Should teachers have more power to control unruly students?

[El Kabong]

There are a couple problems with the system

#1 Teachers need to be taught how to handly unruly kids. Most of the teachers are women and no offense to them but they are more used to being nurturing and supportive and hell most teachers are kids themselves when they start out, they need to have the cojones to COMMAND discipline rather than ask for it.

#2 Parents take shit too personal, they are told "Your child was acting up in class" and they hear "I picked out your kid for being bad because I don't like you"....hey parents, maybe your kids are fuck ups!!! And even if they aren't to insert discipline in your own home you should discipline them just based on someone else telling you. The reason the parenting system has fallen apart is because discipline takes time and effort and parents are too tired, self centered, or lack the intrest to follow through.

#3 Kids are babied too often and too long and it is the job of the child to test boundries and limitations, they don't always do it with malice but they ALWAYS need to be disciplined or else they will find loopholes and get their way, that's what they are programed to do from birth.

[Andre]

I love parent and teacher interviews, we have an art teacher thats shitfaced the whole time even at work and does as little as he can.

I asked him what projects he had in place for the kids next year and the silence was long and golden,Im saying "so what plans have you made so far"? my misses is kicking me under the table; fuk him.

We have another who hits the pubs and tries to pick up young women he also surfs with us we have fun with him too,he has two personalities from smoking to much gunja as well and is on meds and now only teaches part time (becuase its a natual disorder from stress.) ( bulshit it is) he went overseas with my mates and flipped right out on a boat cause theres no gunja on board ,they had to tie him up, take him to the indonesian consulate and his dad came and got him. He is still in charge of kids!

We have others who are bitter divorcees and hate children and still choose the job.

Others are just great and so natural they are friends with us and our kids but we get to hear everything ,theres a real mix in there and no controls once they are in they are in, unless they do something highly illeagal.

There should be random drug tests that would sort out many of them.They would have to leave their lifestyle behind or quit the job.I know four local ones who would have to choose.

Others are straight and great but really a few out of the hundred or so good ones also are straight but need physiological evaluating.One sits in tears in the corner and nice kids including my daughter deal with her stuff with her!

[RozzySean]

This is what I do for a living.

I teach the unruly students that nobody else can teach and I've been in "behavioral"/"alternative" education for almost a decade. I've seen things done right and things done wrong. I'm fortunate to be part of a team which developed an extremely effect program at my middle school (grades 7 and 8, or ages 12-15 for those unfamiliar) This is a great question, and there have been a lot of great responses. I figured that I should give my $.02.

In my school, we only put our hands on a student if they are at risk of harming themselves or others, after all other methods have failed. However, we have school police officer, and there is a criminal charge of "disrupting school assembly." Every year, I have a few students leave in a cruiser. If you are getting into fights regularly, you will be charged, guaranteed. Court involvement is very important. The huge explosive displays stop and fighting is dramatically reduced.

You need a carrot and a stick. You create a situation where the student benefits from good choices and suffer with bad choices. That's what happens when they are raised by good parents. If the parents fail, we get stuck picking up the slack. This is the reality. Starting at the top, schools need to recognize this and learn how to do things differently - cooperative disciple, school climate, mentoring, relationship building, high standards of academics and behavior, appropriate support AND firm consequences that matter.

Clearly, teachers should have the power and support to make sure the classroom is an environment where kids can learn. They can't learn in chaos or if the feel unsafe. The real question is this: how can give teachers the tools to run a class effectively. You need to stop the problems before they get to point of threats, swearing, shouting, refusing to leave, etc.

I could write a thesis on this, but here is one simple example of a different approach.

Take the time to understand the behavior, and don't wait until it has escalated.

What is the student gaining from acting out? What is the goal? There is always a reason. For the chronic troublemakers, there is always some deeper issue. You boils it all down to four goals/catagories.

1. Attention Seeking (peer or adult)
2. Avoidance (of work, of feeling unsafe)
3. Need to be in control
4. Mental health/pure socio-path

Most kids have a primary and a secondary goal. Take the time to figure it out. It takes me about five minutes with most students, but I've been at it a while. Once you know what the students is trying to achieve with the behavior, you use different strategies and techniques designed to help and manage students who have those needs/goals.

Once teachers have the tools and administrators are doing their jobs properly, you won't have to worry nearly as much about "controlling" the students. Actually, understanding that you CAN'T control them is the first step to getting them to act the way you want them to act.

[OumaFan]

I remember my mom talking to me about going into that teach america program and ugh, not for me. I admire grade school/high school teachers cause I wouldn't want to deal with that shit.

I will probably end up teaching at a college which I can deal with. Even then I find myself kind of old fashioned in the sense of being annoyed by people that actively and for no reason disrespect teachers. Even in college. Here its mainly "passive" stuff. Kids who come into class ten minutes late (or more) EVERY DAY. It bugs me. Students that will talk in class, that start packing up and making loud noises zipping up bags, etc., etc. five minutes before class is supposed to be out. I have a bad feeling I'll snap on somebody at some point. It just bugs me for some reason. Especially since I don't really have any asshole teachers. I had a few in undergrad, this one fucking douchebag physics teacher who made this girl cry over her staple placement on a paper and liked to discuss his "god" status at NASA.

[Andre]

I remember my mom talking to me about going into that teach america program and ugh, not for me. I admire grade school/high school teachers cause I wouldn't want to deal with that shit.

I will probably end up teaching at a college which I can deal with. Even then I find myself kind of old fashioned in the sense of being annoyed by people that actively and for no reason disrespect teachers. Even in college. Here its mainly "passive" stuff. Kids who come into class ten minutes late (or more) EVERY DAY. It bugs me. Students that will talk in class, that start packing up and making loud noises zipping up bags, etc., etc. five minutes before class is supposed to be out. I have a bad feeling I'll snap on somebody at some point. It just bugs me for some reason. Especially since I don't really have any asshole teachers. I had a few in undergrad, this one fucking douchebag physics teacher who made this girl cry over her staple placement on a paper and liked to discuss his "god" status at NASA.

You get all sorts of teachers,some are great others are right stand over merchants. My first labourer Glen got the boot from school through the deviant work of one teacher. After being in the work force for a year or two he met this prick down the street and said hello to him,just to let it go.
this prick said "OH Glen Fl....... I suppose you're out here on the dole are you?'

Glen didnt even respond just went outside the supermarket and pooped every tyre on the cunts car and went and sat in his mums car waiting for her.

Good learning curve for old teacher eh, he doesnt rule out in the streets.

This man is humble now and pays his respects.

[Gandalf]

I remember my mom talking to me about going into that teach america program and ugh, not for me. I admire grade school/high school teachers cause I wouldn't want to deal with that shit.

I will probably end up teaching at a college which I can deal with. Even then I find myself kind of old fashioned in the sense of being annoyed by people that actively and for no reason disrespect teachers. Even in college. Here its mainly "passive" stuff. Kids who come into class ten minutes late (or more) EVERY DAY. It bugs me. Students that will talk in class, that start packing up and making loud noises zipping up bags, etc., etc. five minutes before class is supposed to be out. I have a bad feeling I'll snap on somebody at some point. It just bugs me for some reason. Especially since I don't really have any asshole teachers. I had a few in undergrad, this one fucking douchebag physics teacher who made this girl cry over her staple placement on a paper and liked to discuss his "god" status at NASA.

You get all sorts of teachers,some are great others are right stand over merchants. My first labourer Glen got the boot from school through the deviant work of one teacher. After being in the work force for a year or two he met this prick down the street and said hello to him,just to let it go.
this prick said "OH Glen Fl....... I suppose you're out here on the dole are you?'

Glen didnt even respond just went outside the supermarket and pooped every tyre on the cunts car and went and sat in his mums car waiting for her.

Good learning curve for old teacher eh, he doesnt rule out in the streets.

This man is humble now and pays his respects.

There is nothing worse than a teacher like that. The ego needs to be kept outside the classroom door. And in the streets too in this instance!

[Andre]

We had one here that went from being a male to a female, that tested out the system a touch. Stayed on for a year or so then got shifted becuase she wanted them to act in a sort of R rated drama she had written and they jumped on her.
tits I dont know.

[Spicoli]

Too many kids raising kids today and parents wanting to 'make agreements' and be friends with their children more than whats right.Tell them what needs to be said,not what makes them feel warm and fuzzy.Tell me my Father wanted 'to talk' when I knew I did wrong and I'll show you a kid that sat the fook straight up REAL quick.Too many rely on Teachers to raise them.Teachers get payed crap wages to begin with.

[Andre]

Sorry Miles I flipped off on an anti teacher tangent.

We know some really great ones too, ones that have been there for all the right occasions and chosen to be friends to our daughters even out of school.