Question about Counterpunching and range

[HerbM]

Good read great thread.
The only other thing that comes to my mind is disruption of their moment.

With longer reaches (if the timing isnt going your way) I think you have to become very aware of maintaining your desired distance and have control of their arm while you make them react.

If you break it down into ranges then you can disrupt their movement as they come, before they are in full contact range and then, because you know their reaction will be the reverse to where you lightly pressured their arm you can be moving into your desired angle already, hitting into the space they just left for you.

This gets easier to time the longer the fight goes on because things are getting less snappy and larger men if they tire and lean or over commit to the jab; like using it like an extended aerial;then you can time it easier.

Recognizing a wide stance and if their front leg moves directly under their jab can be a bonus, If you so much as touch that foot before it hits the ground with your toe ; their jab is dead in the water you just have to guide the arm where you want it as they react.



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I like these ideas, Andre. You left a lot unwritten, just hinting at the ideas and it got me to thinking about this.


Of course, thinking about mechanics always takes me back to my Systema practice, especially that idea of 'touching' the foot before it settles. This is a taught and practiced technique in Systema.

When your attacker moves his foot you push it aside (usually, but other directions can work sometimes) -- it's nothing like a trip, but rather just forcing him to set his foot down a little (usually only a few inches) further out, or forward, or whatever than he really intended.

This plays hell on his balance, stance, and posture (sometimes it can lead to his falling down but that is not the primary goal).

If you make it TOO obvious, it might be illegal in boxing, or get you a warning, but if it is subtle -- "Hey he moved his foot, so did I, not my fault that my foot got there first..." it can really disrupt a fighter.

We're ready for it so our movement stays on balance while he is desperately trying to first correct his balance and posture, before he can more again smoothly.

On the first part my AMOK! (knife defense) training partner and I were working some tactical ideas today that are related, but I don't know if that would be of interest here -- disrupting his attacks rather than actually attacking him directly, or attacking his arm while my body is still out of his range.

(This stuff is of course much more obvious when dueling with knives since cuts are so easy to get on his striking arm or hand, but it does have some overlap with boxing or other striking.)

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HerbM

[Andre]

Good read great thread.
The only other thing that comes to my mind is disruption of their moment.

With longer reaches (if the timing isnt going your way) I think you have to become very aware of maintaining your desired distance and have control of their arm while you make them react.

If you break it down into ranges then you can disrupt their movement as they come, before they are in full contact range and then, because you know their reaction will be the reverse to where you lightly pressured their arm you can be moving into your desired angle already, hitting into the space they just left for you.

This gets easier to time the longer the fight goes on because things are getting less snappy and larger men if they tire and lean or over commit to the jab; like using it like an extended aerial;then you can time it easier.

Recognizing a wide stance and if their front leg moves directly under their jab can be a bonus, If you so much as touch that foot before it hits the ground with your toe ; their jab is dead in the water you just have to guide the arm where you want it as they react.



.

I like these ideas, Andre. You left a lot unwritten, just hinting at the ideas and it got me to thinking about this.


Of course, thinking about mechanics always takes me back to my Systema practice, especially that idea of 'touching' the foot before it settles. This is a taught and practiced technique in Systema.

When your attacker moves his foot you push it aside (usually, but other directions can work sometimes) -- it's nothing like a trip, but rather just forcing him to set his foot down a little (usually only a few inches) further out, or forward, or whatever than he really intended.

This plays hell on his balance, stance, and posture (sometimes it can lead to his falling down but that is not the primary goal).

If you make it TOO obvious, it might be illegal in boxing, or get you a warning, but if it is subtle -- "Hey he moved his foot, so did I, not my fault that my foot got there first..." it can really disrupt a fighter.

We're ready for it so our movement stays on balance while he is desperately trying to first correct his balance and posture, before he can more again smoothly.

On the first part my AMOK! (knife defense) training partner and I were working some tactical ideas today that are related, but I don't know if that would be of interest here -- disrupting his attacks rather than actually attacking him directly, or attacking his arm while my body is still out of his range.

(This stuff is of course much more obvious when dueling with knives since cuts are so easy to get on his striking arm or hand, but it does have some overlap with boxing or other striking.)

--
HerbM

Cool .
Theres a place for it.
Just look at fencing then look at utilizing the jab as the front attack and guard and we have a grounding instantly.

I've always thought that some parts of other arts would find a place in boxing. Not everything and not all of the time but just in some instances, there are proven things that work, so I think why not use them if you're built that way.

Your right too you have set these things up from the start and they have to be the type who'll play into it too.You wouldn't just go for it out of the blue.
And theres alot left unwritten.

Imagine someone over committed :they land their front foot in between your legs, so you open up for them a touch next time to catch them; but you are in control of their lead elbow point with your rear arm as you go square slightly and they are landing: (this can occur on the move backwards if you take your lead leg back as they come, then your rear leg is now your front leg and your rear arm is now your front arm and your leg is on the outside of their landing foot :-)
Adjust for the new distance,release and land a hook over the top of their arm and drag their foot back towards you at the same time and watch what happens. ( finish them).