After last nights fight does anyone doubt Bute and Ward are the best SMWTS in the wor

[HattonTheHammer]

One thing is for sure that if Froch was quoted correct in the later rounds talking about how much the body shots were killing him then Bute would have a field day and probably stop Froch.

The fight shouldnt of gone ahead, froch was unwell before and shouldnt of been allowed to fight. But being the brave warrior that he is he carried on and won a unanimous decision

fair play to him

[TheMacMagician]

One thing is for sure that if Froch was quoted correct in the later rounds talking about how much the body shots were killing him then Bute would have a field day and probably stop Froch.

The fight shouldnt of gone ahead, froch was unwell before and shouldnt of been allowed to fight. But being the brave warrior that he is he carried on and won a unanimous decision

fair play to him

What was his illness or ailment?

[Darth_Simasu]

One thing is for sure that if Froch was quoted correct in the later rounds talking about how much the body shots were killing him then Bute would have a field day and probably stop Froch.

The fight shouldnt of gone ahead, froch was unwell before and shouldnt of been allowed to fight. But being the brave warrior that he is he carried on and won a unanimous decision

fair play to him

Froch is a brave fighter yes however he's done nothing but whinge and make excuses since Saturday so you can also class him as a poor loser.

[Fenster]

Bute is being overrated here.

Lets get things in perspective.. In the last two years he's beaten Andrade and Miranda.

Half the Super Six field have already beaten these two with pure ease. Kessler totally schooled Andrade without breaking sweat. Abraham blasted Miranda into next week and Ward wiped the floor with him.

Andrade virtually knocked Bute out. You can't get away from that. He may have won the rematch impressively but he scraped through first time by the skin of his teeth.

Another strong factor is, Bute has the benefit of home advantage in every fight. The Super Six has really highlighted just how hard it is away from home. How would he handle an Arthur Abraham onslaught in Germany? Dirrell's family spitting venom at him in Detroit? 5000 Nottingham hooligans booing him?

Bute is having an easy ride compared to the other top supermiddles. Lets judge him when he steps up to top class

[Bomp]

Bute is being overrated here.

Lets get things in perspective.. In the last two years he's beaten Andrade and Miranda.

Half the Super Six field have already beaten these two with pure ease. Kessler totally schooled Andrade without breaking sweat. Abraham blasted Miranda into next week and Ward wiped the floor with him.

Andrade virtually knocked Bute out. You can't get away from that. He may have won the rematch impressively but he scraped through first time by the skin of his teeth.

Another strong factor is, Bute has the benefit of home advantage in every fight. The Super Six has really highlighted just how hard it is away from home. How would he handle an Arthur Abraham onslaught in Germany? Dirrell's family spitting venom at him in Detroit? 5000 Nottingham hooligans booing him?

Bute is having an easy ride compared to the other top supermiddles. Lets judge him when he steps up to top class

what he said. I do think he'd be competitive against the lot, but would have couple l's on his record if he were in this tourney having to travel.

[Fenster]

Bute is being overrated here.

Lets get things in perspective.. In the last two years he's beaten Andrade and Miranda.

Half the Super Six field have already beaten these two with pure ease. Kessler totally schooled Andrade without breaking sweat. Abraham blasted Miranda into next week and Ward wiped the floor with him.

Andrade virtually knocked Bute out. You can't get away from that. He may have won the rematch impressively but he scraped through first time by the skin of his teeth.

Another strong factor is, Bute has the benefit of home advantage in every fight. The Super Six has really highlighted just how hard it is away from home. How would he handle an Arthur Abraham onslaught in Germany? Dirrell's family spitting venom at him in Detroit? 5000 Nottingham hooligans booing him?

Bute is having an easy ride compared to the other top supermiddles. Lets judge him when he steps up to top class

what he said. I do think he'd be competitive against the lot, but would have couple l's on his record if he were in this tourney having to travel.

I'm pretty sure no fighter would remain unbeaten if they had to fight A-class opposition every fight. Doesn't matter how good you are, eventually the fights will catch-up with you.

[DaxxKahn]

Bute is being overrated here.

Lets get things in perspective.. In the last two years he's beaten Andrade and Miranda.

Half the Super Six field have already beaten these two with pure ease. Kessler totally schooled Andrade without breaking sweat. Abraham blasted Miranda into next week and Ward wiped the floor with him.

Andrade virtually knocked Bute out. You can't get away from that. He may have won the rematch impressively but he scraped through first time by the skin of his teeth.

Another strong factor is, Bute has the benefit of home advantage in every fight. The Super Six has really highlighted just how hard it is away from home. How would he handle an Arthur Abraham onslaught in Germany? Dirrell's family spitting venom at him in Detroit? 5000 Nottingham hooligans booing him?

Bute is having an easy ride compared to the other top supermiddles. Lets judge him when he steps up to top class

what he said. I do think he'd be competitive against the lot, but would have couple l's on his record if he were in this tourney having to travel.

I'm pretty sure no fighter would remain unbeaten if they had to fight A-class opposition every fight. Doesn't matter how good you are, eventually the fights will catch-up with you.

...Well said as the tournament has already backed up your statement...4 fighters came in with 0's...3 have lost them thus far.....

[The Fightfan]

I think that Bute is the best SMW and the other's are starting to decline. Not so much Dirrell and Ward but Kessler and Froch. Abraham showed he can be outboxed which I think Bute would do all night long. Green is not all that good he has good power and decent boxing ability, but I think he will just fall short. Ward is still a question mark in my mind in this tournament I would like to see him with a good pressure fighter like Froch.

[DaxxKahn]

Bute is being overrated here.

Lets get things in perspective.. In the last two years he's beaten Andrade and Miranda.

Half the Super Six field have already beaten these two with pure ease. Kessler totally schooled Andrade without breaking sweat. Abraham blasted Miranda into next week and Ward wiped the floor with him.

Andrade virtually knocked Bute out. You can't get away from that. He may have won the rematch impressively but he scraped through first time by the skin of his teeth.

Another strong factor is, Bute has the benefit of home advantage in every fight. The Super Six has really highlighted just how hard it is away from home. How would he handle an Arthur Abraham onslaught in Germany? Dirrell's family spitting venom at him in Detroit? 5000 Nottingham hooligans booing him?

Bute is having an easy ride compared to the other top supermiddles. Lets judge him when he steps up to top class

Until the S6 what SMW was "The fighting champion?"...

IMO Froch may have had the toughest run of them all

Kessler prior 2 were Perdomo and Haussler

AA- Oral and Simon

Taylor- Froch and Lacey

Dirrell- Findley and Oganov

Ward- Miranda and Pudwill

Froch- Taylor and Pascal

Bute- Andrade and Miranda

Now outside of Froch who had won the title from a guy who is now a LHW champion and fought a former undisputed champion...Are we really going to pretend any of the others prior 2 were better then Butes?...At least Miranda is dangerous with 1 shot at anytime and he has only lost to Pavlik, AA and Ward...

Librado has only lost to a prime Kessler a version that most thought would beat Calzaghe....I can pull up the threads to prove even here 80% picked Kessler...Librado has KO wins over former world champions and a cuirrent one so he cant be that bad can he?......Who has Pudwill beat? Simon?...

C'mon lets be honest here the paper doesn't lie...

[Fenster]

Bute is being overrated here.

Lets get things in perspective.. In the last two years he's beaten Andrade and Miranda.

Half the Super Six field have already beaten these two with pure ease. Kessler totally schooled Andrade without breaking sweat. Abraham blasted Miranda into next week and Ward wiped the floor with him.

Andrade virtually knocked Bute out. You can't get away from that. He may have won the rematch impressively but he scraped through first time by the skin of his teeth.

Another strong factor is, Bute has the benefit of home advantage in every fight. The Super Six has really highlighted just how hard it is away from home. How would he handle an Arthur Abraham onslaught in Germany? Dirrell's family spitting venom at him in Detroit? 5000 Nottingham hooligans booing him?

Bute is having an easy ride compared to the other top supermiddles. Lets judge him when he steps up to top class

Until the S6 what SMW was "The fighting champion?"...

IMO Froch may have had the toughest run of them all

Kessler prior 2 were Perdomo and Haussler

AA- Oral and Simon

Taylor- Froch and Lacey

Dirrell- Findley and Oganov

Ward- Miranda and Pudwill

Froch- Taylor and Pascal

Bute- Andrade and Miranda

Now outside of Froch who had won the title from a guy who is now a LHW champion and fought a former undisputed champion...Are we really going to pretend any of the others prior 2 were better then Butes?...At least Miranda is dangerous with 1 shot at anytime and he has only lost to Pavlik, AA and Ward...

Librado has only lost to a prime Kessler a version that most thought would beat Calzaghe....I can pull up the threads to prove even here 80% picked Kessler...Librado has KO wins over former world champions and a cuirrent one so he cant be that bad can he?......Who has Pudwill beat? Simon?...

C'mon lets be honest here the paper doesn't lie...

You can't just ignore the Super Six form.

Ward and Dirrell were totally unexposed before the tournament. They could have flopped but proved to be world-class fighters. Andrade is a good fighter. But he'd been slaughtered by a guy that has lost in the Super Six. Which is clearly a knock on the Bute win.

Bute may very well be the best supermiddle. But until he gets in the mix with those guys (the six other best fighters in the world) he shouldn't be regarded the best because quite simply he is not fighting the best

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

Bute is being overrated here.

Lets get things in perspective.. In the last two years he's beaten Andrade and Miranda.

Half the Super Six field have already beaten these two with pure ease. Kessler totally schooled Andrade without breaking sweat. Abraham blasted Miranda into next week and Ward wiped the floor with him.

Andrade virtually knocked Bute out. You can't get away from that. He may have won the rematch impressively but he scraped through first time by the skin of his teeth.

Another strong factor is, Bute has the benefit of home advantage in every fight. The Super Six has really highlighted just how hard it is away from home. How would he handle an Arthur Abraham onslaught in Germany? Dirrell's family spitting venom at him in Detroit? 5000 Nottingham hooligans booing him?

Bute is having an easy ride compared to the other top supermiddles. Lets judge him when he steps up to top class

Until the S6 what SMW was "The fighting champion?"...

IMO Froch may have had the toughest run of them all

Kessler prior 2 were Perdomo and Haussler

AA- Oral and Simon

Taylor- Froch and Lacey

Dirrell- Findley and Oganov

Ward- Miranda and Pudwill

Froch- Taylor and Pascal

Bute- Andrade and Miranda

Now outside of Froch who had won the title from a guy who is now a LHW champion and fought a former undisputed champion...Are we really going to pretend any of the others prior 2 were better then Butes?...At least Miranda is dangerous with 1 shot at anytime and he has only lost to Pavlik, AA and Ward...

Librado has only lost to a prime Kessler a version that most thought would beat Calzaghe....I can pull up the threads to prove even here 80% picked Kessler...Librado has KO wins over former world champions and a cuirrent one so he cant be that bad can he?......Who has Pudwill beat? Simon?...

C'mon lets be honest here the paper doesn't lie...

You can't just ignore the Super Six form.

Ward and Dirrell were totally unexposed before the tournament. They could have flopped but proved to be world-class fighters. Andrade is a good fighter. But he'd been slaughtered by a guy that has lost in the Super Six. Which is clearly a knock on the Bute win.

Bute may very well be the best supermiddle. But until he gets in the mix with those guys (the six other best fighters in the world) he shouldn't be regarded the best because quite simply he is not fighting the best

Yup, and was slaughtered by Bute as well... for 15.97 rounds(baring 15 seconds of the first fight which by IBF rules he won regardless of the ref's slow count.). You could then make an argument about Bute beating Andrade in his second fight inside 4 rounds when Kessler, Like Bute, took him the distance the first time...But yes, until he gets in the mix it's tough to make a case for him being the best.

[HattonTheHammer]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

[JonnyFolds]

I just don't go with the obvious in this argument. You are asking if the two guys who don't have a loss are the best SMWs. I hope everyone has some say in what makes a fighter the best, what makes him undefeated, and what makes a champ (not a paper champ). Big difference between all of those.

The simple answer is NO. Even after this weekend's madness it's not widely apparent they are the best. Especially not Bute, if I am looking at his demolition of Miranda. That win says almost nothing to me. Miranda was probably a 15:1 dog.

You know what would make this tournament really really interesting Watching Green mop the floor with Ward. If you only waited until after the Green-Ward fight, then you could probably make a better case for Bute, but right now, not for both..

Right now, I'm just happy all these guys are swimming in the same pool, going to new territories, and digging deeper than they ever had to. All of these guys are great fighters. I knew leaving Bute out would just make people for want of a fight that can't happen. But, look on the bright side.. All these guys would have been filling their resumees with guys like Bute has.

[DaxxKahn]

Bute is being overrated here.

Lets get things in perspective.. In the last two years he's beaten Andrade and Miranda.

Half the Super Six field have already beaten these two with pure ease. Kessler totally schooled Andrade without breaking sweat. Abraham blasted Miranda into next week and Ward wiped the floor with him.

Andrade virtually knocked Bute out. You can't get away from that. He may have won the rematch impressively but he scraped through first time by the skin of his teeth.

Another strong factor is, Bute has the benefit of home advantage in every fight. The Super Six has really highlighted just how hard it is away from home. How would he handle an Arthur Abraham onslaught in Germany? Dirrell's family spitting venom at him in Detroit? 5000 Nottingham hooligans booing him?

Bute is having an easy ride compared to the other top supermiddles. Lets judge him when he steps up to top class

Until the S6 what SMW was "The fighting champion?"...

IMO Froch may have had the toughest run of them all

Kessler prior 2 were Perdomo and Haussler

AA- Oral and Simon

Taylor- Froch and Lacey

Dirrell- Findley and Oganov

Ward- Miranda and Pudwill

Froch- Taylor and Pascal

Bute- Andrade and Miranda

Now outside of Froch who had won the title from a guy who is now a LHW champion and fought a former undisputed champion...Are we really going to pretend any of the others prior 2 were better then Butes?...At least Miranda is dangerous with 1 shot at anytime and he has only lost to Pavlik, AA and Ward...

Librado has only lost to a prime Kessler a version that most thought would beat Calzaghe....I can pull up the threads to prove even here 80% picked Kessler...Librado has KO wins over former world champions and a cuirrent one so he cant be that bad can he?......Who has Pudwill beat? Simon?...

C'mon lets be honest here the paper doesn't lie...

You can't just ignore the Super Six form.

Ward and Dirrell were totally unexposed before the tournament. They could have flopped but proved to be world-class fighters. Andrade is a good fighter. But he'd been slaughtered by a guy that has lost in the Super Six. Which is clearly a knock on the Bute win.

Bute may very well be the best supermiddle. But until he gets in the mix with those guys (the six other best fighters in the world) he shouldn't be regarded the best because quite simply he is not fighting the best

Fair enough....If it was not for the Rematch with Andrade keeping him out I think it is fair we agree he would be up 6 to 3 on AA and 6-2 on the rest..

Other then that time will let us know

[mickel]

as far as the best goes all these guys, except for green, are pretty close in talent and on any given night could beat each other. no one stands out, like calzaghe did. but, after the tournament someone might....