Pacquiao talking bollox....

[Kirkland Laing]

he knows Manny is superstitious.

That's an old excuse, it's no longer operative. That was the excuse after he's scared of needles and before he gets weakened by blood tests. Right now he didn't take the test because of some Phillipino pride thing that you wouldn't understand because you're not Phillipino.

Okay, so we'll take an exercise based on your premise. Let's say Manny is dirty, why would he agree to blood test up to 30 days before, urine tests up to fight time and then another blood test immediately following? Makes no sense. Why would Manny agree to anything beyond what is mandated by the boxing authorities/athletic commissions?

Why should Floyd Mayweather dictate the terms of drug testing or anything for that matter? Even if you don't buy that Manny could be superstitious why should he let PBF dictate the terms of anything? Manny has agreed to the most stringent drug testing in the history of boxing and that's not good enough for Floyd so screw it...Manny has earned the title of ATG and doesn't need to do anything that PBF tells him to.

Or maybe pbf's intentions all along were to push Manny's button's enough to prevent a fight, giving PBF an out while and saving his undefeated record?

Why should Floyd agree to eight ounce gloves or a ten million dollar a pound fine for being overweight at the weigh-in? You can negotiate anything you want in a fight contract. Manny had the perfect opportunity to flatten all the steroid rumours and win a massive psychological victory over Floyd by just accepting the test but instead made a bunch of bs excuses. He made himself look guilty.

[The Promoter]

That's an old excuse, it's no longer operative. That was the excuse after he's scared of needles and before he gets weakened by blood tests. Right now he didn't take the test because of some Phillipino pride thing that you wouldn't understand because you're not Phillipino.

Okay, so we'll take an exercise based on your premise. Let's say Manny is dirty, why would he agree to blood test up to 30 days before, urine tests up to fight time and then another blood test immediately following? Makes no sense. Why would Manny agree to anything beyond what is mandated by the boxing authorities/athletic commissions?

Why should Floyd Mayweather dictate the terms of drug testing or anything for that matter? Even if you don't buy that Manny could be superstitious why should he let PBF dictate the terms of anything? Manny has agreed to the most stringent drug testing in the history of boxing and that's not good enough for Floyd so screw it...Manny has earned the title of ATG and doesn't need to do anything that PBF tells him to.

Or maybe pbf's intentions all along were to push Manny's button's enough to prevent a fight, giving PBF an out while and saving his undefeated record?

Why should Floyd agree to eight ounce gloves or a ten million dollar a pound fine for being overweight at the weigh-in? You can negotiate anything you want in a fight contract. Manny had the perfect opportunity to flatten all the steroid rumours and win a massive psychological victory over Floyd by just accepting the test but instead made a bunch of bs excuses. He made himself look guilty.

I guess if you don't understand drug testing, steroids or want to believe anything PBF says Manny does look guilty...

[Althugz]

Okay, so we'll take an exercise based on your premise. Let's say Manny is dirty, why would he agree to blood test up to 30 days before, urine tests up to fight time and then another blood test immediately following? Makes no sense. Why would Manny agree to anything beyond what is mandated by the boxing authorities/athletic commissions?

Why should Floyd Mayweather dictate the terms of drug testing or anything for that matter? Even if you don't buy that Manny could be superstitious why should he let PBF dictate the terms of anything? Manny has agreed to the most stringent drug testing in the history of boxing and that's not good enough for Floyd so screw it...Manny has earned the title of ATG and doesn't need to do anything that PBF tells him to.

Or maybe pbf's intentions all along were to push Manny's button's enough to prevent a fight, giving PBF an out while and saving his undefeated record?

Why should Floyd agree to eight ounce gloves or a ten million dollar a pound fine for being overweight at the weigh-in? You can negotiate anything you want in a fight contract. Manny had the perfect opportunity to flatten all the steroid rumours and win a massive psychological victory over Floyd by just accepting the test but instead made a bunch of bs excuses. He made himself look guilty.

I guess if you don't understand drug testing, steroids or want to believe anything PBF says Manny does look guilty...

Wow, you are legit stupid...

You are misinforming people who I hope are not just as foolish as you to believe that you know a damn thing about drug testing and steroids.

I apologise for keeping this thread alive..I certainly feel like I lost some brain cells in doing so but people talking nonsense piss me off.

[The Promoter]

Why should Floyd agree to eight ounce gloves or a ten million dollar a pound fine for being overweight at the weigh-in? You can negotiate anything you want in a fight contract. Manny had the perfect opportunity to flatten all the steroid rumours and win a massive psychological victory over Floyd by just accepting the test but instead made a bunch of bs excuses. He made himself look guilty.

I guess if you don't understand drug testing, steroids or want to believe anything PBF says Manny does look guilty...

Wow, you are legit stupid...

You are misinforming people who I hope are not just as foolish as you to believe that you know a damn thing about drug testing and steroids.

I apologise for keeping this thread alive..I certainly feel like I lost some brain cells in doing so but people talking nonsense piss me off.

Okay genius, explain to me about drug testing you apparently know so much. It's shocking to me how many people on this site like yourself know NOTHING of the science behind what is being discussed yet claim to be an authority. So continue with the name calling but please educate me on how:

Liquid Chromatography Mass Spectrometry (LC/MS/MS)
Gas Chromatography Mass Spectrometry (GC/MS)

Are inferior to blood testing for daily drug testing? Do you think that Manny is using HGH? which anyone in a gym with an IQ over 60 would tell you that it burns fat like crazy and probably not the best substance for someone trying to put weight on. The question at hand is Steroids, which could NEVER get by daily urine tests using the above testing. The test can even be used to detect masking agents. Urine spectrum analysis results could be saved then compared to samples taken over the last 30 days. Aren't you bright enough to realize that masking agents can fool blood tests too? It's only by comparing long term sample and screening for masking agents specifically can conclusions be drawn. By taking a sample 30 days prior (both blood and urine) taking urine during the last 30 days and a blood (and urine) test right after should be fine by anyone's standards (except PBF and you). Now please explain how volunteering for this testing somehow proves Manny is cheating? Please respond and prove how little you know about anything....

[Kirkland Laing]

Okay, so we'll take an exercise based on your premise. Let's say Manny is dirty, why would he agree to blood test up to 30 days before, urine tests up to fight time and then another blood test immediately following? Makes no sense. Why would Manny agree to anything beyond what is mandated by the boxing authorities/athletic commissions?

Why should Floyd Mayweather dictate the terms of drug testing or anything for that matter? Even if you don't buy that Manny could be superstitious why should he let PBF dictate the terms of anything? Manny has agreed to the most stringent drug testing in the history of boxing and that's not good enough for Floyd so screw it...Manny has earned the title of ATG and doesn't need to do anything that PBF tells him to.

Or maybe pbf's intentions all along were to push Manny's button's enough to prevent a fight, giving PBF an out while and saving his undefeated record?

Why should Floyd agree to eight ounce gloves or a ten million dollar a pound fine for being overweight at the weigh-in? You can negotiate anything you want in a fight contract. Manny had the perfect opportunity to flatten all the steroid rumours and win a massive psychological victory over Floyd by just accepting the test but instead made a bunch of bs excuses. He made himself look guilty.

I guess if you don't understand drug testing, steroids or want to believe anything PBF says Manny does look guilty...

The people who do know about drug testing like the head of the USADA, who's forgotten more than you and me put together know about testing, says it's quite possible Manny is a juicer and that scheduled as opposed to random testing is a total waste of time. There are various links to his interviews in the previous threads on this. I'm going to go with the guy who knows what he's talking about on this one.

[The Promoter]

Why should Floyd agree to eight ounce gloves or a ten million dollar a pound fine for being overweight at the weigh-in? You can negotiate anything you want in a fight contract. Manny had the perfect opportunity to flatten all the steroid rumours and win a massive psychological victory over Floyd by just accepting the test but instead made a bunch of bs excuses. He made himself look guilty.

I guess if you don't understand drug testing, steroids or want to believe anything PBF says Manny does look guilty...

The people who do know about drug testing like the head of the USADA, who's forgotten more than you and me put together know about testing, says it's quite possible Manny is a juicer and that scheduled as opposed to random testing is a total waste of time. There are various links to his interviews in the previous threads on this. I'm going to go with the guy who knows what he's talking about on this one.

Absolutely, we agree the USADA is a good testing agency. The USADA refers to what Floyd wants as the "gold standard". Unfortunately, that "gold standard" can test for literally thousands of substances set for by whatever the agency is requesting those tests. The USADA is even applauding PBF's contractual demands for such testing as it will mean even more relevance for them. Here lies the issues; who is going to maintain blood year round for comparative blood doping tests? Who is going to set the standards for hormonal level thresholds or what are banned or controlled substances for boxing? With Steroids, HGH, Narcotics that's an easy answer but Will Xylocaine like PBF uses be illegal? Will testosterone boosters be illegal, Creatine? Does PBF get to dictate what is and isn't illegal? Now, today boxing drug testing is a joke we all can agree to that and the ultimate goal is to have a good standard in place. The testing that I mentioned in earlier posts can basically be done on any genetic material and like any testing you have to target specific substances, and their levels. The DoD uses very stringent test based on the methods I described for urinalysis. Since they are testing Pilots and people with critical and dangerous professions these tests have lower thresholds than even the IOC. As you can see there are alternatives to blood testing beyond what Manny P. feels comfortable with, so why not use these?

DOD Urinalysis (Drug Test) Cutoff Levels)
Drug
Screening Level (Nanograms per milliliter)
Confirmation Level (Nanograms per milliliter)
THC (Marijuana)
50 NG/ML
15 NG/ML
Cocaine
150 NG/ML
100 NG/ML
Opiates:


Morphine
2000 NG/ML
4000 NG/ML
Codeine
2000 NG/ML
2000 NG/ML
Heroin (6 MAM)
300 NG/ML
10 NG/NL
Amphetamines
500 NG/ML
500 NG/ML
Methamphetamine
500 NG/ML
500 NG/ML
MDA/MDMA (Ecstasy)
500 NG/ML
500 NG/ML
Barbiturates (Amobarbital, butalbital, Pentobarbital, Secobarbital)
200 NG/ML
200 NG/ML
PCP
25 NG/ML
25 NG/ML
LSD
.5 NG/ML
0.2 NG/ML

Drug Detection Windows
Drug
Detection Windows
THC (Marijuana)
1-3 Weeks*
Cocaine
2-4 Days
Amphetamines
2 Days
Barbiturates
1-2 Days
Opiates`
1-2 Days
PCP
5-7 Days
LSD
1-2 Days
Steroids
3 Days or Longer**
Notes:
* Longer than 3 weeks is indicative of chronic or heavy use.
** Length of detection determined by type and duration of use.
Information Courtesy of Department of Defense, the United States Navy, and the Manual for Courts-Martial


Don't misunderstand my argument of Manny being clean, he may be dirty for all I know. BUT, PBF's all or nothing approach to this matter is clearly a case of him trying to get into Manny's head more than him trying to do what right for the sport. There are other ways to test athletes even contrary to USADA.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Information Courtesy of Department of Defense, the United States Navy, and the Manual for Courts-Martial

Link please, thank you

[The Promoter]

Information Courtesy of Department of Defense, the United States Navy, and the Manual for Courts-Martial

Link please, thank you

NP...about.com has the best summary with links for further investigation but I included other links as well if you are that bored

DOD (Military) Urinalysis (Drug Test) Program
www.jag.navy.mil/documents/mcm2008.pdf
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/c...df/101001p.pdf
Department of Defense (DOD) Drug Tests

[The Promoter]

I guess if you don't understand drug testing, steroids or want to believe anything PBF says Manny does look guilty...

The people who do know about drug testing like the head of the USADA, who's forgotten more than you and me put together know about testing, says it's quite possible Manny is a juicer and that scheduled as opposed to random testing is a total waste of time. There are various links to his interviews in the previous threads on this. I'm going to go with the guy who knows what he's talking about on this one.

Absolutely, we agree the USADA is a good testing agency. The USADA refers to what Floyd wants as the "gold standard". Unfortunately, that "gold standard" can test for literally thousands of substances set for by whatever the agency is requesting those tests. The USADA is even applauding PBF's contractual demands for such testing as it will mean even more relevance for them. Here lies the issues; who is going to maintain blood year round for comparative blood doping tests? Who is going to set the standards for hormonal level thresholds or what are banned or controlled substances for boxing? With Steroids, HGH, Narcotics that's an easy answer but Will Xylocaine like PBF uses be illegal? Will testosterone boosters be illegal, Creatine? Does PBF get to dictate what is and isn't illegal? Now, today boxing drug testing is a joke we all can agree to that and the ultimate goal is to have a good standard in place. The testing that I mentioned in earlier posts can basically be done on any genetic material and like any testing you have to target specific substances, and their levels. The DoD uses very stringent test based on the methods I described for urinalysis. Since they are testing Pilots and people with critical and dangerous professions these tests have lower thresholds than even the IOC. As you can see there are alternatives to blood testing beyond what Manny P. feels comfortable with, so why not use these?

DOD Urinalysis (Drug Test) Cutoff Levels)
Drug
Screening Level (Nanograms per milliliter)
Confirmation Level (Nanograms per milliliter)
THC (Marijuana)
50 NG/ML
15 NG/ML
Cocaine
150 NG/ML
100 NG/ML
Opiates:


Morphine
2000 NG/ML
4000 NG/ML
Codeine
2000 NG/ML
2000 NG/ML
Heroin (6 MAM)
300 NG/ML
10 NG/NL
Amphetamines
500 NG/ML
500 NG/ML
Methamphetamine
500 NG/ML
500 NG/ML
MDA/MDMA (Ecstasy)
500 NG/ML
500 NG/ML
Barbiturates (Amobarbital, butalbital, Pentobarbital, Secobarbital)
200 NG/ML
200 NG/ML
PCP
25 NG/ML
25 NG/ML
LSD
.5 NG/ML
0.2 NG/ML

Drug Detection Windows
Drug
Detection Windows
THC (Marijuana)
1-3 Weeks*
Cocaine
2-4 Days
Amphetamines
2 Days
Barbiturates
1-2 Days
Opiates`
1-2 Days
PCP
5-7 Days
LSD
1-2 Days
Steroids
3 Days or Longer**
Notes:
* Longer than 3 weeks is indicative of chronic or heavy use.
** Length of detection determined by type and duration of use.
Information Courtesy of Department of Defense, the United States Navy, and the Manual for Courts-Martial


Don't misunderstand my argument of Manny being clean, he may be dirty for all I know. BUT, PBF's all or nothing approach to this matter is clearly a case of him trying to get into Manny's head more than him trying to do what right for the sport. There are other ways to test athletes even contrary to USADA.

Sorry for the previous table mess:

[:::PSL:::]

The people who do know about drug testing like the head of the USADA, who's forgotten more than you and me put together know about testing, says it's quite possible Manny is a juicer and that scheduled as opposed to random testing is a total waste of time. There are various links to his interviews in the previous threads on this. I'm going to go with the guy who knows what he's talking about on this one.

Absolutely, we agree the USADA is a good testing agency. The USADA refers to what Floyd wants as the "gold standard". Unfortunately, that "gold standard" can test for literally thousands of substances set for by whatever the agency is requesting those tests. The USADA is even applauding PBF's contractual demands for such testing as it will mean even more relevance for them. Here lies the issues; who is going to maintain blood year round for comparative blood doping tests? Who is going to set the standards for hormonal level thresholds or what are banned or controlled substances for boxing? With Steroids, HGH, Narcotics that's an easy answer but Will Xylocaine like PBF uses be illegal? Will testosterone boosters be illegal, Creatine? Does PBF get to dictate what is and isn't illegal? Now, today boxing drug testing is a joke we all can agree to that and the ultimate goal is to have a good standard in place. The testing that I mentioned in earlier posts can basically be done on any genetic material and like any testing you have to target specific substances, and their levels. The DoD uses very stringent test based on the methods I described for urinalysis. Since they are testing Pilots and people with critical and dangerous professions these tests have lower thresholds than even the IOC. As you can see there are alternatives to blood testing beyond what Manny P. feels comfortable with, so why not use these?

DOD Urinalysis (Drug Test) Cutoff Levels)
Drug
Screening Level (Nanograms per milliliter)
Confirmation Level (Nanograms per milliliter)
THC (Marijuana)
50 NG/ML
15 NG/ML
Cocaine
150 NG/ML
100 NG/ML
Opiates:


Morphine
2000 NG/ML
4000 NG/ML
Codeine
2000 NG/ML
2000 NG/ML
Heroin (6 MAM)
300 NG/ML
10 NG/NL
Amphetamines
500 NG/ML
500 NG/ML
Methamphetamine
500 NG/ML
500 NG/ML
MDA/MDMA (Ecstasy)
500 NG/ML
500 NG/ML
Barbiturates (Amobarbital, butalbital, Pentobarbital, Secobarbital)
200 NG/ML
200 NG/ML
PCP
25 NG/ML
25 NG/ML
LSD
.5 NG/ML
0.2 NG/ML

Drug Detection Windows
Drug
Detection Windows
THC (Marijuana)
1-3 Weeks*
Cocaine
2-4 Days
Amphetamines
2 Days
Barbiturates
1-2 Days
Opiates`
1-2 Days
PCP
5-7 Days
LSD
1-2 Days
Steroids
3 Days or Longer**
Notes:
* Longer than 3 weeks is indicative of chronic or heavy use.
** Length of detection determined by type and duration of use.
Information Courtesy of Department of Defense, the United States Navy, and the Manual for Courts-Martial


Don't misunderstand my argument of Manny being clean, he may be dirty for all I know. BUT, PBF's all or nothing approach to this matter is clearly a case of him trying to get into Manny's head more than him trying to do what right for the sport. There are other ways to test athletes even contrary to USADA.

Sorry for the previous table mess:

Corey Haim took 'em all at the same time.

[DaxxKahn]

I guess if you don't understand drug testing, steroids or want to believe anything PBF says Manny does look guilty...

The people who do know about drug testing like the head of the USADA, who's forgotten more than you and me put together know about testing, says it's quite possible Manny is a juicer and that scheduled as opposed to random testing is a total waste of time. There are various links to his interviews in the previous threads on this. I'm going to go with the guy who knows what he's talking about on this one.

Absolutely, we agree the USADA is a good testing agency. The USADA refers to what Floyd wants as the "gold standard". Unfortunately, that "gold standard" can test for literally thousands of substances set for by whatever the agency is requesting those tests. The USADA is even applauding PBF's contractual demands for such testing as it will mean even more relevance for them. Here lies the issues; who is going to maintain blood year round for comparative blood doping tests? Who is going to set the standards for hormonal level thresholds or what are banned or controlled substances for boxing? With Steroids, HGH, Narcotics that's an easy answer but Will Xylocaine like PBF uses be illegal? Will testosterone boosters be illegal, Creatine? Does PBF get to dictate what is and isn't illegal? Now, today boxing drug testing is a joke we all can agree to that and the ultimate goal is to have a good standard in place. The testing that I mentioned in earlier posts can basically be done on any genetic material and like any testing you have to target specific substances, and their levels. The DoD uses very stringent test based on the methods I described for urinalysis. Since they are testing Pilots and people with critical and dangerous professions these tests have lower thresholds than even the IOC. As you can see there are alternatives to blood testing beyond what Manny P. feels comfortable with, so why not use these?

DOD Urinalysis (Drug Test) Cutoff Levels)
Drug
Screening Level (Nanograms per milliliter)
Confirmation Level (Nanograms per milliliter)
THC (Marijuana)
50 NG/ML
15 NG/ML
Cocaine
150 NG/ML
100 NG/ML
Opiates:


Morphine
2000 NG/ML
4000 NG/ML
Codeine
2000 NG/ML
2000 NG/ML
Heroin (6 MAM)
300 NG/ML
10 NG/NL
Amphetamines
500 NG/ML
500 NG/ML
Methamphetamine
500 NG/ML
500 NG/ML
MDA/MDMA (Ecstasy)
500 NG/ML
500 NG/ML
Barbiturates (Amobarbital, butalbital, Pentobarbital, Secobarbital)
200 NG/ML
200 NG/ML
PCP
25 NG/ML
25 NG/ML
LSD
.5 NG/ML
0.2 NG/ML

Drug Detection Windows
Drug
Detection Windows
THC (Marijuana)
1-3 Weeks*
Cocaine
2-4 Days
Amphetamines
2 Days
Barbiturates
1-2 Days
Opiates`
1-2 Days
PCP
5-7 Days
LSD
1-2 Days
Steroids
3 Days or Longer**
Notes:
* Longer than 3 weeks is indicative of chronic or heavy use.
** Length of detection determined by type and duration of use.
Information Courtesy of Department of Defense, the United States Navy, and the Manual for Courts-Martial


Don't misunderstand my argument of Manny being clean, he may be dirty for all I know. BUT, PBF's all or nothing approach to this matter is clearly a case of him trying to get into Manny's head more than him trying to do what right for the sport. There are other ways to test athletes even contrary to USADA.

I can care less about the whole Manny Vs Floyd thing or debate but just to ring in on the steroid issue itself....

Unless a person takes steroids/enhancers to an extended period of time they will not have an effect on performance......You can't take them once or only before the fight etc.....

There has to bee an extended amount of time for them to take full effect....so the 1 or 2 even 3 weeks to start them and use them to gain an advantage is no really very practical...so the olympic style testing 2 weeks before then fight would certainly expose the use even a month before would show traces

[InTheNeutralCorner]

That's an old excuse, it's no longer operative. That was the excuse after he's scared of needles and before he gets weakened by blood tests. Right now he didn't take the test because of some Phillipino pride thing that you wouldn't understand because you're not Phillipino.

Okay, so we'll take an exercise based on your premise. Let's say Manny is dirty, why would he agree to blood test up to 30 days before, urine tests up to fight time and then another blood test immediately following? Makes no sense. Why would Manny agree to anything beyond what is mandated by the boxing authorities/athletic commissions?

Why should Floyd Mayweather dictate the terms of drug testing or anything for that matter? Even if you don't buy that Manny could be superstitious why should he let PBF dictate the terms of anything? Manny has agreed to the most stringent drug testing in the history of boxing and that's not good enough for Floyd so screw it...Manny has earned the title of ATG and doesn't need to do anything that PBF tells him to.

Or maybe pbf's intentions all along were to push Manny's button's enough to prevent a fight, giving PBF an out while and saving his undefeated record?

Why should Floyd agree to eight ounce gloves or a ten million dollar a pound fine for being overweight at the weigh-in? You can negotiate anything you want in a fight contract. Manny had the perfect opportunity to flatten all the steroid rumours and win a massive psychological victory over Floyd by just accepting the test but instead made a bunch of bs excuses. He made himself look guilty.

It's because when Floyd was able to dictate the terms of the fight like in his fight with Juan Marquez, they used the eight ounce gloves.

[Kirkland Laing]

Okay, so we'll take an exercise based on your premise. Let's say Manny is dirty, why would he agree to blood test up to 30 days before, urine tests up to fight time and then another blood test immediately following? Makes no sense. Why would Manny agree to anything beyond what is mandated by the boxing authorities/athletic commissions?

Why should Floyd Mayweather dictate the terms of drug testing or anything for that matter? Even if you don't buy that Manny could be superstitious why should he let PBF dictate the terms of anything? Manny has agreed to the most stringent drug testing in the history of boxing and that's not good enough for Floyd so screw it...Manny has earned the title of ATG and doesn't need to do anything that PBF tells him to.

Or maybe pbf's intentions all along were to push Manny's button's enough to prevent a fight, giving PBF an out while and saving his undefeated record?

Why should Floyd agree to eight ounce gloves or a ten million dollar a pound fine for being overweight at the weigh-in? You can negotiate anything you want in a fight contract. Manny had the perfect opportunity to flatten all the steroid rumours and win a massive psychological victory over Floyd by just accepting the test but instead made a bunch of bs excuses. He made himself look guilty.

It's because when Floyd was able to dictate the terms of the fight like in his fight with Juan Marquez, they used the eight ounce gloves.

It's something Manny wanted and Floyd agreed to, it was a specific demand during the negotiations, just like Floyd demanded random testing. It's irrelevant what demands were made in other fights other than to show that there are always various demands made in negotiations for every fight.