Is Israel a terrorist state?

[Master]

I voted No.

Well wrote and thought out; must have taken you ages to decide.

[Andre]

I voted No.

Well wrote and thought out; must have taken you ages to decide.

Boxing Gorilla

Banana republic.

[ono]

Kurds are an ethnic group, not a religious minority. But the Sunni/Shia divide can be seen as no more divisive in the religion than that of Catholicism/Protestants.

I mean seriously Lyle, that is such a ridiculous post, words fail me. Nice way to generalize the beliefs of 1.57 billion people

...and the majority of Kurds are Muslim but point taken how about Sufism?

The divide is a lot bigger than Catholics and Protestants....I don't recall Catholics and Protestants bombing each others places of worship or EVER suicide bombing anyone.

A martyr in Christianity is a passive thing, it's a person that puts their faith in God and Jesus and allows an event (usually ending in their death) to happen....they don't go out and fucking murder people.

When I hear/see the majority of Muslims acting with some sense of perspective and some grasp on reality then maybe I'll change my stance but for right now either someone comes straight out and says "I'm a muslim and I'm 100% opposed to the radicals" or I'm going to stereotype the fuck out of them because if you're a participant in that religion and you don't adamantly stand up and shout at the top of your lungs that what the radicals do is wrong then you're either #1 One of them or #2 an enabler which is just as bad.

If my view seems just a tad offensive then tough fucking shit, I don't agree with radical Christians, I don't share the beliefs of those people that bomb abortion centers.....sure I'm not 100% pro abortion but they don't need to be bombed.

What a load of shite.

If the media made a big deal out of white people being Paedophiles would you stand on a street corner and declare your innocence?

Secondly where the hell are you going to see a report on 'Muslims acting with common sense?'

How's that news?

Plenty of Muslims condemn what the extremists do, only problem is, that's unlikely to make front page news in countries who are waging a war against 'brown people'

Steroetyping is a dangerous thing.

If you want to talk about terrorism and Islam, it's also fair to talk about the fact that throughout Europe in 2007, only 4 out of 498 documented terror attacks had any links to Islam. Strange how we hear very little on the 494 other planned attacks.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

We invade Iraq and we invade Afghanistan? And yet Israel still does as Israel wants? Don't you love hypocrisy?

Sorry to be ultra cynical here, but Israel does what it does with out any question because the Nations who have the most power to ask, won't be bothering to do so anytime soon.

America & Russia ain't particularly Jewish nations... Nor do the both have an almost inherent tendency to 'engage' Muslim nations.

Here's a quote from wikipedia i just found:
Most religions present in Russia are ethnic-based. Expectedly, their prevalence changes as their respective ethnic groups grow or shrink. The most prominent example of this is Judaism -- the number of ethnic Jews in Russia shrunk by more than a factor of 10 since mid-20th century.

If i were to be specific, i'd say around.... 1948?

[Nameless]

We invade Iraq and we invade Afghanistan? And yet Israel still does as Israel wants? Don't you love hypocrisy?

Sorry to be ultra cynical here, but Israel does what it does with out any question because the Nations who have the most power to ask, won't be bothering to do so anytime soon.

America & Russia ain't particularly Jewish nations... Nor do the both have an almost inherent tendency to 'engage' Muslim nations.

Here's a quote from wikipedia i just found:
Most religions present in Russia are ethnic-based. Expectedly, their prevalence changes as their respective ethnic groups grow or shrink. The most prominent example of this is Judaism -- the number of ethnic Jews in Russia shrunk by more than a factor of 10 since mid-20th century.

If i were to be specific, i'd say around.... 1948?

You're too cynical for that discussion. Go continue to plot the demise of christmas 2010

[JazMerkin]

...and the majority of Kurds are Muslim but point taken how about Sufism?

Do you know ANYTHING about Sufism?? It's about the most peaceful belief there is. If you can find me a single Sufi terrorist from the past century I'll give you it, but you won't & can't. Yes, the majority of Kurds might be Muslim, but going off that argument than Christianity has a problem because the US & UK bombed Serbia. Hey they're all mostly Christian.

The divide is a lot bigger than Catholics and Protestants....I don't recall Catholics and Protestants bombing each others places of worship or EVER suicide bombing anyone.

So your problem isn't with bombing, it's with suicide bombing?

Damn, if only Al-Qaeda knew that if they just planted bombs rather than strapped them to themselves, they'd be alright in your book. Bombing kills people, the bomber taking his own life with it doesn't make it any worse.

Oh & read this for all the info on how Catholics & Protestants never bomb each others' places of worship

CAIN: CSC: Report: Political Rituals: Loyalist Parades in Portadown, chapter 3

A martyr in Christianity is a passive thing, it's a person that puts their faith in God and Jesus and allows an event (usually ending in their death) to happen....they don't go out and fucking murder people.

Most Muslims don't consider these lunatics martyrs, they see them as the murdering shits they are. But let's face it we in the West often make martyrs of those who kill other people. Look at how we venerate our soldiers. I'm not saying whether that is right or wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that we do it, as do other cultures. It is not in Islamic scripture that a killer is a martyr & a hero, it says quite the opposite, although you'd know that if you were to read the Quran or some kind of informed literature regarding the religion.

When I hear/see the majority of Muslims acting with some sense of perspective and some grasp on reality then maybe I'll change my stance but for right now either someone comes straight out and says "I'm a muslim and I'm 100% opposed to the radicals" or I'm going to stereotype the fuck out of them because if you're a participant in that religion and you don't adamantly stand up and shout at the top of your lungs that what the radicals do is wrong then you're either #1 One of them or #2 an enabler which is just as bad.

How many Muslims do you actually know Lyle?? I know quite a lot & of those I've known throughout my life, I'd say the vast majority, let's say 95%, have views that are more hardline on the subject than my own. Most Muslims do come out & say that but amazingly Fox News isn't broadcasting press conferences for Hamed from Bradford, Zahra from Stepney or Ali from Birmingham. They feel the same, but they also are not required to make it their sole duty in life to keep demonstrating how anti-Islamist they are. As a Christian, do you spend your whole time 'adamantly standing up and shouting at the top of your lungs' that what pro-life bombers do is wrong. I mean like all the time or do you just mention it in passing conversation. Why should it be different for them? Why should their lives be defined by what a few nutjobs who they've nothing in common with save a very vague belief in aspects of the same religion?

If my view seems just a tad offensive then tough fucking shit, I don't agree with radical Christians, I don't share the beliefs of those people that bomb abortion centers.....sure I'm not 100% pro abortion but they don't need to be bombed.

How very noble of you. Your views don't offend me, they just show me that you're largely ignorant on the subject.

Notes above Lyle

[JazMerkin]

Israel is a proud holy nation that has been subjected to ridiculous accusations over the years that time and time again prove to be completely dumbfounded

Like most of the conflict throughout the world right now islam is guilty for failing to understand and abide to the laws that the rest of the world outside of its perimeter abide too.

If the religion continues going down the dark road is it now heading it will not be long before we enter another idealogical war

I've missed you Hammer. That post is just all-round brilliance. Is this the kind of 'idealogical' war we're headed to??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnT8Ubogdog

I've been wanting to use a South Park video as a reference for months, finally found a video short enough

your not related to darkus howe are you merkin??

Palestine is a state run by terrorists. They deserve no sympathy whatsoever and they have blood on their hands for every single israeli man/woman/childs death

the same does not apply the other way around!!

No, I'm not related to Darcus Howe, Hammer, I'm more likely to be related to you than him

Wow, you're understanding of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is so informed & eloquent

So let me get this right, the lives of Israelis are worth more than that of Palestinians?

[Kirkland Laing]

The Palestinians were never handed anything that remotely resembled a state. Barak couldn't even make any public offer to Israel because the nutjob religious/settler parties in his governing coalition would have collapsed the government.

And the Holocaust was a terrible thing but that doesn't then justify a further wrong in giving somebody else's land to Jews to start their own state.

The Jewish fortunes are behind most of our largest businesses I imagine America is the same and most of the owners live here and are welcome.

The largest businesses of the Western world are ran on energy and need a foothold in the East anyway, what better way for the west to infiltrate the East but to hand over to their richest merchants land from the occupiers?

These are smart men who play with normal peoples emotional states for larger reasons that eventually pay off for themselves and their ways; the whole thing went exactly to their plan.

Now some of the surrounding areas are kicking up over control of that old power source that indirectly fuels the world markets, be interesting if the surrounding countries and states get a majority of the % in oil control above Americas and see who sides with who and who ends up with their hand firmly on the business worlds controls.

Or will nth Korea, China and Iran divide us all up.

The old "Jewish Fortunes" argument. Wow. You are so misinformed. They were handed the foundation of a perfectly viable state. The only "settlements" that would remain were basically suburbs of Jerusalem. It wasn't perfect, but it was a great start, and the PA and Arafat spit in the face of everyone trying to find a peaceful solution.

But Jews control the money and make passover matzo with the blood of Arab children, right, Mr Farakan?? Yeah, Jewish money has more influence than Arab oil fortunes. For sure.

The Palestinians have gotten the shaft, for sure, but they have been screwed and exploited by their Arab brothers at every opportunity. Fact. Have the Israelis handled every situation perfectly? No. But Arab leadership is just as responsible for their hardship. Fact. Bottom line.

Andre, you are talking the same anti-semitic myths that have been the basis for Jew-hating for 1000 years. Classic.

Israel has never tried to find a peaceful solution to the problem, quite the opposite in fact. No Israeli government is capable of making any kind of good-faith peace offer as the balance of power in Israel is always held by extremist religious parties who have the power to collapse any government at any time. Currently Netanyahu can't even order a freeze on settlement building on Palestinian land because if he does it's the end of his government.

[Cortez The Killer]

Palestine is a state run by terrorists. They deserve no sympathy whatsoever and they have blood on their hands for every single israeli man/woman/childs death

the same does not apply the other way around!!

BS! For every Israeli that a Palestinian injures with a rock, 10 Palestinian women and children are killed by a rocket shot from an israeli helicopter.

Israel keeps taking more land, israel is a modern country that perpetuates that Palestine must remain a 3rd world country...etc etc

Israel has all the guns, all the power, and commits more blatant human right atrocities than any "modern" country should have any right getting away with.

[Scrap]

The Bottom line is who runs America

[El Kabong]

I was just making a comment on the "sectarian violence" which MAINLY occurs with the Sunni and Shia but others are involved.

My problem is with all kinds of violence, a Christian martyr doesn't KILL anyone, they just accept their own fate if that single idea was common in Islam then the world would be a better place. The IRA vs Northern Ireland was more a political fight than religious.

I know quite a few muslims and they may feel the same as your friends BUT they don't have a stage or an audience. As for me vs the "Turbo Christians" I don't have an audience or stage either....unless you know anyone

[RozzySean]

The Jewish fortunes are behind most of our largest businesses I imagine America is the same and most of the owners live here and are welcome.

The largest businesses of the Western world are ran on energy and need a foothold in the East anyway, what better way for the west to infiltrate the East but to hand over to their richest merchants land from the occupiers?

These are smart men who play with normal peoples emotional states for larger reasons that eventually pay off for themselves and their ways; the whole thing went exactly to their plan.

Now some of the surrounding areas are kicking up over control of that old power source that indirectly fuels the world markets, be interesting if the surrounding countries and states get a majority of the % in oil control above Americas and see who sides with who and who ends up with their hand firmly on the business worlds controls.

Or will nth Korea, China and Iran divide us all up.

The old "Jewish Fortunes" argument. Wow. You are so misinformed. They were handed the foundation of a perfectly viable state. The only "settlements" that would remain were basically suburbs of Jerusalem. It wasn't perfect, but it was a great start, and the PA and Arafat spit in the face of everyone trying to find a peaceful solution.

But Jews control the money and make passover matzo with the blood of Arab children, right, Mr Farakan?? Yeah, Jewish money has more influence than Arab oil fortunes. For sure.

The Palestinians have gotten the shaft, for sure, but they have been screwed and exploited by their Arab brothers at every opportunity. Fact. Have the Israelis handled every situation perfectly? No. But Arab leadership is just as responsible for their hardship. Fact. Bottom line.

Andre, you are talking the same anti-semitic myths that have been the basis for Jew-hating for 1000 years. Classic.

Israel has never tried to find a peaceful solution to the problem, quite the opposite in fact. No Israeli government is capable of making any kind of good-faith peace offer as the balance of power in Israel is always held by extremist religious parties who have the power to collapse any government at any time. Currently Netanyahu can't even order a freeze on settlement building on Palestinian land because if he does it's the end of his government.

Wrong. Barak and Rabin both tried to find peaceful solutions. Labour governments have be formed without getting in bed with Shas or the other right wing parties. Both of those PMs have supported two state solutions. The other side doesn't believe Israel should exist as a a state at all. Yes, Bibi is dependent on far right to keep his government together, but a signficant reason why Bibi was able to draw together a coalition is that so many Israeli peaceniks jumped ship because it became clear that the other side wasn't interested in peace.

I've lived there. I've broken bread with both ultra-orthodox Jews and ordinary Palestinians. The settlements are not the real issue. It's all about Jerusalem's sovereignty, "the right of return", and both indirectly and directly, the right of Israel to exist at all. I have a good friend who is an Israeli-Arab. Israel could dismantle every settlement, even the ones that are Jerusalem suburbs at this point. Without giving back full sovereignty of the entire old city of Jersusalem and giving "right of return" the Palestinians have no interest in a peaceful solution. The things Israel would have to give the Palestinians at this point would be the first step of the end of Israel.

[CFH]

This is one of those topics, much like the ever-present left-right debates, in which everyone has already made up their minds about their position and are essentially immoveable on it.

[OumaFan]

Yes and there will still be about 8 more pages. Usually I just post once or twice within the first couple pages and stand back and watch in fascination at the ability of those that are able to talk to a wall for fifteen pages but here I didn't even do that.

[generalbulldog]

I'm not going to get into this debate. But I do notice 1 thing though is that whenever 1 criticizes Israel's actions, the anti-semitic card is used quite a lot to try and stifle any sort of criticism or debate.

Now carry on.