Mike Tyson v Sonny Liston

[ross]

No fucking way Tyson had a better chin than Ali. Ali got dropped yes but he always got up. Did Tyson ever get up to go on and win? Tyson would have never got up from that left hook from Frazier.

Ali got dropped a few times, Mike got dropped after taking rounds and rounds of clean big shots, Holyfield couldnt finish Mike on his back and Lewis had to push him down all the losses including Douglas came when anyone could see he wasnt fighting the same anymore.

When tyson fought Holyfield he had a longer absence from boxing than Ali did, he wasnt the same fighter and he never came under suspiscion of taking HGH like Holyfield either.

Mike should be judged on what he did up to Spinks when he was doing everything right, rather like people saying Ali shoulkd be judged on what he was like before he went in exile.

Unlike Ali, Mike showed no weakness, he wasnt dropped by nobodys or gifted decisions, he was a force that ripped through a division, Alis best win was supposed to be against Williams who was mid 30's and had 5 losses and a draw, hardly awe ispiring opposition

As for quality of opposition Tyson fought and beat 3 undefeated fighters as a defending and unifying champion, Tony Tucker, Tyrell Biggs and Michael Spinks.

When Ali was in his supposed prime, he didnt defend agianst 1 undefeated fighter, in fact as champion the first undefeated fighter Ali fought beat him (Joe Frazier) then he managed to beat the second (Foreman) then got beat by the Third (Spinks)

OK then if Tyson's chin is so much better, tell me someone who's punches he stood upto that hit as hard as Foreman, Frazier or Liston?

Also what does being undefeated matter?? Ruslan Chagaev was undefeated when he fought Wlad. Did that make him a better fighter than Wlad? No.

And you talk about Tyson only falling after taking a shit load of punishment? Do you really think he could have withstood the punishment that was being dished out in the Thriller in Manilla or the Rumble?? I don't.

Tyson's best victory for me was against an "OLD" Larry Holmes and Spinks for me means nothing. Yes Michael Spinks was a great Light Heavy but at HW he was never going to be big enough. Ali destroyed a better LHW in Bob Foster.

Facing undefeated title challengers does mean alot, it means as a champion Mike was facing people who were too goo for anyone else to beat, instead of going through all the used up hasbeens, obviously Klitschko proved he was better than that undefeated fighter, he showed some class by fightng a top tier opponent, if they havent lost yet there is every chance they could be good enough to beat the champ.

As for Foster, Spinks fought and beat Holmes, Foster went up and was dropped like a yo yo, the bloke either didnt have a very good chin or defence Spinks had 4 successfull fights at heavy and lost to Tyson in his 5th, Foster got anhialated by the only 2 world rated heavies he fought.

Also, id say Rudduck, Bruno and Lewis deffinitly hit harder than Frazier and must at least be level with Foreman