Bob n Weave -- Bend at the hips or knees?

[Chris Nagel]

Not intending for dispute, here's a post that reiterates what Dempsey wrote in his book:

I know that Dempsey loved to lean away and under from punches by moving his upper body back towards his right. It loaded up his right hand and made him extremely hard to reach. The Dempsey roll would come after. With his upper-body positioned over towards his right side (which by the way he stood was behind him - he stood almost sideways) he would weave low so that weight would be over his left leg. This movement slipped punches and allowed him to load up on his left hook.

The whole theme of this is to make the opponent miss whilst putting the body's weight in a position to strike. If you notice of Dempsey, he always had full leverage on every punch. You must start out in a stance similar to his to do that.

Dempsey did it in every fight. He was also hard to hit and had very underrated defense. Too bad that because he liked to press forward he gets billed as being some kind of a savage incapable of thought. He was pretty cagey in my opinion.

As for the move it doesn't limit your vision. I'm not sure how it would. And you're right that it leaves you in a position where you can't punch but only for the left hand. If you've seen any Dempsey you know that he likes to spring up from that crouch with a right hand. Dempsey hit pretty hard last I remember.


He looks pretty open but know that Dempsey's upper-body was constantly moving and he used a shoulder roll. Tunney as quoted saying that Dempsey was one of the hardest fighters to hit with his right. Kept catching air or shoulder.

[WayneFlint]

True as thomas tabin says dempsey could punch pretty hard the way he did it, but that doesnt mean that he couldnt have punched even harder, not everyone is a dempsey and not everyone could throw punches like him, but what really makes you think is how hard could these fighters have hit had they have used propper biomechanics.

[HerbM]

True as thomas tabin says dempsey could punch pretty hard the way he did it, but that doesnt mean that he couldnt have punched even harder, not everyone is a dempsey and not everyone could throw punches like him, but what really makes you think is how hard could these fighters have hit had they have used propper biomechanics.

This brings me back to my question about "is Dempsey right" (in his book) -- and it applies to any of the other older authors for that matter.

Most of the knowledgeable folks here seemed to agree that Dempsey got almost all of it right, so I am very interested when anyone can demonstrate -- or even make a plausible case -- for something he wrote being incorrect. (As opposed to something he did in the ring once, or even habitually -- everyone has bad habits or makes mistakes.)

Dempsey definitely believe that HIS WAY of PUNCHING was MUCH stronger.

Is it?

Do we have evidence against that (or even for it)?

--
HerbM

PS: My boxing coach disapproves of the "falling step punch" which powers Dempsey's "left jolt" replacement for a "left jab" (which can also be used for the straight right but it's more critical on the lead hand).

I must practice this ONLY when he isn't around or I do a LOT OF PUSH-UPS to correct my mistake.

I also try to practice it so subtly that no one can tell what I am doing but yet I still get the weight transfer into the punch.

[WayneFlint]

Im not saying what he did was wrong because he won fights so he must have been doing somthing right, what im saying is he could have hit harder in my opinion given the use of good posture, dempsey was a gifted puncher and i think someone less gifted than himself would struggle to pull off the kind of shots he does while still producing powerful punches, some people can hit hard however they hit but for the rest of us we have to rely on propper bio mechanics to deal damaging shots.

[HerbM]

Im not saying what he did was wrong because he won fights so he must have been doing somthing right, what im saying is he could have hit harder in my opinion given the use of good posture, dempsey was a gifted puncher and i think someone less gifted than himself would struggle to pull off the kind of shots he does while still producing powerful punches, some people can hit hard however they hit but for the rest of us we have to rely on propper bio mechanics to deal damaging shots.

And I am not arguing with you -- Dempsey however says the opposite in his book and goes into some detail about why he is correct.

I was hoping to get specifics if you (or anyone) disagreed with him.

Remember, there is a difference between "Dempsey the Boxer" and "Dempsey the Boxing Coach". The latter spent quite some time getting his detailing in his book what he thought was correct technique and why he thought it worked.

What specifically would you change in Dempsey's description of a power jab? (His "left jolt".)

[Scrap]

Herb, its a balancing act that goes something like this. Your inner ear mechanism for Balance should be the same distance from your big toe either way, left or right. Thats the biomechanics for balance,and engagement of the nervous system to work propperly with gravity. Its taken the body Millions of years to adapt. What Dempsey says wont change it.

[Andre]

True, to keep yourself in the safest and best power generating zone it is best to be on balance and in control first and foremost.

Humans are also imperfect in alot of what they do. Off balance things can sometimes work for or against someone depending on whats going on at that point in time. I think you can get away with ducking low and going off balance if you are popping out to the side where you are heading into a safe zone for a second and because they have to turn fully to find you, it can give you the power from way out of left field beyond the point of balance that you can catch them with as they look for you they meet the head on as you come all the way back through the balance point .

I know its a mistake on both parts when talking text book; but its interesting how at times you see two inadvertant mistakes ends up removing the one who seeks the avoider who has gone out into left field by some strange means then gets caught blindsided.

It takes a very controlled and experienced fighter not to turn to seek but to know to hold his own ground and give himself space and time when that happens. MAb's control over Naz comes to mind.