Welcome back Kelly Pavlik

[The Shadow]

Missed the return of one of my favourite fighters last night, because yet again, it wasnt televised in Britain. Good to see Pavlik return to his knockout ways and from what i hear, Espino put up a brave effort before getting stopped so kudos to him. For the people who saw the fight, what did you think?

Well, it was a mixed bag. Espino is a respectable opponent, who has recently languished in obscurity after winning the contender, only then to fight in small clubs in Mexico. His game plane -- Espino, that is -- was all wrong: he wanted to throw with Pavlik, which ultimately led to his demise. I think Espino's stock climbed after the fight and it didn't do much for Pavlik, who should have pressed hard for a rematch with B-Hop after being completely schooled by the crafty, old-school veteran.

Don't know if any of you have heard, but Jack Leow's -- Pavlik's trainer -- wife has passed away. My thoughts and prayers go out to Leow and his family.

That being said, I think Pavlik will push for the Williams fight. I've been following Williams pretty close and I think that fight -- if it happens -- can go either way. Williams has the superior footwork and natural athleticism, while Pavlik has the big punch. That isn't to say that Pavlik isn't a fine athlete on his own, I just think Williams is a bit better.

It's a fight that has to be made, and after Williams' last fight, I'm sure Kelly is licking his lips with anticipation. We'll see.

[Rantcatrat]

[quote=PRIDE OF BOSTON;831226]

You have to wonder if Hopkins just laid out the blueprint on how to beat the guy for everyone to see, or if Kelly i sjust feeling like that. I think Jermain Taylor gave him a good run in the rematch and had JT not been so damaged from the battles with Hopkins and the previous KO I could assure you he would have beaten Pavlik. JT just faded out quick, and sometimes that happens to "The man that follows the man".

I think the major issues for Kelly are: he's not fighting often enough, he's in a deadzone in Youngstown, he's gotten thoroughly schooled, and Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez are VERY dangerous fighters right now both could not only beat Pavlik but knock him out, and I think another issue is there's no where for Kelly to run, he's looked like shit above 160...I mean bad enough to the point where you could see a mediocre fighter at 168 totally school him and if that doesn't get fixed 2010 could be Kelly Pavlik's LAST year of boxing especially if he takes another loss as bad or worse than the Hopkins loss.

The guy has ONE loss on his record and it was to an ATG at 10 pounds above his natural weight class. Don't make too much of that loss. As you mentioned many times, Pavlik had a piss poor 2009. Compare his 2009 coming off the loss to Hopkins and Cotto's 2009 coming off his loss to Margarito. It is night and day. Cotto fought Clottey and Pacquiao. Pavlik fought Espino and Rubio. Pavlik needs to bounce back with a big win over an established opponent. We already know Pavlik is better than any B or C level fighter. No more Rubios or Espinos. That is why I asked you, Lyle, who can Pavlik beat to reestablish himself as one of the sport's best. Williams? Sturm? Martinez?

It isn't much, but the only thing Pavlik can take away from the Hopkins loss is that he never went down. He may have taken a beating but he had the heart to stand and deal with it for twelve rounds. That shows big-time chin and big-time heart. The difference with the Hopkins/Pavlik and the Lacy/Calzaghe fight/beat down was that Lacy was fighting at his natural weight, mentally Pavlik can chalk up his loss to being outside his natural element at 170 against a great.

I dont think Paul or Martiniz hit as hard as Hopkins. Also Hopkins outboxed Pavlik at 170 and he atg as well. Paul and Martiniz are 154 pounds who dont even have same boxing skill as Hopkins. Also I can easly see Martiniz getting pushed around by Pavlik by his size and power. Then theres Paul who is there to be hit and which while lead to him getting knocked out. Pavlik is far from prefect but i dont see the jr middle weights giving him trouble to be honest.

I agree with most of this post. However, I like Martinez's boxing skills. I'm not saying he is Hopkins, but he looked good against Williams...at 160. [On a side note, I think Williams negotiated to have the fight at 160 because in my opinion, he knew Martinez may be too much at 154 or at least he wanted every advantage possible.] I can see Martinez giving Pavlik trouble at 160 because Martinez can move and Pavlik will need to catch him to hurt him. Before the Martinez fight, I leaned toward Williams against Pavlik, and I may now too, the difference now only is that I know that if Martinez can hurt Williams, Pavlik can definitely hurt him.

[JazMerkin]

It isn't much, but the only thing Pavlik can take away from the Hopkins loss is that he never went down. He may have taken a beating but he had the heart to stand and deal with it for twelve rounds. That shows big-time chin and big-time heart.

I thought quite the opposite. It seemed to me that there were a number of points in the mid-rounds where Hopkins could have finished it, but I got the impression he was keeping him there to do a job on him in the last round like he did to Trinidad. I do think Pavlik showed a good chin and heart in his fights with Taylor, but if he watched the Hopkins fight, I think he would surely have seen those moments where B-Hop mugged at him rather than finish him. Hopkins also has a habit of leaving fighters never the same after they've been in the ring with him, even if they won a la Taylor, they never look quite as good in their subsequent showings.

I do think Lyle is a bit harsh on him though, Pavlik remains one of the hardest punchers in the sport & I think anyone who fights him would have to fight a supremely disciplined fight to beat him. There's only 3 guys from 154-175 that I could say with a great degree of certainty have the discipline to do that, Hopkins, Dawson and Ward. I think Abraham would also beat him because he's got an iron chin and equivalent power, but Pavlik remains good money against most of the others for me.

[Rantcatrat]

When all is said and done what Pavlik needs is a big win against a top quality opponent to prove the naysayers wrong. Bottom line. Of the available opponents, a knockout win over Williams/Martinez would do it in my eyes as would one over Sturm.

[Diane]

Missed the return of one of my favourite fighters last night, because yet again, it wasnt televised in Britain. Good to see Pavlik return to his knockout ways and from what i hear, Espino put up a brave effort before getting stopped so kudos to him. For the people who saw the fight, what did you think?

Well, it was a mixed bag. Espino is a respectable opponent, who has recently languished in obscurity after winning the contender, only then to fight in small clubs in Mexico. His game plane -- Espino, that is -- was all wrong: he wanted to throw with Pavlik, which ultimately led to his demise. I think Espino's stock climbed after the fight and it didn't do much for Pavlik, who should have pressed hard for a rematch with B-Hop after being completely schooled by the crafty, old-school veteran.

Don't know if any of you have heard, but Jack Leow's -- Pavlik's trainer -- wife has passed away. My thoughts and prayers go out to Leow and his family.

That being said, I think Pavlik will push for the Williams fight. I've been following Williams pretty close and I think that fight -- if it happens -- can go either way. Williams has the superior footwork and natural athleticism, while Pavlik has the big punch. That isn't to say that Pavlik isn't a fine athlete on his own, I just think Williams is a bit better.

It's a fight that has to be made, and after Williams' last fight, I'm sure Kelly is licking his lips with anticipation. We'll see.

Sorry, but I need to correct you on two things....

First, Espino didn't win The Contender, he lost in the first round.

Second, it was Jack Loew's mother that died, not his wife.


Also as a side note, while there are talks in place for Pavlik to fight Martinez in April, I read that Al Haymon, Williams manager, has made an offer for a rematch with Martinez. So it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[Rantcatrat]

If Martinez rematches Williams, is Sturm the only other respectable opponent at 160 for Pavlik?

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

If Martinez rematches Williams, is Sturm the only other respectable opponent at 160 for Pavlik?

Pretty much and Sturm won't fight Pavlik... He's content with his title and defending it in his country. Pavlik would beat Sturm at this juncture of his career. I think the Sturm that beat ODLH is past.