After last nights fight does anyone doubt Bute and Ward are the best SMWTS in the wor

[DaxxKahn]

Bute is being overrated here.

Lets get things in perspective.. In the last two years he's beaten Andrade and Miranda.

Half the Super Six field have already beaten these two with pure ease. Kessler totally schooled Andrade without breaking sweat. Abraham blasted Miranda into next week and Ward wiped the floor with him.

Andrade virtually knocked Bute out. You can't get away from that. He may have won the rematch impressively but he scraped through first time by the skin of his teeth.

Another strong factor is, Bute has the benefit of home advantage in every fight. The Super Six has really highlighted just how hard it is away from home. How would he handle an Arthur Abraham onslaught in Germany? Dirrell's family spitting venom at him in Detroit? 5000 Nottingham hooligans booing him?

Bute is having an easy ride compared to the other top supermiddles. Lets judge him when he steps up to top class

Until the S6 what SMW was "The fighting champion?"...

IMO Froch may have had the toughest run of them all

Kessler prior 2 were Perdomo and Haussler

AA- Oral and Simon

Taylor- Froch and Lacey

Dirrell- Findley and Oganov

Ward- Miranda and Pudwill

Froch- Taylor and Pascal

Bute- Andrade and Miranda

Now outside of Froch who had won the title from a guy who is now a LHW champion and fought a former undisputed champion...Are we really going to pretend any of the others prior 2 were better then Butes?...At least Miranda is dangerous with 1 shot at anytime and he has only lost to Pavlik, AA and Ward...

Librado has only lost to a prime Kessler a version that most thought would beat Calzaghe....I can pull up the threads to prove even here 80% picked Kessler...Librado has KO wins over former world champions and a cuirrent one so he cant be that bad can he?......Who has Pudwill beat? Simon?...

C'mon lets be honest here the paper doesn't lie...

[Fenster]

Bute is being overrated here.

Lets get things in perspective.. In the last two years he's beaten Andrade and Miranda.

Half the Super Six field have already beaten these two with pure ease. Kessler totally schooled Andrade without breaking sweat. Abraham blasted Miranda into next week and Ward wiped the floor with him.

Andrade virtually knocked Bute out. You can't get away from that. He may have won the rematch impressively but he scraped through first time by the skin of his teeth.

Another strong factor is, Bute has the benefit of home advantage in every fight. The Super Six has really highlighted just how hard it is away from home. How would he handle an Arthur Abraham onslaught in Germany? Dirrell's family spitting venom at him in Detroit? 5000 Nottingham hooligans booing him?

Bute is having an easy ride compared to the other top supermiddles. Lets judge him when he steps up to top class

Until the S6 what SMW was "The fighting champion?"...

IMO Froch may have had the toughest run of them all

Kessler prior 2 were Perdomo and Haussler

AA- Oral and Simon

Taylor- Froch and Lacey

Dirrell- Findley and Oganov

Ward- Miranda and Pudwill

Froch- Taylor and Pascal

Bute- Andrade and Miranda

Now outside of Froch who had won the title from a guy who is now a LHW champion and fought a former undisputed champion...Are we really going to pretend any of the others prior 2 were better then Butes?...At least Miranda is dangerous with 1 shot at anytime and he has only lost to Pavlik, AA and Ward...

Librado has only lost to a prime Kessler a version that most thought would beat Calzaghe....I can pull up the threads to prove even here 80% picked Kessler...Librado has KO wins over former world champions and a cuirrent one so he cant be that bad can he?......Who has Pudwill beat? Simon?...

C'mon lets be honest here the paper doesn't lie...

You can't just ignore the Super Six form.

Ward and Dirrell were totally unexposed before the tournament. They could have flopped but proved to be world-class fighters. Andrade is a good fighter. But he'd been slaughtered by a guy that has lost in the Super Six. Which is clearly a knock on the Bute win.

Bute may very well be the best supermiddle. But until he gets in the mix with those guys (the six other best fighters in the world) he shouldn't be regarded the best because quite simply he is not fighting the best

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

Bute is being overrated here.

Lets get things in perspective.. In the last two years he's beaten Andrade and Miranda.

Half the Super Six field have already beaten these two with pure ease. Kessler totally schooled Andrade without breaking sweat. Abraham blasted Miranda into next week and Ward wiped the floor with him.

Andrade virtually knocked Bute out. You can't get away from that. He may have won the rematch impressively but he scraped through first time by the skin of his teeth.

Another strong factor is, Bute has the benefit of home advantage in every fight. The Super Six has really highlighted just how hard it is away from home. How would he handle an Arthur Abraham onslaught in Germany? Dirrell's family spitting venom at him in Detroit? 5000 Nottingham hooligans booing him?

Bute is having an easy ride compared to the other top supermiddles. Lets judge him when he steps up to top class

Until the S6 what SMW was "The fighting champion?"...

IMO Froch may have had the toughest run of them all

Kessler prior 2 were Perdomo and Haussler

AA- Oral and Simon

Taylor- Froch and Lacey

Dirrell- Findley and Oganov

Ward- Miranda and Pudwill

Froch- Taylor and Pascal

Bute- Andrade and Miranda

Now outside of Froch who had won the title from a guy who is now a LHW champion and fought a former undisputed champion...Are we really going to pretend any of the others prior 2 were better then Butes?...At least Miranda is dangerous with 1 shot at anytime and he has only lost to Pavlik, AA and Ward...

Librado has only lost to a prime Kessler a version that most thought would beat Calzaghe....I can pull up the threads to prove even here 80% picked Kessler...Librado has KO wins over former world champions and a cuirrent one so he cant be that bad can he?......Who has Pudwill beat? Simon?...

C'mon lets be honest here the paper doesn't lie...

You can't just ignore the Super Six form.

Ward and Dirrell were totally unexposed before the tournament. They could have flopped but proved to be world-class fighters. Andrade is a good fighter. But he'd been slaughtered by a guy that has lost in the Super Six. Which is clearly a knock on the Bute win.

Bute may very well be the best supermiddle. But until he gets in the mix with those guys (the six other best fighters in the world) he shouldn't be regarded the best because quite simply he is not fighting the best

Yup, and was slaughtered by Bute as well... for 15.97 rounds(baring 15 seconds of the first fight which by IBF rules he won regardless of the ref's slow count.). You could then make an argument about Bute beating Andrade in his second fight inside 4 rounds when Kessler, Like Bute, took him the distance the first time...But yes, until he gets in the mix it's tough to make a case for him being the best.

[HattonTheHammer]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

No... No he didn't knock Bute the fuck out. In fact by IBF rules once his glove came off the canvas he had won the fight regardless of the refs slow count. Did Kessler KO Andrade in 4 rounds? No. Bute has fought the same level of opposition barring Calzaghe, as Kessler... Which Kessler lost. I agree that we'll find out for real once the Super Six ends but the satatement of him being knocked out of the top 8 SMWs in the world once it ends is fucking retarded.

[amat]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

No... No he didn't knock Bute the fuck out. In fact by IBF rules once his glove came off the canvas he had won the fight regardless of the refs slow count. Did Kessler KO Andrade in 4 rounds? No. Bute has fought the same level of opposition barring Calzaghe... Which Kessler lost. I agree that we'll find out for real once the Super Six ends but the satatement of him being knocked out of the top 8 SMWs in the world once it ends is fucking retarded.

Bute has never faced anyone as highly ranked or regarded as Froch or Ward so no chance does he have as good of competition as Kessler. No chance. I do think he is the 2nd best SMW in the world but Fenster is right in saying that he will not have a chance to prove it until at least after the first round.

Also people judge to much on a fighter's last performance, I would never count AA out here.

[amat]

Do people really think Green will mop the floor with Ward? The guy who lost to Miranda, the guy who means nothing in the division?

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

No... No he didn't knock Bute the fuck out. In fact by IBF rules once his glove came off the canvas he had won the fight regardless of the refs slow count. Did Kessler KO Andrade in 4 rounds? No. Bute has fought the same level of opposition barring Calzaghe... Which Kessler lost. I agree that we'll find out for real once the Super Six ends but the satatement of him being knocked out of the top 8 SMWs in the world once it ends is fucking retarded.

Bute has never faced anyone as highly ranked or regarded as Froch or Ward so no chance does he have as good of competition as Kessler. No chance. I do think he is the 2nd best SMW in the world but Fenster is right in saying that he will not have a chance to prove it until at least after the first round.

Also people judge to much on a fighter's last performance, I would never count AA out here.

I 'm talking about Kesslers level of Op prior to the Super 6 being as good as Bute's up to now.

[ICB]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

Uhh no he didn't Knock him the fuck out, otherwise he would of had the W next to his name.

The only round he was ever in the fight was the 12th round, where Lucian Bute made a mistake by trading. But he got up and won get over it, there was no long count thats a myth. Lucian Bute got up in 8 seconds, the ref telling Librado Andrade off, has fuck all to do with Lucian Bute winning.

Because the time in the round was already over, how many fucking times do i have to keep telling you this ? im sick of you spouting off so called facts when your talking out your ass.

And he crushed Librado Andrade in the rematch, in 4 rounds a fighter who at that time was considered to have one of the best chins in boxing today.

But why am i telling you this anyway ? its not like you've seen the fight anyway or have any clue about Lucian Bute. You've got your nose so far up Carl Froch's ass. You haven't got time to learn about the sport, or actually watch fights and base your own opinion.

And do you want to get humilated again ? with a bet regarding Carl Froch vs Lucian Bute ?

All Carl Froch has is toughness and good power thats it, his defense is shit. His footwork is poor, and his punch technique has a lot to be desired.

Yet you had the cheek to tell us he's the best Super Middleweight of this generation ? get the fuck outta here.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

Uhh no he didn't Knock him the fuck out, otherwise he would of had the W next to his name.

The only round he was ever in the fight was the 12th round, where Lucian Bute made a mistake by trading. But he got up and won get over it, there was no long count thats a myth. Lucian Bute got up in 8 seconds, the ref telling Librado Andrade off, has fuck all to do with Lucian Bute winning.

Because the time in the round was already over, how many fucking times do i have to keep telling you this ? im sick of you spouting off so called facts when your talking out your ass.

And he crushed Librado Andrade in the rematch, in 4 rounds a fighter who at that time was considered to have one of the best chins in boxing today.

But why am i telling you this anyway ? its not like you've seen the fight anyway or have any clue about Lucian Bute. You've got your nose so far up Carl Froch's ass. You haven't got time to learn about the sport, or actually watch fights and base your own opinion.

And do you want to get humilated again ? with a bet regarding Carl Froch vs Lucian Bute ?

All Carl Froch has is toughness and good power thats it, his defense is shit. His footwork is poor, and his punch technique has a lot to be desired.

Yet you had the cheek to tell us he's the best Super Middleweight of this generation ? get the fuck outta here.


FACT

I fixed your post.

Well said and I completely agree.

[Kev]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

Uhh no he didn't Knock him the fuck out, otherwise he would of had the W next to his name.

The only round he was ever in the fight was the 12th round, where Lucian Bute made a mistake by trading. But he got up and won get over it, there was no long count thats a myth. Lucian Bute got up in 8 seconds, the ref telling Librado Andrade off, has fuck all to do with Lucian Bute winning.

Because the time in the round was already over, how many fucking times do i have to keep telling you this ? im sick of you spouting off so called facts when your talking out your ass.

And he crushed Librado Andrade in the rematch, in 4 rounds a fighter who at that time was considered to have one of the best chins in boxing today.

But why am i telling you this anyway ? its not like you've seen the fight anyway or have any clue about Lucian Bute. You've got your nose so far up Carl Froch's ass. You haven't got time to learn about the sport, or actually watch fights and base your own opinion.

And do you want to get humilated again ? with a bet regarding Carl Froch vs Lucian Bute ?

All Carl Froch has is toughness and good power thats it, his defense is shit. His footwork is poor, and his punch technique has a lot to be desired.

Yet you had the cheek to tell us he's the best Super Middleweight of this generation ? get the fuck outta here.

Ok Ice, say we agree with you that technically he got up and was saved by the bell do you think however he was in a fit state to continue had the fight gone on?

How far away from defeat was he? 30 seconds, 20, 10, maybe 3?

If there was ANY time in that round left Bute would have stopped, so ok he was saved by the bell but he was completely out on his feet and could not have stood against Andrade for a moment longer.

Hardly a glorious victory.

[ICB]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

Uhh no he didn't Knock him the fuck out, otherwise he would of had the W next to his name.

The only round he was ever in the fight was the 12th round, where Lucian Bute made a mistake by trading. But he got up and won get over it, there was no long count thats a myth. Lucian Bute got up in 8 seconds, the ref telling Librado Andrade off, has fuck all to do with Lucian Bute winning.

Because the time in the round was already over, how many fucking times do i have to keep telling you this ? im sick of you spouting off so called facts when your talking out your ass.

And he crushed Librado Andrade in the rematch, in 4 rounds a fighter who at that time was considered to have one of the best chins in boxing today.

But why am i telling you this anyway ? its not like you've seen the fight anyway or have any clue about Lucian Bute. You've got your nose so far up Carl Froch's ass. You haven't got time to learn about the sport, or actually watch fights and base your own opinion.

And do you want to get humilated again ? with a bet regarding Carl Froch vs Lucian Bute ?

All Carl Froch has is toughness and good power thats it, his defense is shit. His footwork is poor, and his punch technique has a lot to be desired.

Yet you had the cheek to tell us he's the best Super Middleweight of this generation ? get the fuck outta here.

Ok Ice, say we agree with you that technically he got up and was saved by the bell do you think however he was in a fit state to continue had the fight gone on?

How far away from defeat was he? 30 seconds, 20, 10, maybe 3?

If there was ANY time in that round left Bute would have stopped, so ok he was saved by the bell but he was completely out on his feet and could not have stood against Andrade for a moment longer.

Hardly a glorious victory.

So what ? how many times has a fighter been totally gone in the last round ?

How much longer could SRL have lasted vs Marvin Hagler ? how much longer could Larry Holmes have lasted vs Ken Norton ? how much longer could Thomas Hearns have lasted vs SRL in there 2nd fight ?

Your talking hypothetically and it means nothing in the end, because Lucian Bute showed great heart in getting up and surviving. And going by the IBF rules no rules were broken and he won legitmately.

You could also say Carl Froch was lucky to stop Jermain Taylor, after getting dominated for most of the fight, with only seconds left. But he won in the end so what does it matter ?

And Lucian Bute erased in doubt in a rematch, by sitting down on his punches more. And he destroyed Librado Andrade so IMO its over and done with.

You seem to hate Lucian Bute for some reason, which is fair enough and thats your choice. But he has beaten some solid tough opponents, not the best but there solid fighters, and he has a solid resume at the moment. While also being a world champion since 2007.

And it can only get better, atleast Lucian Bute hasn't been beaten handily in his last two fights.

Infact Carl Froch has lost atleast 28 rounds, in his last 4 bouts. Where as Lucian Bute has been destroying his opposition, Carl Froch is an overachiever. And Lucian Bute will prove you wrong and anyother doubters.

And by the way you agreed before about Lucian Bute winning legitmately. Yet now you constantly bring it up to discredit Lucian Bute, i don't get that at all.

If you don't like him thats fair enough, but don't change your mind on something. Just because you dislike Lucian Bute.

[DaxxKahn]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

Uhh no he didn't Knock him the fuck out, otherwise he would of had the W next to his name.

The only round he was ever in the fight was the 12th round, where Lucian Bute made a mistake by trading. But he got up and won get over it, there was no long count thats a myth. Lucian Bute got up in 8 seconds, the ref telling Librado Andrade off, has fuck all to do with Lucian Bute winning.

Because the time in the round was already over, how many fucking times do i have to keep telling you this ? im sick of you spouting off so called facts when your talking out your ass.

And he crushed Librado Andrade in the rematch, in 4 rounds a fighter who at that time was considered to have one of the best chins in boxing today.

But why am i telling you this anyway ? its not like you've seen the fight anyway or have any clue about Lucian Bute. You've got your nose so far up Carl Froch's ass. You haven't got time to learn about the sport, or actually watch fights and base your own opinion.

And do you want to get humilated again ? with a bet regarding Carl Froch vs Lucian Bute ?

All Carl Froch has is toughness and good power thats it, his defense is shit. His footwork is poor, and his punch technique has a lot to be desired.

Yet you had the cheek to tell us he's the best Super Middleweight of this generation ? get the fuck outta here.

Another thing is the S6 benefits Bute in a HUGE way...He has the opportunity to have the other guys expose each others weakness while he takes notes ..

He is a smart guy I think he will study those before putting on clinics...

These guys talk about Froch and AA with power but neglect to realize Bute has a higher KO ratio then anyone in the S6 plus any comnmon opp he has with any he beat in a more convincing fashion....

[JonnyFolds]

how many times have i got to say this until it`ll get into your thick skulls

Librado Andrade knocked lucien bute the f*ck out. What the hell do you think the super6 would do to him if someone who isnt even fit to spar with the likes of carl froch, mikkel kessler is sending him to lala land.

Bute is a world class fighter for as long as he stays in canada fighting B rate opponents at the bell centre while the super6 goes on. The moment the super6 ends and bute works up the balls to fight in the states is the moment lucien bute doesnt even make the top 8 super middleweights in the world

FACT

Uhh no he didn't Knock him the fuck out, otherwise he would of had the W next to his name.

The only round he was ever in the fight was the 12th round, where Lucian Bute made a mistake by trading. But he got up and won get over it, there was no long count thats a myth. Lucian Bute got up in 8 seconds, the ref telling Librado Andrade off, has fuck all to do with Lucian Bute winning.

Because the time in the round was already over, how many fucking times do i have to keep telling you this ? im sick of you spouting off so called facts when your talking out your ass.

And he crushed Librado Andrade in the rematch, in 4 rounds a fighter who at that time was considered to have one of the best chins in boxing today.

But why am i telling you this anyway ? its not like you've seen the fight anyway or have any clue about Lucian Bute. You've got your nose so far up Carl Froch's ass. You haven't got time to learn about the sport, or actually watch fights and base your own opinion.

And do you want to get humilated again ? with a bet regarding Carl Froch vs Lucian Bute ?

All Carl Froch has is toughness and good power thats it, his defense is shit. His footwork is poor, and his punch technique has a lot to be desired.

Yet you had the cheek to tell us he's the best Super Middleweight of this generation ? get the fuck outta here.

Another thing is the S6 benefits Bute in a HUGE way...He has the opportunity to have the other guys expose each others weakness while he takes notes ..

He is a smart guy I think he will study those before putting on clinics...

These guys talk about Froch and AA with power but neglect to realize Bute has a higher KO ratio then anyone in the S6 plus any comnmon opp he has with any he beat in a more convincing fashion....

Nope. Bute is at home in Canada doing what makes him $$. Selling out venues and shit. He's smart, but don't think he's that good. I can't say I know why he didn't get in, but if he can fight mismatches at home and sell out the place, more power to him.

And before you guys knock Miranda too hard. Remember this guy took Arthur Abraham to life and death.
Intersting parody with Andrade doing the exact same thing to Bute.

[JonnyFolds]

I just don't go with the obvious in this argument. You are asking if the two guys who don't have a loss are the best SMWs. I hope everyone has some say in what makes a fighter the best, what makes him undefeated, and what makes a champ (not a paper champ). Big difference between all of those.

The simple answer is NO. Even after this weekend's madness it's not widely apparent they are the best. Especially not Bute, if I am looking at his demolition of Miranda. That win says almost nothing to me. Miranda was probably a 15:1 dog.

You know what would make this tournament really really interesting Watching Green mop the floor with Ward. If you only waited until after the Green-Ward fight, then you could probably make a better case for Bute, but right now, not for both..

Right now, I'm just happy all these guys are swimming in the same pool, going to new territories, and digging deeper than they ever had to. All of these guys are great fighters. I knew leaving Bute out would just make people for want of a fight that can't happen. But, look on the bright side.. All these guys would have been filling their resumees with guys like Bute has.