be a big fan of Pavlik, especially since he's a local guy, but I lost pretty much all my respect for him by how extremely unprofessional he was during this past year. Of course for me personally, the issue at the top of my list is the way he bitched out of the SIGNED contract he had with Sergio Mora.

Martinez is a beast! It's sad we're all just seeing it now(meaning as of Cintron through the fight with Williams)... He was a hidden tresure to people like myself... I'm sure there's gonna be alot of shit talkers on here that are gonna pop off at the mouth that they knew all about Sergio Martinez a long time ago... Whatever.. Fact is, I knew his name, his record and that's it... When he KNOCKED OUT CINTRON... He opened my eyes... Great boxer... great poise... loose... comfortable... solid boxer... Then came the Williams bout... FUCKING BEST THING THAT HAS HAPPENED TO MATINEZ's career! God bless Martinez! He took a fight at a catch weight agaist a deamon of a fighter. Sad it's happened so late. I know he lost to Margarito but he is not the same fighter... Not at all... I've seen that fight. Martinez is the best natural jr middleweight in the world...

I am 100% sure that Martinez fought to a highly controversial DRAW with Cintron... But the rest of the post is very, very true. So many people are going to talk like they always knew what Martinez was about, but unless you are from Argentina you'd never have known. He has quickly become one of my favorite fighters overnight!

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

I agree, I think Martinez would beat Pavlik, and we may get the chance to see it, because I heard that there are already talks for the fight to happen in April. I guess HBO is pushing for it, because I think that they know that a fight between Pavlik and Williams will probably never happen. Williams wants 50% of the purse, because of everything that has happened, and no way will Pavlik and Top Rank agree to that. Plus, it's pretty obvious that HBO has taken to Martinez, and want to get him some more fights on their network.

I used to be a big fan of Pavlik, especially since he's a local guy, but I lost pretty much all my respect for him by how extremely unprofessional he was during this past year. Of course for me personally, the issue at the top of my list is the way he bitched out of the SIGNED contract he had with Sergio Mora.

Martinez is a beast! It's sad we're all just seeing it now(meaning as of Cintron through the fight with Williams)... He was a hidden tresure to people like myself... I'm sure there's gonna be alot of shit talkers on here that are gonna pop off at the mouth that they knew all about Sergio Martinez a long time ago... Whatever.. Fact is, I knew his name, his record and that's it... When he KNOCKED OUT CINTRON... He opened my eyes... Great boxer... great poise... loose... comfortable... solid boxer... Then came the Williams bout... FUCKING BEST THING THAT HAS HAPPENED TO MATINEZ's career! God bless Martinez! He took a fight at a catch weight agaist a deamon of a fighter. Sad it's happened so late. I know he lost to Margarito but he is not the same fighter... Not at all... I've seen that fight. Martinez is the best natural jr middleweight in the world...

I am 100% sure that Martinez fought to a highly controversial DRAW with Cintron... But the rest of the post is very, very true. So many people are going to talk like they always knew what Martinez was about, but unless you are from Argentina you'd never have known. He has quickly become one of my favorite fighters overnight!

Yup, that's what his record says but the fans know Cintron lost that fight like 3 times that night.