Is Boxing a couple years away from a huge decline?

[skel1983]

I don' think there will be a huge decline but if you look at the p4p top ten now and look at it say 5-10 years ago it is a lot weaker.

[HattonTheHammer]

I don' think there will be a huge decline but if you look at the p4p top ten now and look at it say 5-10 years ago it is a lot weaker.

pacquiao, mayweather, mosley, klitschko brothers, williams, gamboa, dawson, marquez, lopez, hosegawa, donaire, darchinyan

Is it??

[Boxer4life]

there are stars on the horizon believe me, boxing will never have its decline its been around for centuries

[0james0]

Promoters make stars, simple as that.

Who is to say that in 2 years we don't see something completley unimaginable like Khan beat an over the hill Floyd? Prob will never happen, but you never know, suddenly then Khan is PFP #1 and fans around the world are waiting to see him fight Cotto who has now grown into an unstoppable force.

Anything can happen and the promoters will twist and turn to make things look rosey.

[Kev]

Promoters make stars, simple as that.

Who is to say that in 2 years we don't see something completley unimaginable like Khan beat an over the hill Floyd? Prob will never happen, but you never know, suddenly then Khan is PFP #1 and fans around the world are waiting to see him fight Cotto who has now grown into an unstoppable force.

Anything can happen and the promoters will twist and turn to make things look rosey.

I disagree. Promoters would love to make stars, and they certainly try, Jeff Lacy, Antonio Margarito spring to mind.

But these guys didn't make big PPV money.....at all.

At the end of the day a star in boxing is someone who can smash the 1 million PPV buys barrier and that's what I'm concerned boxing may not have once Floyd and Manny leave.

Guys like Berto, Dawson, Ward, Dirrell etc are all good exciting fighters, but believe me they have a long way to go before they could command 500,000 buys let alone be a star draw.

Outside of Floyd and Manny there are no stars left in boxing really. We have one big fight, Wlad vs Haye, and not a whole lot else.

I'm not talking about good, exciting, action fights, there will be plenty of those, I'm talking about fights that attract more than the hardcore boxing fans.

The Super Six tournament for example is NOT doing that, at least in the UK, where only about 300 people are even aware it's happening.

Showtime fighters just aren't stars. Look at Vazquez Marquez. A great trilogy, one of the best of all time, and yet only the hardcore boxing fans will ever heard of these two fighters because they weren't draws like Gatti and Ward.

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I am concerned that once the top two fighters in the world leave, and Wlad disposes of Haye, boxing will become secondary to MMA in PPV sales and commercial revenue.

I think there is a real chance of this happening.

[boozeboxer]

Promoters make stars, simple as that.

Who is to say that in 2 years we don't see something completley unimaginable like Khan beat an over the hill Floyd? Prob will never happen, but you never know, suddenly then Khan is PFP #1 and fans around the world are waiting to see him fight Cotto who has now grown into an unstoppable force.

Anything can happen and the promoters will twist and turn to make things look rosey.

I disagree. Promoters would love to make stars, and they certainly try, Jeff Lacy, Antonio Margarito spring to mind.

But these guys didn't make big PPV money.....at all.

At the end of the day a star in boxing is someone who can smash the 1 million PPV buys barrier and that's what I'm concerned boxing may not have once Floyd and Manny leave.

Guys like Berto, Dawson, Ward, Dirrell etc are all good exciting fighters, but believe me they have a long way to go before they could command 500,000 buys let alone be a star draw.

Outside of Floyd and Manny there are no stars left in boxing really. We have one big fight, Wlad vs Haye, and not a whole lot else.

I'm not talking about good, exciting, action fights, there will be plenty of those, I'm talking about fights that attract more than the hardcore boxing fans.

The Super Six tournament for example is NOT doing that, at least in the UK, where only about 300 people are even aware it's happening.

Showtime fighters just aren't stars. Look at Vazquez Marquez. A great trilogy, one of the best of all time, and yet only the hardcore boxing fans will ever heard of these two fighters because they weren't draws like Gatti and Ward.

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I am concerned that once the top two fighters in the world leave, and Wlad disposes of Haye, boxing will become secondary to MMA in PPV sales and commercial revenue.

I think there is a real chance of this happening.

Uncle Bob knew that Tony Margarito had very limited appeal as an aging fighter who did not speak english. In fact, I think he did a helluva job with what he had.

[boozeboxer]

Promoters make stars, simple as that.

Who is to say that in 2 years we don't see something completley unimaginable like Khan beat an over the hill Floyd? Prob will never happen, but you never know, suddenly then Khan is PFP #1 and fans around the world are waiting to see him fight Cotto who has now grown into an unstoppable force.

Anything can happen and the promoters will twist and turn to make things look rosey.

I disagree. Promoters would love to make stars, and they certainly try, Jeff Lacy, Antonio Margarito spring to mind.

But these guys didn't make big PPV money.....at all.

At the end of the day a star in boxing is someone who can smash the 1 million PPV buys barrier and that's what I'm concerned boxing may not have once Floyd and Manny leave.

Guys like Berto, Dawson, Ward, Dirrell etc are all good exciting fighters, but believe me they have a long way to go before they could command 500,000 buys let alone be a star draw.

Outside of Floyd and Manny there are no stars left in boxing really. We have one big fight, Wlad vs Haye, and not a whole lot else.

I'm not talking about good, exciting, action fights, there will be plenty of those, I'm talking about fights that attract more than the hardcore boxing fans.

The Super Six tournament for example is NOT doing that, at least in the UK, where only about 300 people are even aware it's happening.

Showtime fighters just aren't stars. Look at Vazquez Marquez. A great trilogy, one of the best of all time, and yet only the hardcore boxing fans will ever heard of these two fighters because they weren't draws like Gatti and Ward.

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I am concerned that once the top two fighters in the world leave, and Wlad disposes of Haye, boxing will become secondary to MMA in PPV sales and commercial revenue.

I think there is a real chance of this happening.

Why does boxing still have a stronghold then on PPV sales? Because the people that like MMA don't have the money to plop down 50 on a fight. Demographically, by the numbers I think they are young uneducated people.

The MMA people are trying to figure out a way to get more of this money, but they are competing with landlords, tattoo shops, and value meals.

[Scrap]

The 1st time I heard this was 50 years ago, nothing changes

[generalbulldog]

The 1st time I heard this was 50 years ago, nothing changes

Exactly there was an old article, I think from sports illustrated that I read a while back, it was probably a 1961 or 1962 issue, and they said the same thing. And we all know how the upcoming years turned out. then when A guy like Ali came and left the scene, they say boxing is dead, then came Tyson a few years later on the scene and the battle of the 4 legends in the 80s. The 90s were great also, the 00s has been pretty good too.

This whole boxing is dead or will be dead has been around for decades. Same shit every year and every decade.

[Kev]

Promoters make stars, simple as that.

Who is to say that in 2 years we don't see something completley unimaginable like Khan beat an over the hill Floyd? Prob will never happen, but you never know, suddenly then Khan is PFP #1 and fans around the world are waiting to see him fight Cotto who has now grown into an unstoppable force.

Anything can happen and the promoters will twist and turn to make things look rosey.

I disagree. Promoters would love to make stars, and they certainly try, Jeff Lacy, Antonio Margarito spring to mind.

But these guys didn't make big PPV money.....at all.

At the end of the day a star in boxing is someone who can smash the 1 million PPV buys barrier and that's what I'm concerned boxing may not have once Floyd and Manny leave.

Guys like Berto, Dawson, Ward, Dirrell etc are all good exciting fighters, but believe me they have a long way to go before they could command 500,000 buys let alone be a star draw.

Outside of Floyd and Manny there are no stars left in boxing really. We have one big fight, Wlad vs Haye, and not a whole lot else.

I'm not talking about good, exciting, action fights, there will be plenty of those, I'm talking about fights that attract more than the hardcore boxing fans.

The Super Six tournament for example is NOT doing that, at least in the UK, where only about 300 people are even aware it's happening.

Showtime fighters just aren't stars. Look at Vazquez Marquez. A great trilogy, one of the best of all time, and yet only the hardcore boxing fans will ever heard of these two fighters because they weren't draws like Gatti and Ward.

Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I am concerned that once the top two fighters in the world leave, and Wlad disposes of Haye, boxing will become secondary to MMA in PPV sales and commercial revenue.

I think there is a real chance of this happening.

Why does boxing still have a stronghold then on PPV sales? Because the people that like MMA don't have the money to plop down 50 on a fight. Demographically, by the numbers I think they are young uneducated people.

The MMA people are trying to figure out a way to get more of this money, but they are competing with landlords, tattoo shops, and value meals.

I think the UFC is already generating more PPV revenue annually than HBO now. UFC 100 took 1.5 million buys which makes it the 5th most succesful PPV ever behind the likes of Mayweather De La Hoya and Tyson Lewis.

They are consistently getting in the high hundred thousands for every UFC show, and that's whilst boxing still has Manny and Floyd.

My guess is that once those two leave the big UFC stars will be the stars of combat sports in general.

It is a very real possiblity.

And I know peoplesay boxing will always be number 1, but it hasn't had to compete with MMA until now.

I do think it's possible (not necessarily likely) that MMA will take over as the preferred contact combat sport over the next few years, unless boxing can get some fighters with real pulling power.

[kheserthorpe]

Why does boxing still have a stronghold then on PPV sales? Because the people that like MMA don't have the money to plop down 50 on a fight. Demographically, by the numbers I think they are young uneducated people.

The MMA people are trying to figure out a way to get more of this money, but they are competing with landlords, tattoo shops, and value meals.

Top 10 PPV buy rates, 2009

1. UFC 100: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, July 11, 1.6 million

2. Boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, Nov. 14, 1.25 million

3. Boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, Sept. 19, 1.05 millon

4. UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn, Jan. 31, 920,000 buys

5. UFC 101: Penn vs. Kenny Florian/Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, Aug. 8, 850,000

6. Boxing: Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton, May 2, 825,000

7t. UFC 107: Penn vs. Diego Sanchez, Dec. 12, 650,000

7t. UFC 97: Silva vs. Thales Leites/Chuck Liddell vs. Mauricio Rua, April 18, 650,000

9. UFC 98: Lyoto Machida vs. Rashad Evans/Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra, May 23, 635,000

10. Wrestling: WWE WrestleMania 25, April 5, 582,000 buys



Pac vs. Mayweather would outsell anything the UFC puts together, but the UFC is putting up consistent solid PPV numbers.

That said, that is 'UFC' _not_ MMA. MMA events by other promoters featuring top fighters haven't pulled anywhere near these numbers.

I don't think its that boxing is losing popularity to MMA so much as it is that the single promoter 'brand name' model is a lot easier to sell to casual fans. There are things to like and dislike, but its easier for casual fans to simply say 'oh, its UFC'. Much like people can be a casual fan of the NFL, the NBA, NASCAR while only knowing a few participants. People who like MMA can easily watch UFC ppvs, which promote following UFC PPVs, and showcase on the card up and coming UFC sponsored fighters who may be fighting in future title bouts, etc. By contrast, one of my co-workers likes boxing, started taking lessons, his favourite fighter is PWill and I have to let him know when he's fighting because he wouldn't know otherwise.

Being aware of up and coming boxers takes considerable effort relative to learning about up and coming MMA fighters.

[eagle]

I believe for a guy to become a big PPV star he really needs to beat a well known older established fighter to get him in the limelight....

With DLH, other than the gold medal win his name was really mad beating Chavez and Whitaker.
Mosely really became known when he beat ODLH
Floyd became known when he beat Oscar and Gatti.
Cotto's name got more recognition when he beat Mosely.
Who knew Hopkins before he beat Tito and Oscar?

The trouble is the real big names dont fight to many up and comers these days.

Dawson would be a big name now if he could have fought and beat Hopkins, Jones and Calzaghe. But those guys werent gonna fight him when they would have a big chance at losing for little money.

Another example is the winner of the super 6. That guy will get heaps of credit from the hardcore boxing fans but not much from your casual fan. Put him in with Calzaghe or Hopkins tho and if he wins he is a much bigger star overnight.

[boozeboxer]

Why does boxing still have a stronghold then on PPV sales? Because the people that like MMA don't have the money to plop down 50 on a fight. Demographically, by the numbers I think they are young uneducated people.

The MMA people are trying to figure out a way to get more of this money, but they are competing with landlords, tattoo shops, and value meals.

Top 10 PPV buy rates, 2009

1. UFC 100: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, July 11, 1.6 million

2. Boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, Nov. 14, 1.25 million

3. Boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, Sept. 19, 1.05 millon

4. UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn, Jan. 31, 920,000 buys

5. UFC 101: Penn vs. Kenny Florian/Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, Aug. 8, 850,000

6. Boxing: Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton, May 2, 825,000

7t. UFC 107: Penn vs. Diego Sanchez, Dec. 12, 650,000

7t. UFC 97: Silva vs. Thales Leites/Chuck Liddell vs. Mauricio Rua, April 18, 650,000

9. UFC 98: Lyoto Machida vs. Rashad Evans/Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra, May 23, 635,000

10. Wrestling: WWE WrestleMania 25, April 5, 582,000 buys



Pac vs. Mayweather would outsell anything the UFC puts together, but the UFC is putting up consistent solid PPV numbers.

That said, that is 'UFC' _not_ MMA. MMA events by other promoters featuring top fighters haven't pulled anywhere near these numbers.

I don't think its that boxing is losing popularity to MMA so much as it is that the single promoter 'brand name' model is a lot easier to sell to casual fans. There are things to like and dislike, but its easier for casual fans to simply say 'oh, its UFC'. Much like people can be a casual fan of the NFL, the NBA, NASCAR while only knowing a few participants. People who like MMA can easily watch UFC ppvs, which promote following UFC PPVs, and showcase on the card up and coming UFC sponsored fighters who may be fighting in future title bouts, etc. By contrast, one of my co-workers likes boxing, started taking lessons, his favourite fighter is PWill and I have to let him know when he's fighting because he wouldn't know otherwise.

Being aware of up and coming boxers takes considerable effort relative to learning about up and coming MMA fighters.

I would completely agree with the effort to learn about upcoming bouts, except for superfights. Cheers.

[Kev]

Why does boxing still have a stronghold then on PPV sales? Because the people that like MMA don't have the money to plop down 50 on a fight. Demographically, by the numbers I think they are young uneducated people.

The MMA people are trying to figure out a way to get more of this money, but they are competing with landlords, tattoo shops, and value meals.

Top 10 PPV buy rates, 2009

1. UFC 100: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, July 11, 1.6 million

2. Boxing: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, Nov. 14, 1.25 million

3. Boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez, Sept. 19, 1.05 millon

4. UFC 94: Georges St. Pierre vs. B.J. Penn, Jan. 31, 920,000 buys

5. UFC 101: Penn vs. Kenny Florian/Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, Aug. 8, 850,000

6. Boxing: Pacquiao vs. Ricky Hatton, May 2, 825,000

7t. UFC 107: Penn vs. Diego Sanchez, Dec. 12, 650,000

7t. UFC 97: Silva vs. Thales Leites/Chuck Liddell vs. Mauricio Rua, April 18, 650,000

9. UFC 98: Lyoto Machida vs. Rashad Evans/Matt Hughes vs. Matt Serra, May 23, 635,000

10. Wrestling: WWE WrestleMania 25, April 5, 582,000 buys



Pac vs. Mayweather would outsell anything the UFC puts together, but the UFC is putting up consistent solid PPV numbers.

That said, that is 'UFC' _not_ MMA. MMA events by other promoters featuring top fighters haven't pulled anywhere near these numbers.

I don't think its that boxing is losing popularity to MMA so much as it is that the single promoter 'brand name' model is a lot easier to sell to casual fans. There are things to like and dislike, but its easier for casual fans to simply say 'oh, its UFC'. Much like people can be a casual fan of the NFL, the NBA, NASCAR while only knowing a few participants. People who like MMA can easily watch UFC ppvs, which promote following UFC PPVs, and showcase on the card up and coming UFC sponsored fighters who may be fighting in future title bouts, etc. By contrast, one of my co-workers likes boxing, started taking lessons, his favourite fighter is PWill and I have to let him know when he's fighting because he wouldn't know otherwise.

Being aware of up and coming boxers takes considerable effort relative to learning about up and coming MMA fighters.

This post is very interesting, and concerning I feel.

If you look at that you HAVE to be worried for boxing as the premier combat sport.

I mean the year's biggest superfight, the welterweight showdown between Mayweather and Mosley takes less PPV's than the Lesnar Mir showdown

That's alarming frankly and when Manny and Floyd leave I can't see any of the current lot getting over 450,000 buys.

Meanwhile MMA is going from strength to strength and guys like Lesnar, St Pierre and Silva are only going to increase in popularity.

[albsur2006]

Well Floyd, took a long time to become the star he is now. Oscar De La Hoya took much less time because of his good looks, gold medal, and Mexican following. But the one thing that Floyd ABSOLUTELY has right is personality. I'm not saying that he became a star the honorable way like maybe Pacquiao did but Pacquiao's style will allow him to be a big attraction. Tell me how Floyd, who's style isn't the most crowd pleasing, is able to generate so much interest? It's the aura of invincibility, it's the swagger. Boxers must realize this. It's the same reason why Shane Mosley ruined his earning potential and his importance in boxing. Shane Mosley was on top of the world after beating Oscar the first time, the guy was good looking and fun to watch. Instead of Shane taking a couple decent fights to look really good and build up profile but Shane thought like a fighter and took Winky Wright's challenge. I mean that's all great that he fought Winky Wright but that's a dumba$$ business decision. He should have let that fact that you didn't take the Winky fight right away or "ducked" the fight get the media interested; let them start finding out more about Winky and also build up his profile so that when you DO fight him, it's a bigger fight. But Shane Mosley didn't get it. And that basically amounted to a fight that did horrible business and that nobody outside of boxing fans cared about. Just because you don't take a fight doesn't mean you're scared, sometimes, you have to think about business. That's why I hope the following fighters are smart about their career and develop their star power. Doing that will help keep boxing alive:

Andre Ward: Great fighter, good to watch, nice guy, undefeated, not sure if he has star quality though. Only drawback is that he's kinda boring.

James Kirkland (after he gets out): Vicious fighting style, great backstory, crazy personality, undefeated, knockout puncher, he's like a mini-Tyson that could captivate the public. Only drawback is that he's not at a heavier weight. He could be a HUGE star in the future.

Amir Khan - Flashy, already seems to get the point that it's about having a CAREER and not just rushing into big fights. Has P4P skills, good size, and great speed. Already a huge star overseas. Only drawback is 1st round KO loss detracts from aura of invincibility. He should be a star as long as he doesn't get knocked out again.

JuanMa Lopez - Good Puerto Rican following. Vibrant and outgoing personality. Will talk a little trash. P4P boxing skills, great power, good technique. Undefeated. Only drawback is that he's a small guy but if he finds his way to lightweight undefeated he'll be huge.

Devon Alexander - Great boxer. Very slick boxer. Not the greatest to watch. Will be hard to beat. Personality will get him far. Undefeated. Cocky guy. American's love to HATE ultra talented yet cocky athletes. People will eventually pay to see him lose a la Floyd. Only drawback is his fighting style.

Andre Berto - Already has a good following in Florida. Great power. Great makeup. Sometimes great to watch. Undefeated. Already champion. Good personality. He can be what Shane Mosley should have been. Only drawback is that he looks like he'll outgrow 147 and that may be to his detriment because he's not big enough to be at 154 and 160 I think.

Saul Alvarez - Apparently a big star in Mexico already. Quirkish looks gives people something to talk about. Skills leave a little bit to be desired but he's still young. He looks like he really could become something like Gatti. Great to watch and vulnerable yet finds a way to win. Only drawback is that he looks like he doesn't have THAT much upside as a boxer.

David Haye - Heavyweight that fights with real passion and heart. Amazing power, great skills, great personality. Able to mix it up in the ring and out of it. Already a big star overseas. His fights aren't the greatest to watch all the time but he keeps you interested because he can land a huge punch at any moment. Only drawback is that he may be chinny and also he might get KTFO by one of the Klitschkos.

There a good amount more that I can name too. Boxing will be fine if their handlers handle them right. If it was up to boxing fans, fights would happen the minute we want to see them. We would blow our loads too early all the time. Sometimes, it's good to let things build.