Should smokers and binge drinkers be charged for using the NHS?

[Gandalf]

And obese people could be added in there as well. I was watching a documentary on the Discovery channel about obese people the other week and there was this man who ate 22,000 calories a day. That is ridiculous. This man chooses to eat 10 times the normal person and wonders why he can't walk. I don't think the NHS should pay for people like that, but this was America so he will probably be left to die.

[Gandalf]

Ah, I was only joking on that last part! I should have added a smiley or something. I'm sure he wasn't left to die. But he might, I mean how could he afford health insurance not being able to do anything besides eating?

[Howlin Mad Missy]

miles,

should anorexics be treated on the NHS?
should depressed people be treated or just be told to snap out of it?

[Nameless]

I am not for obese peoples needing to pay because for many obese, it's either a genetics question or the case of a bad education on the matter: Sure, eating bacon and burgers aren't good, but there is also other insidious things that can make you become fat, like eating many feculents in one single meal but many peoples ignore it and biologically talking, some are more vulnerable to it than some others.
Now, how to split up the one responsible from the one who are obese because of a bad education or because of genetics/thyroid problems? Will we make an investigation on each one of them to prove who has to pay and who has not?
As for those smoking, the thing is that it's a very complicated issue globally:

- Peoples before were almost all smoking because it was considering cool and because nobody knew how bad it was (and at the time, it wasn't as toxic as today). Shall we make pay those who were uninformed about the problem as well? How do we split up the limit with proofs here?
- Passive smokers: What do we do with peoples who are working in bars or place where there is massive amount of smoke? They know it's dangerous but still chose to work there, shall we make them pay as well as they did chose that kind of life? What about kids? What about kids when they grow up who would have been the object of passive smoke from their parents?
- Some peoples might be pre-destined to have a lung cancer, smokers or not. IT is very possible that some smokers get lung cancer but not because they were smoking, in that case, isn't it discriminatory to make them pay if we can't prove that it's officially smoking that did cause that cancer?

These are some issues I have with that idea, perhaps a solution would be to ask a bit more on peoples life insurance who are smoking, nothing outrageous but a little something in order to help cover the global expenses related with it but I am absolutely not in favor to make pay obese peoples in general and to another extend, the smokers issue is quite complicated too.

[BIG H]

It's a difficult one this! You could say that the amount of money we pay into the NHS entitles us to do what the fuck we like and expect to be treated for it

[HattonTheHammer]

If someone gets skin cancer should they be treated?? they CHOSE to spend all that time under a sunbed

If someone has aids should they be treated?? they CHOSE to stick mandingos tallkywacker inside of them

horses for courses, NHS is there to treat sick people not judge them on how they got there in the 1st place. Only thing i will say is that surgery to make an overweight person thin is just wrong. Only the real fattys should be allowed to have their stomachs stapled

[Gandalf]

Yeah, it's an interesting one and I hadn't really considered it before. Also from articles I have read binge drinking appears to be particularly out of control in the UK. A penalty for emergency care brought on by binge drinking might provide an incentive to moderate behaviour and to consider the impact it has. Like I say, I do binge drink myself (but never to the state where I am passing out) and would quite happily cough up if it went to far and led to me being hospitalised. I don't see why society as a whole should cover the cost of self excess.

HTH, you aren't possibly trying to tell me that you think gays should recieve life extending AID's medicine courtesy of the NHS!?

[Gandalf]

miles,

should anorexics be treated on the NHS?
should depressed people be treated or just be told to snap out of it?

I think anorexia is a more complicated problem than the habitual drinker who gets drunk to oblivion 3 nights a week with his friends. Anorexics aren't costing the taxpayer 3 billion pounds a year and you can sympathise with their condition. It's difficult to sympathise with the habitual binge drinker. I don't regard myself as sick and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either. I regard binge drinking as more a social problem rather than a medical condition. Two nights a week is my limit and no more than half a dozen beers these days. To an extent I regulate myself and think other drinkers should too. To not do so is a bit silly.

In terms of depression, I think people should have access to medicine and pay towards it, but it's a relatively common condition. To an extent I do think people with depression should try to sort it out themselves, but if they want medicine then they should take it. Personally, I would choose not to. Life is what it is and you just have to deal with it, but that's my approach and am not suggesting that is right for everyone.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

miles,

should anorexics be treated on the NHS?
should depressed people be treated or just be told to snap out of it?

I think anorexia is a more complicated problem than the habitual drinker who gets drunk to oblivion 3 nights a week with his friends. Anorexics aren't costing the taxpayer 3 billion pounds a year and you can sympathise with their condition. It's difficult to sympathise with the habitual binge drinker. I don't regard myself as sick and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either. I regard binge drinking as more a social problem rather than a medical condition. Two nights a week is my limit and no more than half a dozen beers these days. To an extent I regulate myself and think other drinkers should too. To not do so is a bit silly.

In terms of depression, I think people should have access to medicine and pay towards it, but it's a relatively common condition. To an extent I do think people with depression should try to sort it out themselves, but if they want medicine then they should take it. Personally, I would choose not to. Life is what it is and you just have to deal with it, but that's my approach and am not suggesting that is right for everyone.

you mentioned obese people not being treated so I countered with anorexia. Both in my opinion are mental health issues and not just about someone being greedy or someone having a sulk and not eating.

in many instances people can help themselves but they have to have the tools and motivation to do it.

Miles, I think you'd like this book. Takes a really interesting view of some of the issues you raise and that others are bringing.

The Rainbow Machine by Andrew T. Austin

[BIG H]

miles,

should anorexics be treated on the NHS?
should depressed people be treated or just be told to snap out of it?

I think anorexia is a more complicated problem than the habitual drinker who gets drunk to oblivion 3 nights a week with his friends. Anorexics aren't costing the taxpayer 3 billion pounds a year and you can sympathise with their condition. It's difficult to sympathise with the habitual binge drinker. I don't regard myself as sick and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either. I regard binge drinking as more a social problem rather than a medical condition. Two nights a week is my limit and no more than half a dozen beers these days. To an extent I regulate myself and think other drinkers should too. To not do so is a bit silly.

In terms of depression, I think people should have access to medicine and pay towards it, but it's a relatively common condition. To an extent I do think people with depression should try to sort it out themselves, but if they want medicine then they should take it. Personally, I would choose not to. Life is what it is and you just have to deal with it, but that's my approach and am not suggesting that is right for everyone.

you mentioned obese people not being treated so I countered with anorexia. Both in my opinion are mental health issues and not just about someone being greedy or someone having a sulk and not eating.

in many instances people can help themselves but they have to have the tools and motivation to do it.

Miles, I think you'd like this book. Takes a really interesting view of some of the issues you raise and that others are bringing.

The Rainbow Machine by Andrew T. Austin

So true - petty that so few people acknowledge that!

[Kev]

miles,

should anorexics be treated on the NHS?
should depressed people be treated or just be told to snap out of it?

Missy will hate this but I agree with her.

There are multiple lifestyles that are a burden to the state not just smokers and drinkers.

What about fatties?

Or extremely active people who break bones playing football, rock climbing or base jumping?

What about drivers who injure themselves through reckless driving?

Or how about those who injure themselves attempting to do some DIY or heavy lifting when they should have taken more precautions?

What about wasters such as myself who choose to get cancer so they don't have to work?

What about gays or drug users who get HIV?

What about the sexually promiscous who get other diseases, or the young kids who keep getting pregnant?

How about the old people who don't take care of themselves and get pnuemonia rather than put the heating on?

You could go on and on with this.

[JazMerkin]

This is the 2nd time Miles has posted a link from The Daily Fail.

I say we all shun him like the freak he clearly is for this behaviour.

[ryanman]

This is the 2nd time Miles has posted a link from The Daily Fail.

I say we all shun him like the freak he clearly is for this behaviour.

Agreed. When I started on here properly last september I swear he was slightly left of centre. Now he's bloody somewhere to the right of Ghengis Khan!

[JazMerkin]

This is the 2nd time Miles has posted a link from The Daily Fail.

I say we all shun him like the freak he clearly is for this behaviour.

Agreed. When I started on here properly last september I swear he was slightly left of centre. Now he's bloody somewhere to the right of Ghengis Khan!

Haha, it's only a matter of time before he starts calling for the blood of the jews, gypsies & Amir Khan. Oh wait...

[Gandalf]

This is the 2nd time Miles has posted a link from The Daily Fail.

I say we all shun him like the freak he clearly is for this behaviour.

Oh, come on now!

When you go to Yahoo they give you the choice of Guardian, Telegraph and the Daily Mail...I can't help but skim through them all. I can assure you all that I am not an avid Mail reader and often find myself at odds with their views when I do read. I thought this one might spark a little debate though and it has.

TBH it isn't an issue I have thought about too much, but on the surface can definitely see the merit in the view that if you drink 10 pints of beer plus shots and then need to go and get your stomach pumped, that you should fork out for the treatment yourself. Smoking I can kind of see a similar thing. Maybe smokers should pay higher NI premiums.

I can see the arguments on both sides and agree that it is a complicated issue, but it is clear that excessive alcohol consumption is a serious social problem in the UK. I wouldn't like to see anything banned myself, but Ono is right. You can walk through any large city in the UK on a saturday night and it is like a zombie filled apocalypse. It can be quite gruesome. I like to get drunk sometimes, but I'm not picking fights with anyone nor getting taken to the emergency room. I just go to bed and the people doing that are just fine and shouldn't need to concern themselves with medical costs and what have you. But those who overdo big time should probably shoulder some of the responsibility because they are just being foolish.