Is Israel a terrorist state?

[JazMerkin]

OK Jaz, thanks for your "notes" and all but since you would rather be a condescending asshole than debate this topic like an educated man, I'm going to just give up on this thread.

I don't know what you think about me personally but to assume that I have no muslim friends and to insult me like that....that's uncalled for.

God almighty Lyle, you do know how to throw a strop don't you??

I don't think you're a racist or a bigot or any of the things you like to think you're being accused of, I didn't assume you had no Muslim friends, but surely if you do you have asked their opinion on this topic?

But, the fact is you're saying things as fact, when you're not that educated on the topic. I am. Do you know why you never see me commenting with authority on things like the US economy? Because I'm not informed enough about it, I'm certainly not as informed on it as you are. But on the topic of Northern Ireland/Iraq & the roots of their conflict, I am informed as it was the major part of my Politics degree looking at international conflict.

It would be nice to have a debate with you where you were maybe honest & said 'I don't know enough about that to comment' rather than posted poorly-informed opinions & throw your toys out of the pram when someone disagrees with you.

I've made it clear in the past that I actually think you're a pretty cool guy even if we differ politically, but posting stuff that isn't well-informed for the sake of it is very LeftyLee-ish (yes I just used Lefty as an adjective). You know you can post better than that. If you'd answer my questions fine, if you don't want to cool. But as you always tell me, you don't care if you offend me, so the same goes the other way.

To be honest mate;

i'd like to see Muslims openly marching in the streets with placards with their Mullahs and priests or whatever, in the lead 'Saying terrorists get out of our Religion! go make your own one, you murder ,we dont. Stop hiding amongst us, get out. You are against the compassion of Allah and his people.

I'd like to Christians marching too saying we are your brothers and sisters sorry we have killed some of you in bomb drops and kept you out of the loop in world affairs. Our leaders are quite evil like that, sorry!

Moderate Muslims March in Phoenix :: Daniel Pipes

Indian Muslims unite against terror, hold peace march

BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Glasgow and West | Hundreds attend anti-terror rally

Muslims against Terrorism

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Satisfied to a point Andre?

Anyway, I do understand how you feel, this article though gives a pretty good account of how most Muslims feel about having to march against terrorists.

altmuslim - Opposing terrorism: What would marches against extremism achieve?

[El Kabong]

Jaz, I'm done with the argument, sure I could take my time explain my points a bit more carefully so that you understand where I'm coming from but after this...

"Lyle, are they friends or are they simply people who serve you food at a restaraunt?"

I'm through debating with you

[Andre]

To be honest mate;

i'd like to see Muslims openly marching in the streets with placards with their Mullahs and priests or whatever, in the lead 'Saying terrorists get out of our Religion! go make your own one, you murder ,we dont. Stop hiding amongst us, get out. You are against the compassion of Allah and his people.

I'd like to Christians marching too saying we are your brothers and sisters sorry we have killed some of you in bomb drops and kept you out of the loop in world affairs. Our leaders are quite evil like that, sorry!

Moderate Muslims March in Phoenix :: Daniel Pipes

Indian Muslims unite against terror, hold peace march

BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Glasgow and West | Hundreds attend anti-terror rally

Muslims against Terrorism

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Satisfied to a point Andre?

Anyway, I do understand how you feel, this article though gives a pretty good account of how most Muslims feel about having to march against terrorists.

altmuslim - Opposing terrorism: What would marches against extremism achieve?[/quote]


Yep thankyou ..burppp!

They havent done that out here from what I know!

Good on them.The largest mosque in Melbourne I think is in Carlton.They have had some trouble with the leader of that one (teaching the naughty way to educate us demons from the west). I think many are scared of his reach.

[Rantcatrat]

I voted "No." The title/basis of this thread is ridiculous. Not even worth responding to.

I've come to conclude that the Israeli/Palestinian issue will never be solved. We'll be reading about it when we're old men. Palestinians and Israeli's will never embrace the examples set forth by MLK and Ghandi as they should.

[Gandalf]

I voted "No." The title/basis of this thread is ridiculous. Not even worth responding to.

I've come to conclude that the Israeli/Palestinian issue will never be solved. We'll be reading about it when we're old men. Palestinians and Israeli's will never embrace the examples set forth by MLK and Ghandi as they should.

Israel's threat to world peace is a very serious issue and the way they go about asserting their 'authority' is by acting in a way that might be quite easily described as state sponsored terrorism. Of course, it isn't just Israel. Our own nations are guilty of the most heinous crimes against humanity too.

[Gandalf]

My argument always stems back to the issue of Israel's creation. If I owned some land and the International community then took away my land and cast me aside because they wanted to give it to a preferred group of people, I can guarantee you that I would try and forcibly remove those bastards. If that means killing them and that is what it has to come down to then so be it. I can understand the Palestinian plight and would even go as far as to say I have some empathy with suicide bombers and people willing to give up their lives for the cause. Israel has no legitimate reason for existence in my eyes. It's a phony state set up by imperialistic forces.

It is there though, and that is a huge shame. It's like a huge sore on the face of the world. I would quite like to pick it off and allow the Palestinians to inhabit fresh new skin. Now if the Palestinians would be so kind as to allow Jews to live within the borders then that would be very nice and they should give them equal rights too. But Israel is there and they will continue to get away with their occupation, settlement building and persecution of the very people who most belong there.

It's beyond me how anyone can defend a rogue state like that.

[generalbulldog]

My argument always stems back to the issue of Israel's creation. If I owned some land and the International community then took away my land and cast me aside because they wanted to give it to a preferred group of people, I can guarantee you that I would try and forcibly remove those bastards. If that means killing them and that is what it has to come down to then so be it. I can understand the Palestinian plight and would even go as far as to say I have some empathy with suicide bombers and people willing to give up their lives for the cause. Israel has no legitimate reason for existence in my eyes. It's a phony state set up by imperialistic forces.

It is there though, and that is a huge shame. It's like a huge sore on the face of the world. I would quite like to pick it off and allow the Palestinians to inhabit fresh new skin. Now if the Palestinians would be so kind as to allow Jews to live within the borders then that would be very nice and they should give them equal rights too. But Israel is there and they will continue to get away with their occupation, settlement building and persecution of the very people who most belong there.

It's beyond me how anyone can defend a rogue state like that.

You know people will call you anti-semitic for your little rant right?
People love to play that card to stifle any criticism of this illegitimate nation.

On a serious note, what do you think is a feasible solution? It's been in existence for more than 60 years. The Jews aren't going to give back the land and they have their sugar daddy the US backing them up.

More often than not, might makes right. And that has always been a part of human history including nation states. Is it right? Of course not, but that's always been the case.

[Gandalf]

My argument always stems back to the issue of Israel's creation. If I owned some land and the International community then took away my land and cast me aside because they wanted to give it to a preferred group of people, I can guarantee you that I would try and forcibly remove those bastards. If that means killing them and that is what it has to come down to then so be it. I can understand the Palestinian plight and would even go as far as to say I have some empathy with suicide bombers and people willing to give up their lives for the cause. Israel has no legitimate reason for existence in my eyes. It's a phony state set up by imperialistic forces.

It is there though, and that is a huge shame. It's like a huge sore on the face of the world. I would quite like to pick it off and allow the Palestinians to inhabit fresh new skin. Now if the Palestinians would be so kind as to allow Jews to live within the borders then that would be very nice and they should give them equal rights too. But Israel is there and they will continue to get away with their occupation, settlement building and persecution of the very people who most belong there.

It's beyond me how anyone can defend a rogue state like that.

You know people will call you anti-semitic for your little rant right?
People love to play that card to stifle any criticism of this illegitimate nation.

On a serious note, what do you think is a feasible solution? It's been in existence for more than 60 years. The Jews aren't going to give back the land and they have their sugar daddy the US backing them up.

More often than not, might makes right. And that has always been a part of human history including nation states. Is it right? Of course not, but that's always been the case.

Yeah, I know, but I don't really care.

My favourite Jew would have to be Chomsky and I really like his views when it comes to Israel/Palestine. A two state solution is probably the only solution now. It's about the Palestinians settling for far less than in an ideal situation, but when the imperialists are blinkered and immoral, it's kind of difficult to get a completely fair settlement. I think the Geneva accord proposals which are based somewhat on 1967 border principles is probably the most reasonable way of settling it all. Neither party would be happy (especially the Israeli's), but it's as reasonable as one could expect. My honest feelings are that Israel should be grateful for whatever they get, because they don't really deserve anything. But that's just me being 'anti-semitic'.

[Gandalf]

Actually, I would care if someone thought I was anti semitic because I'm obviously not. I hardly march up and down ranting about the Jews. My issue is always with injustice and in this situation see a strong element of injustice. I loath the Israeli state as it currently exists, but that doesn't mean I hate the vast bulk of its citizens who are probably very fair people. Unfortunately, none of us have any real control over our political elites.

[Gandalf]

I was watching this video earlier this afternoon and it made for frustrating viewing. You try telling any of these people that Israel is not a terrorist state. They occupy land that isn't their own and then they butcher anyone that they percieve might be an independant thinking human being. Of course there wil be resistance against illegal occupation. Israel is like apartheid South Africa, in that it is a nation that no others should touch. It's criminal that the US has condoned these crimes for so many years and Israel continues to get away with crimes against humanity. I would love to get out there and see it all for myself one of these days. I would dearly love to spit on an Israeli soldier, how can those people do the job they do? Disgusting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5_4F45moNE

[JazMerkin]

Jaz, I'm done with the argument, sure I could take my time explain my points a bit more carefully so that you understand where I'm coming from but after this...

"Lyle, are they friends or are they simply people who serve you food at a restaraunt?"

I'm through debating with you

You know Lyle, for someone who hates the likes of Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson, you sure do get as easily offended as they do. Try to lighten up & see a bit of humour, rather than taking everything in the most offensive possible way.

My argument always stems back to the issue of Israel's creation. If I owned some land and the International community then took away my land and cast me aside because they wanted to give it to a preferred group of people, I can guarantee you that I would try and forcibly remove those bastards. If that means killing them and that is what it has to come down to then so be it. I can understand the Palestinian plight and would even go as far as to say I have some empathy with suicide bombers and people willing to give up their lives for the cause. Israel has no legitimate reason for existence in my eyes. It's a phony state set up by imperialistic forces.

It is there though, and that is a huge shame. It's like a huge sore on the face of the world. I would quite like to pick it off and allow the Palestinians to inhabit fresh new skin. Now if the Palestinians would be so kind as to allow Jews to live within the borders then that would be very nice and they should give them equal rights too. But Israel is there and they will continue to get away with their occupation, settlement building and persecution of the very people who most belong there.

It's beyond me how anyone can defend a rogue state like that

Miles, you should read some of David Rose's stuff. He's a Jewish journalist, who has some great stuff regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it's definitely worth looking up his stuff.

Also it's worth reading up on the case of Thomas Hurndall to see just how vicious the Israeli state can get when outsiders try to 'threaten' it.

[mrbig1]

I vote yes!!!

[Gandalf]

There was a documentary on BBC world last night looking at the way Israel is trying to restrict and control Palestinians living in Jerusalem. I thought it was quite well done on the whole and gave a balanced picture. It showed the Israeli side of the argument, but obviously you side more with the plight of the Palestinians. You see Hyundai bulldozers knocking down Palestinian homes and ignoring the Jewish homes. Many of these houses were not built with a permit whence the reason for demolition, but they focus mainly on the Palestinian homes. They also highlighted how Palestinians would try to apply for building permission, but would always be turned away by the authorities. Now if you can't build legally then what other choice do you have? You have to live illegally, you can't just sleep under the open skies.

There was also a Jewish couple with 5 children and number 6 on the way. They were American citizens, but wanted to return to their 'homeland'. They live with CCTV and Israeli security forces guarding their home. I looked at the husband and thought, "you are one arrogant son of a bitch". He is an American, he should have a home in America and yet he goes to Israel with his wife and kids, when really a Palestinian family with nothing should be living in his home.

[mrbig1]

There was a documentary on BBC world last night looking at the way Israel is trying to restrict and control Palestinians living in Jerusalem. I thought it was quite well done on the whole and gave a balanced picture. It showed the Israeli side of the argument, but obviously you side more with the plight of the Palestinians. You see Hyundai bulldozers knocking down Palestinian homes and ignoring the Jewish homes. Many of these houses were not built with a permit whence the reason for demolition, but they focus mainly on the Palestinian homes. They also highlighted how Palestinians would try to apply for building permission, but would always be turned away by the authorities. Now if you can't build legally then what other choice do you have? You have to live illegally, you can't just sleep under the open skies.

There was also a Jewish couple with 5 children and number 6 on the way. They were American citizens, but wanted to return to their 'homeland'. They live with CCTV and Israeli security forces guarding their home. I looked at the husband and thought, "you are one arrogant son of a bitch". He is an American, he should have a home in America and yet he goes to Israel with his wife and kids, when really a Palestinian family with nothing should be living in his home.

Well said Sir. Palestinian and Jews lived in peace for over a 1,000 years before the European Jews showed up. The Palestinian never knew what a Terrorist was before 1948.

[Andre]

My argument always stems back to the issue of Israel's creation. If I owned some land and the International community then took away my land and cast me aside because they wanted to give it to a preferred group of people, I can guarantee you that I would try and forcibly remove those bastards. If that means killing them and that is what it has to come down to then so be it. I can understand the Palestinian plight and would even go as far as to say I have some empathy with suicide bombers and people willing to give up their lives for the cause. Israel has no legitimate reason for existence in my eyes. It's a phony state set up by imperialistic forces.

It is there though, and that is a huge shame. It's like a huge sore on the face of the world. I would quite like to pick it off and allow the Palestinians to inhabit fresh new skin. Now if the Palestinians would be so kind as to allow Jews to live within the borders then that would be very nice and they should give them equal rights too. But Israel is there and they will continue to get away with their occupation, settlement building and persecution of the very people who most belong there.

It's beyond me how anyone can defend a rogue state like that.

You know people will call you anti-semitic for your little rant right?
People love to play that card to stifle any criticism of this illegitimate nation.

On a serious note, what do you think is a feasible solution? It's been in existence for more than 60 years. The Jews aren't going to give back the land and they have their sugar daddy the US backing them up.

More often than not, might makes right. And that has always been a part of human history including nation states. Is it right? Of course not, but that's always been the case.

Yeah, I know, but I don't really care.

My favourite Jew would have to be Chomsky and I really like his views when it comes to Israel/Palestine. A two state solution is probably the only solution now. It's about the Palestinians settling for far less than in an ideal situation, but when the imperialists are blinkered and immoral, it's kind of difficult to get a completely fair settlement. I think the Geneva accord proposals which are based somewhat on 1967 border principles is probably the most reasonable way of settling it all. Neither party would be happy (especially the Israeli's), but it's as reasonable as one could expect. My honest feelings are that Israel should be grateful for whatever they get, because they don't really deserve anything. But that's just me being 'anti-semitic'.

My favorite Jew is George Costanza.

lol, That scene where he plays the Nazi leader to get a free ride in a limo from the airport. hahaha