James Toney pissed about Hopkins being called a legend

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

I look at it this way:

Bernard definitely has the most glamorous resume. But both resumes, like most, can be torn to shit. IMO there about even. James wouldn't struggle to match any W's on Bernard's resume and visa-versa. Although imo James might look a little better in the process. Plus I think JFAT stomps Nard in a fight

But fuck all that... What's really important though is the probability that neither of 'em could beat Roy Jones in their prime

[mattboxingfan]

Hopkins got nothing on Toney, no what im saying?

[Fenster]

"He wouldn't six rounds with me" No shit genius you outweigh him by probably 100 pounds now. Just shut the f**k up and take it. B-Hop has accomplished much more than Toney ever has and now he wants to talk shit. How about when B-Hop called him out in the mid nineties and Toney wanted no part of him. Toney is nothing but a mouth anymore and I hope his damn ass gets KTFO when he switches to that UFC shit.

B-Hop has achieved much more than James Toney ? in what way ? James Toney has beaten better fighters than B-Hop, and also moved all the way up to Heavyweight. Plus James Toney was a much more exciting fighter aswell, So in what way has B-Hop achieved more ?

James Toney's Best Wins.

Michael Nunn
Mike McCallum x2
Tim Littles
Evander Holyfield
Vassiliy Jirov
Reggie Johnson
Doug DeWitt
Iran Barkley
Charles Williams
Tony Thorton

Titles at Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Cruiserweight.

And he beat John Ruiz for the WBA title aswell, forgetting about the steroids. Because like they helped anyway did you see James Toney in that fight ? i know rules are rules and i agree with the decision of a NC, but come on James Toney would of whooped John Ruiz 100 out of 100.

Why does Toney being more exciting mean he is the better fighter ?

I guess that means Hopkins gets 1 up on Toney for being the more disciplined fighter who came to every fight in top shape. I certainly can't say the same for Toney.

Hopkins should also get another 1 up on Toney for being a clean fighter, another thing i can't say for Toney who has tested postive for illegal substances.

Half those guys you mentioned aren't worth much either.

Giving Toney credit for a win over Tim Littles is like giving Hopkins credit for beating Joe Lipsey. Doug Dewitt and Charles Williams also shouldn't be mentioned.

Holyfield was shot in the Toney fight.

McCallum was old for the last fight. I'll give you the 2nd fight though.

Jirov was a decent win but nothing spectactular. Nunn was a nice win. Same for the Reggie Johnson and Iran Barkley wins. Two Losses to Montell Griffin don't help his resume though.

Toney is a 3 division champ which helps his achivements but his resume isn't the strongest.

Hopkins is a two division champ and defended his middleweight crown 20 times. He didn't lose his middleweight title till he was in his 40s.

His biggest wins are over Trinidad, Tarver, Pavlik. He was the underdog in all those fights and dominated them. He was 41 against Tarver and 43 against Pavlik.

Other notable wins include Wright, De La Hoya, Johnson, Elchols, Joppy, Eastman. Three of his losses came when he was in his 40's and they were close.

Hopkins resume could be better but it's better than Toneys. Hopkins also plans a heavyweight fight this year, a win against Haye would blow him past Toney in the achivements catergory.

Prime for Prime, it would be a tough fight, both guys had what it took to beat each other.

This is a bit hypocritical.

He's had his best wins past 40 yet his losses are excused by his old age?

That makes his middleweight reign look very weak.

[generalbulldog]

B-Hop has achieved much more than James Toney ? in what way ? James Toney has beaten better fighters than B-Hop, and also moved all the way up to Heavyweight. Plus James Toney was a much more exciting fighter aswell, So in what way has B-Hop achieved more ?

James Toney's Best Wins.

Michael Nunn
Mike McCallum x2
Tim Littles
Evander Holyfield
Vassiliy Jirov
Reggie Johnson
Doug DeWitt
Iran Barkley
Charles Williams
Tony Thorton

Titles at Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Cruiserweight.

And he beat John Ruiz for the WBA title aswell, forgetting about the steroids. Because like they helped anyway did you see James Toney in that fight ? i know rules are rules and i agree with the decision of a NC, but come on James Toney would of whooped John Ruiz 100 out of 100.

Why does Toney being more exciting mean he is the better fighter ?

I guess that means Hopkins gets 1 up on Toney for being the more disciplined fighter who came to every fight in top shape. I certainly can't say the same for Toney.

Hopkins should also get another 1 up on Toney for being a clean fighter, another thing i can't say for Toney who has tested postive for illegal substances.

Half those guys you mentioned aren't worth much either.

Giving Toney credit for a win over Tim Littles is like giving Hopkins credit for beating Joe Lipsey. Doug Dewitt and Charles Williams also shouldn't be mentioned.

Holyfield was shot in the Toney fight.

McCallum was old for the last fight. I'll give you the 2nd fight though.

Jirov was a decent win but nothing spectactular. Nunn was a nice win. Same for the Reggie Johnson and Iran Barkley wins. Two Losses to Montell Griffin don't help his resume though.

Toney is a 3 division champ which helps his achivements but his resume isn't the strongest.

Hopkins is a two division champ and defended his middleweight crown 20 times. He didn't lose his middleweight title till he was in his 40s.

His biggest wins are over Trinidad, Tarver, Pavlik. He was the underdog in all those fights and dominated them. He was 41 against Tarver and 43 against Pavlik.

Other notable wins include Wright, De La Hoya, Johnson, Elchols, Joppy, Eastman. Three of his losses came when he was in his 40's and they were close.

Hopkins resume could be better but it's better than Toneys. Hopkins also plans a heavyweight fight this year, a win against Haye would blow him past Toney in the achivements catergory.

Prime for Prime, it would be a tough fight, both guys had what it took to beat each other.

This is a bit hypocritical.

He's had his best wins past 40yet his losses are excused by his old age?

That makes his middleweight reign look very weak.

No, I don't think it's being hypocritical. Most people view it as a win-win situation. There comes a point in a fighter's career that if he lost, it doesn't hurt his legacy and if he won it only enhances it.

Take George Foreman for example, if he had lost to Michael Moorer, it would have been said he was old and past his prime, but since he did win, it only significantly enhance his resume and standing because he ko the reigning undefeated lineal HW champ at an very advance age.

Or let's say Hopkins decides to fight Dawson next, if he loses it's because he's past it, which is true, but if he wins just think how his resume would look and how it would advance his legacy.

BTW, his best wins are still in his 30s. Trinidad, De La Hoya, Joppy, Johnson, Holmes.

[Gandalf]

Nice to hear someone speak the truth about Hopkins. Fact.

It is the truth. Hopkins is a horrible fighter to watch and let's face it all of his wins since the losses to Taylor have their question marks (except for Tarver though it can be argued that Tarver was old and showed it in Jones/Tarver 3). What do we have, Winky Wright at LHW? That deserves no credit. Pavlik fighting at LHW? Same thing. Ornelas who? And then the joke fight with Jones? Lame. Hopkins doesn't have many skills and wins by trying to outhustle and butt his opponents into submission. He tried the same with Calzaghe who thankfully kept his cool and worked out the win.

Hopkins deserves so many points to be deducted from his tally in fights and yet refs turn a blind eye. There is being a crafty veteran and their is being a dirty cheat. For me James Toney is bang on the money about Hopkins. Well said.

[Pugilistic]

B-Hop has achieved much more than James Toney ? in what way ? James Toney has beaten better fighters than B-Hop, and also moved all the way up to Heavyweight. Plus James Toney was a much more exciting fighter aswell, So in what way has B-Hop achieved more ?

James Toney's Best Wins.

Michael Nunn
Mike McCallum x2
Tim Littles
Evander Holyfield
Vassiliy Jirov
Reggie Johnson
Doug DeWitt
Iran Barkley
Charles Williams
Tony Thorton

Titles at Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Cruiserweight.

And he beat John Ruiz for the WBA title aswell, forgetting about the steroids. Because like they helped anyway did you see James Toney in that fight ? i know rules are rules and i agree with the decision of a NC, but come on James Toney would of whooped John Ruiz 100 out of 100.

Why does Toney being more exciting mean he is the better fighter ?

I guess that means Hopkins gets 1 up on Toney for being the more disciplined fighter who came to every fight in top shape. I certainly can't say the same for Toney.

Hopkins should also get another 1 up on Toney for being a clean fighter, another thing i can't say for Toney who has tested postive for illegal substances.

Half those guys you mentioned aren't worth much either.

Giving Toney credit for a win over Tim Littles is like giving Hopkins credit for beating Joe Lipsey. Doug Dewitt and Charles Williams also shouldn't be mentioned.

Holyfield was shot in the Toney fight.

McCallum was old for the last fight. I'll give you the 2nd fight though.

Jirov was a decent win but nothing spectactular. Nunn was a nice win. Same for the Reggie Johnson and Iran Barkley wins. Two Losses to Montell Griffin don't help his resume though.

Toney is a 3 division champ which helps his achivements but his resume isn't the strongest.

Hopkins is a two division champ and defended his middleweight crown 20 times. He didn't lose his middleweight title till he was in his 40s.

His biggest wins are over Trinidad, Tarver, Pavlik. He was the underdog in all those fights and dominated them. He was 41 against Tarver and 43 against Pavlik.

Other notable wins include Wright, De La Hoya, Johnson, Elchols, Joppy, Eastman. Three of his losses came when he was in his 40's and they were close.

Hopkins resume could be better but it's better than Toneys. Hopkins also plans a heavyweight fight this year, a win against Haye would blow him past Toney in the achivements catergory.

Prime for Prime, it would be a tough fight, both guys had what it took to beat each other.

And you could say B-Hop has never really beaten a very good fighter, at his own weightclass. Antonio Tarver is the only one, but he was distracted making movies like Rocky 6.

ODLH = a blown up Welterweight, looked horrible against Felix Sturm in his only other Middleweight fight.

Howard Eastman = Decent European level fighter, but always failed at the elite level.

William Joppy = William Joppy had already got destroyed by Felix Trinidad, and he was never that good anyway. He got a gift off Howard Eastman.

Winky Wright = Again a blown up Jr Middleweight, he looked flabby at Light Heavyweight. And still pretty much went dead even with B-Hop.

Felix Trinidad = I give credit to B-Hop for this win, but again Felix Trinidad still isn't no Middleweight. He's a blown up Welterweight.

Glen Johnson = A good win for B-Hop, but Glen Johnson wasn't in his prime. Still a good win though i give him credit for this win.

Kelly Pavlik = Again a blown up Middleweight who didn't belong at Light Heavyweight, yes it is a good win but its the same old story with B-Hop. He's never truly beaten a great fighter in his own weightclass.

As for James Toney i never said he was the better fighter, just because he is more exciting. Im just pointing out he is a much better fighter to watch.

Michael Nunn = P4P top 3 in the world at the time or close to that anyway.

Vssiliy Jirov = Considered the best Cruiserweight in the world at that time.

Mike McCallum = A very good win for James Toney, Mike McCallum is considered a legend amongst boxing fans. And plus he was still very capable in there 3rd fight, because he had just recently gone 12 rounds with a prime Roy Jones Jr.

Tim Littles = Was undefeated and was quite highly rated, because of his Amateur backgroud.

Evander Holyfield = Yes obviously not in his prime, but he is only the 2nd man to stop Evander Holyfield, other than 6'5 240+ Riddick Bowe. Plus it was an dominant win, and considering James Toney started off at Middleweight, that is very impressive.

Montel Griffin = Watch these fights James Toney was robbed in both fights, especially the 2nd. I had it 8-4 for James Toney.

The others i don't need to go into, because you seem to agree with most of the other names. But when James Toney was in his peak, dominating at Super Middleweight.

He was more impressive than B-Hop IMO, and considering he went through the weightclasses especially at Heavyweight. Where he was competitive against big guys, just shows he is greater IMO.

But to each to his own, im not trying to discredit B-Hop, he has had some good wins and he was exciting when he was younger. But he turned really boring when he won the title, and the fact he never really beat a very good fighter at his own weightclass. Just takes away from some of his greatness.

Wright didn't belong at 170 but no one would fight him. Hopkins agreed to lose 5 pounds at 42 where Wright had to move up 10 pounds. Wright was the favourite to beat Hopkins also.

I laugh when people call Trinidad and De la Hoya blown up Welterweights. They were at their best at 147 but at that point weren't natural there. Trinidad just went through 154 knocking guys out and destroyed a top middleweight in Joppy in 5 rounds, not even Hopkins was able to do that. Hopkins was supposed to lose and by KO, i can't see how anyone can discredit that win.

Dlh came unprepared against Sturm and paid the price. Against Hopkins, it was at a catchweight of 156, only two pounds shy of the 154 division where De la Hoya was natural at, at that point. Hopkins did what he had to do and unified the division.

Tarver was supposed to beat Hopkins, those weight drained excuses are only there because Hopkins toyed with him for 12. The reality is that Hopkins was stylistically all wrong for him.

Same applies for Pavlik except Pavlik had to come up in weight, he was supposed to KO Hopkins and end his career. Hopkins dominates, Pavlik excuses come along.

Regarding Toney's win over Littles, if he deserves credit for that, Hopkins deserves credit for beating the undefeated Joe Lipsey and knocking him out.

I can't give Toney credit for beating that version of Holyfield. He was done. Toney stopping him means nothing either.

Does Pacquiao get credit for stopping a weight drained DLH and being the only guy besides a middleweight Hopkins ? Hell no.

Toneys resume at heavyweight is piss poor imo. His best win is a shot Holyfield.

His best performance was Ruiz but he cheated. no excuses.

Being realistic here, Hopkins would have no trouble beating that version of Holyfield. He would beat Ruiz also.

Imo, Hopkins has had the better career. Not by loads but his career has been better and will be viewed as better all time.

[Kel]

Goat bit had me laughing

[Hulk]

Goat bit had me laughing

Same here

James Toney has still got world class shit talking skills but his boxing skills are no longer world class.

And Hopkins did put on a terrible fight with Jones the other night, but that does not mean his whole career should be called into question.

He is a legend and he deserves his respect, 20 MW title defenses, plus over 40 years old and he didn't just win against Tarver and Pavlik, he DOMINATED them.

And he was in a fight with Calzaghe where you could make the case he deserved the decision. Tho he did give away the last two rounds due to being so tired.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Goat bit had me laughing

Same here

James Toney has still got world class shit talking skills but his boxing skills are no longer world class.

And Hopkins did put on a terrible fight with Jones the other night, but that does not mean his whole career should be called into question.

He is a legend and he deserves his respect, 20 MW title defenses, plus over 40 years old and he didn't just win against Tarver and Pavlik, he DOMINATED them.

And he was in a fight with Calzaghe where you could make the case he deserved the decision. Tho he did give away the last two rounds due to being so tired.

tarver was weight drained...as much as i dont like the guy. He had bitch tits, and looked extremely weak in that fight. I think that fight would have been different had he not done the rocky film..