Pac's not ready for Floyd....

[El Kabong]

I guess this post prooves that having 26,000 posts still doesnt make you a guru. I'm really not sure where to start. Mosely was purely outboxed by Cotto so Im not sure where you get off in saying Cotto doesnt have fast hands and cant counter, no one was saying that before Pacquiao dismantled him. The ONLY thing that Cotto has ever lacked in is a solid chin. You didn't mention Clottey, who threw every bit as much as mosley did against Mayweather. I honestly don't remember Mosley throwing one meaningful shot after the second round. No one ever mentions Pac's fights with Morrales, Barrera, or JMM? JMM simply had no business being at Welterweight. In their respectable weight classes, pound for pound those three are better than an aged mosely, aged DLH and so on. I really don't know why you even brought DLH and Hatton into the topic. In case you forgot Floyd had a split decision win over Oscar who Pac TKO'ed. In case you forgot it took Floyd 10 rounds to knock Hatton out while it took Pac 2! Im not sure where your going with this? On top of every other bit of nonsense in this post, you think Mayweather KO's Pacquiao? In case you havn't noticed Pac doesn't get hit alot and when he does he simply throws his arms out horizontally as if to say, "is that all you got"? If an aged Mosely can tag Mayweather like he did in the second, then he's got a heck of a chance of being dropped by Manny. Honestly, everyone knows that if Pacquiao was in the ring in that second round he would have followed up that shot with about 20 more, and I can honestly say that even with Floyds unblemished record i wouldn't be suprised to see him be KO'ed. Pac has a killers instinct and theres no way he'll let Floyd recover his feet if and when he lands that big shot!

Yes Shane was outboxed by Cotto but Shane is still faster with his hands than Miguel....Miguel #1 Used a solid jab to outbox Shane (as is the blueprint) and #2 his attack is based on timing....maybe this is me reading too much into it but Pacquiao is from the Phillipines and Asian countries have music with a totally different beat and rhythm to it and maybe that is what kept Cotto from timing Manny, but whatever it was Cotto was never right in that fight.

Clottey didn't offer much to Manny either, he just shelled up.

As for the Hatton fight, that means nothing to me...it took George Foreman 2 rounds to stop Joe Frazier and Ali ALWAYS had difficulty with Smokin Joe but beating Foreman was easy for him.

[zhubin]

I guess this post prooves that having 26,000 posts still doesnt make you a guru. I'm really not sure where to start. Mosely was purely outboxed by Cotto so Im not sure where you get off in saying Cotto doesnt have fast hands and cant counter, no one was saying that before Pacquiao dismantled him. The ONLY thing that Cotto has ever lacked in is a solid chin. You didn't mention Clottey, who threw every bit as much as mosley did against Mayweather. I honestly don't remember Mosley throwing one meaningful shot after the second round. No one ever mentions Pac's fights with Morrales, Barrera, or JMM? JMM simply had no business being at Welterweight. In their respectable weight classes, pound for pound those three are better than an aged mosely, aged DLH and so on. I really don't know why you even brought DLH and Hatton into the topic. In case you forgot Floyd had a split decision win over Oscar who Pac TKO'ed. In case you forgot it took Floyd 10 rounds to knock Hatton out while it took Pac 2! Im not sure where your going with this? On top of every other bit of nonsense in this post, you think Mayweather KO's Pacquiao? In case you havn't noticed Pac doesn't get hit alot and when he does he simply throws his arms out horizontally as if to say, "is that all you got"? If an aged Mosely can tag Mayweather like he did in the second, then he's got a heck of a chance of being dropped by Manny. Honestly, everyone knows that if Pacquiao was in the ring in that second round he would have followed up that shot with about 20 more, and I can honestly say that even with Floyds unblemished record i wouldn't be suprised to see him be KO'ed. Pac has a killers instinct and theres no way he'll let Floyd recover his feet if and when he lands that big shot!

Yes Shane was outboxed by Cotto but Shane is still faster with his hands than Miguel....Miguel #1 Used a solid jab to outbox Shane (as is the blueprint) and #2 his attack is based on timing....maybe this is me reading too much into it but Pacquiao is from the Phillipines and Asian countries have music with a totally different beat and rhythm to it and maybe that is what kept Cotto from timing Manny, but whatever it was Cotto was never right in that fight.

Clottey didn't offer much to Manny either, he just shelled up.

As for the Hatton fight, that means nothing to me...it took George Foreman 2 rounds to stop Joe Frazier and Ali ALWAYS had difficulty with Smokin Joe but beating Foreman was easy for him.

Exactly. Styles make fights..and Floyd's style and ability to adapt is all wrong for Manny. As I have mentioned on numerous occasions...the best fighter Pac has fought was Marquez. Marquez showed that a skilled counter puncher can give Pac fits. Well...Floyd is faster and more skilled than Marquez. Add to that...Floyd never tires...logically...you have to say Floyd is the favorite. Having said that...Pac is the best PRIME fighter Floyd has fought...so Mayweather will have his hands full. But ultimately...Manny fights one way. Whereas Floyd can adapt to anything and has a plan A, B, C etc. Add to that...Manny will have the election distractions...and Floyd basically lives in the gym. I see Floyd putting on a clinic.

[fan johnny]

I guess this post prooves that having 26,000 posts still doesnt make you a guru. I'm really not sure where to start. Mosely was purely outboxed by Cotto so Im not sure where you get off in saying Cotto doesnt have fast hands and cant counter, no one was saying that before Pacquiao dismantled him. The ONLY thing that Cotto has ever lacked in is a solid chin. You didn't mention Clottey, who threw every bit as much as mosley did against Mayweather. I honestly don't remember Mosley throwing one meaningful shot after the second round. No one ever mentions Pac's fights with Morrales, Barrera, or JMM? JMM simply had no business being at Welterweight. In their respectable weight classes, pound for pound those three are better than an aged mosely, aged DLH and so on. I really don't know why you even brought DLH and Hatton into the topic. In case you forgot Floyd had a split decision win over Oscar who Pac TKO'ed. In case you forgot it took Floyd 10 rounds to knock Hatton out while it took Pac 2! Im not sure where your going with this? On top of every other bit of nonsense in this post, you think Mayweather KO's Pacquiao? In case you havn't noticed Pac doesn't get hit alot and when he does he simply throws his arms out horizontally as if to say, "is that all you got"? If an aged Mosely can tag Mayweather like he did in the second, then he's got a heck of a chance of being dropped by Manny. Honestly, everyone knows that if Pacquiao was in the ring in that second round he would have followed up that shot with about 20 more, and I can honestly say that even with Floyds unblemished record i wouldn't be suprised to see him be KO'ed. Pac has a killers instinct and theres no way he'll let Floyd recover his feet if and when he lands that big shot!

Yes Shane was outboxed by Cotto but Shane is still faster with his hands than Miguel....Miguel #1 Used a solid jab to outbox Shane (as is the blueprint) and #2 his attack is based on timing....maybe this is me reading too much into it but Pacquiao is from the Phillipines and Asian countries have music with a totally different beat and rhythm to it and maybe that is what kept Cotto from timing Manny, but whatever it was Cotto was never right in that fight.

Clottey didn't offer much to Manny either, he just shelled up.

As for the Hatton fight, that means nothing to me...it took George Foreman 2 rounds to stop Joe Frazier and Ali ALWAYS had difficulty with Smokin Joe but beating Foreman was easy for him.

Exactly. Styles make fights..and Floyd's style and ability to adapt is all wrong for Manny. As I have mentioned on numerous occasions...the best fighter Pac has fought was Marquez. Marquez showed that a skilled counter puncher can give Pac fits. Well...Floyd is faster and more skilled than Marquez. Add to that...Floyd never tires...logically...you have to say Floyd is the favorite. Having said that...Pac is the best PRIME fighter Floyd has fought...so Mayweather will have his hands full. But ultimately...Manny fights one way. Whereas Floyd can adapt to anything and has a plan A, B, C etc. Add to that...Manny will have the election distractions...and Floyd basically lives in the gym. I see Floyd putting on a clinic.

Floyd doen't have the work rate in the ring to keep up with Manny. Floyd is the poster boy boxer in technique that looks really good for sure and if the outside boxer style was the only one that counted in the ring, Floyd would win hands down. This is not the case and Manny is the better fighter hands down. Whether or not Manny can KO Floyd remains to be seen. Manny's work rate is enough to overwhelm Floyd and easily win the fight by rounds. Standing toe-to-toe would be a huge mistake for Floyd. Floyd and his trainers don't appreciate the way Manny's style comes across to the viewer and often make comment that he is an amateur. This is a Fallacy and will ultimately be Floyd's doom.

[The Promoter]

Either way this fight needs to be made. PBF's beating of Mosley went pretty much as I expected although I was happily surprised by how aggressive Floyd was in the fight, especially after being hurt. Floyd knew that Shane has an aggressive style and not a very defensive or great counter puncher. Shane likes to fight from the lead and Floyd took it away. I believe the only reason Floyd got caught and hurt was only because he didn't force his "plan a" early enough, but when he did Mosley was lost. Make no mistake, against Manny Floyd would never fight this way and would go back to his cautious counter-punching style rather than force the issues and open himself up to Pacquiao. Manny is much more fundamentally sound than Mosley or Zab and hits just as hard (if not harder) than either of those two, with as much speed...I'm not calling Manny to beat Floyd (yet but PBF vs Manny is the "Superfight" that needs to be made...NOW.

[zhubin]

Yes Shane was outboxed by Cotto but Shane is still faster with his hands than Miguel....Miguel #1 Used a solid jab to outbox Shane (as is the blueprint) and #2 his attack is based on timing....maybe this is me reading too much into it but Pacquiao is from the Phillipines and Asian countries have music with a totally different beat and rhythm to it and maybe that is what kept Cotto from timing Manny, but whatever it was Cotto was never right in that fight.

Clottey didn't offer much to Manny either, he just shelled up.

As for the Hatton fight, that means nothing to me...it took George Foreman 2 rounds to stop Joe Frazier and Ali ALWAYS had difficulty with Smokin Joe but beating Foreman was easy for him.

Exactly. Styles make fights..and Floyd's style and ability to adapt is all wrong for Manny. As I have mentioned on numerous occasions...the best fighter Pac has fought was Marquez. Marquez showed that a skilled counter puncher can give Pac fits. Well...Floyd is faster and more skilled than Marquez. Add to that...Floyd never tires...logically...you have to say Floyd is the favorite. Having said that...Pac is the best PRIME fighter Floyd has fought...so Mayweather will have his hands full. But ultimately...Manny fights one way. Whereas Floyd can adapt to anything and has a plan A, B, C etc. Add to that...Manny will have the election distractions...and Floyd basically lives in the gym. I see Floyd putting on a clinic.

Floyd doen't have the work rate in the ring to keep up with Manny. Floyd is the poster boy boxer in technique that looks really good for sure and if the outside boxer style was the only one that counted in the ring, Floyd would win hands down. This is not the case and Manny is the better fighter hands down. Whether or not Manny can KO Floyd remains to be seen. Manny's work rate is enough to overwhelm Floyd and easily win the fight by rounds. Standing toe-to-toe would be a huge mistake for Floyd. Floyd and his trainers don't appreciate the way Manny's style comes across to the viewer and often make comment that he is an amateur. This is a Fallacy and will ultimately be Floyd's doom.

Some of you Pac fans are drinking too much of Freddy Roach's cool aid. Trying to pressure Floyd and overwhelm him has been proven to be ineffective. Again...Manny has not faced a great fighter on top of his game since Marquez. A lot of people are going to be scratching their heads if they think Manny's performances against Oscar, Hatton, and Cotto is any indicator of what will happen against Floyd. Those guys all had stamina issues...not to mention their skill set, speed, and smarts is no where near Floyd's. Please tell me...what will happen if Manny can't overwhelm Floyd with his workrate? I know it's hard for some of you Pac fans to imagine that. But lets just say it happens. Has he shown that he can box any other way? Is he a fighter that can adapt against a master technician who has tremendous stamina and speed? Floyd will get up for this fight. Once Manny realizes he cannot tire Floyd out or most likely even hurt him...game over. No over the hill, weight drained Oscar. No one dimensional brawler and weight yo yo er in Hatton. No mentally and physically weakened fighter in Cotto. He will be facing a guy who is just as fast as him. Just as good a stamina as him. But way more skill and smarts. Roach crapped in his pants when he saw Floyd take Shane's best punch and shake it off. Only person who might get KOed in this fight will be Manny. And I say all of that not being a big Floyd fan. I just know a better boxer when i see one.

[rjj tszyu]

I hate to admit it but let's just take a look see at who he has fought....

Pac: Hatton, De la Hoya, Cotto

None of those guys are great on defense, none of those guys have fast hands, none of those guys move their heads, none of those guys counter very well, and their footwork is very slow.

Have we been seeing an optical illusion? Does Manny look fast as hell because everyone he fights isn't that fast and so Manny looks like the Flash when he's fighting?

Whatever the reason, just looking at who he has fought building up to this fight it doesn't instill me with much confidence, I'm pulling for Pac but I have to say Floyd is going to win by KO.

Thats exactly how I see it (apart from I want Floyd to beat Pac), I think Pac has been matched up very well just recently and the best thing he ever did was make ODLH drop right down to 147, a weight he hadn't fought at for years. I have no doubt in my mind that a younger, faster Oscar who used to get up on his toes bouncing round and using the ring would have caused Pac nightmares, but he wasn't that fighter anymore and was basically a big name heavy bag for Pac to just practice on when they fought.

Floyd though is a genuine 147 fighter now, he has grown into the weight well and looks in perfect shape when he fights there. Also he is very fast and picks every shot very well and even if he doesn't quite have the speed of Pac (which i'm not sure about) his timing is waaaaaay better and we all know that Pac struggles with counter punchers and Floyd has to be the one of, if not the greatest counter puncher ever. His lead right hand vs Pac WILL cause serious trouble for the southpaw and most importantly Floyds boxing brain will be like nothing else Pac has ever faced before. I see a stoppage for Floyd around the 9th round.

[generalbulldog]

Exactly. Styles make fights..and Floyd's style and ability to adapt is all wrong for Manny. As I have mentioned on numerous occasions...the best fighter Pac has fought was Marquez. Marquez showed that a skilled counter puncher can give Pac fits. Well...Floyd is faster and more skilled than Marquez. Add to that...Floyd never tires...logically...you have to say Floyd is the favorite. Having said that...Pac is the best PRIME fighter Floyd has fought...so Mayweather will have his hands full. But ultimately...Manny fights one way. Whereas Floyd can adapt to anything and has a plan A, B, C etc. Add to that...Manny will have the election distractions...and Floyd basically lives in the gym. I see Floyd putting on a clinic.

Floyd doen't have the work rate in the ring to keep up with Manny. Floyd is the poster boy boxer in technique that looks really good for sure and if the outside boxer style was the only one that counted in the ring, Floyd would win hands down. This is not the case and Manny is the better fighter hands down. Whether or not Manny can KO Floyd remains to be seen. Manny's work rate is enough to overwhelm Floyd and easily win the fight by rounds. Standing toe-to-toe would be a huge mistake for Floyd. Floyd and his trainers don't appreciate the way Manny's style comes across to the viewer and often make comment that he is an amateur. This is a Fallacy and will ultimately be Floyd's doom.

Some of you Pac fans are drinking too much of Freddy Roach's cool aid. Trying to pressure Floyd and overwhelm him has been proven to be ineffective. Again...Manny has not faced a great fighter on top of his game since Marquez. A lot of people are going to be scratching their heads if they think Manny's performances against Oscar, Hatton, and Cotto is any indicator of what will happen against Floyd. Those guys all had stamina issues...not to mention their skill set, speed, and smarts is no where near Floyd's. Please tell me...what will happen if Manny can't overwhelm Floyd with his workrate? I know it's hard for some of you Pac fans to imagine that. But lets just say it happens. Has he shown that he can box any other way? Is he a fighter that can adapt against a master technician who has tremendous stamina and speed? Floyd will get up for this fight. Once Manny realizes he cannot tire Floyd out or most likely even hurt him...game over. No over the hill, weight drained Oscar. No one dimensional brawler and weight yo yo er in Hatton. No mentally and physically weakened fighter in Cotto. He will be facing a guy who is just as fast as him. Just as good a stamina as him. But way more skill and smarts. Roach crapped in his pants when he saw Floyd take Shane's best punch and shake it off. Only person who might get KOed in this fight will be Manny. And I say all of that not being a big Floyd fan. I just know a better boxer when i see one.

I don't think we should go there with discrediting a guy's accomplishments and pick holes in his resume, because it could be done with any fighter ( I did it with Pac before but it was done as to rile up his fans and wasn't serious). I favor Floyd slightly in a upcoming match but no way is it that cut and dry.

[Gandalf]

Floyd doen't have the work rate in the ring to keep up with Manny. Floyd is the poster boy boxer in technique that looks really good for sure and if the outside boxer style was the only one that counted in the ring, Floyd would win hands down. This is not the case and Manny is the better fighter hands down. Whether or not Manny can KO Floyd remains to be seen. Manny's work rate is enough to overwhelm Floyd and easily win the fight by rounds. Standing toe-to-toe would be a huge mistake for Floyd. Floyd and his trainers don't appreciate the way Manny's style comes across to the viewer and often make comment that he is an amateur. This is a Fallacy and will ultimately be Floyd's doom.

Some of you Pac fans are drinking too much of Freddy Roach's cool aid. Trying to pressure Floyd and overwhelm him has been proven to be ineffective. Again...Manny has not faced a great fighter on top of his game since Marquez. A lot of people are going to be scratching their heads if they think Manny's performances against Oscar, Hatton, and Cotto is any indicator of what will happen against Floyd. Those guys all had stamina issues...not to mention their skill set, speed, and smarts is no where near Floyd's. Please tell me...what will happen if Manny can't overwhelm Floyd with his workrate? I know it's hard for some of you Pac fans to imagine that. But lets just say it happens. Has he shown that he can box any other way? Is he a fighter that can adapt against a master technician who has tremendous stamina and speed? Floyd will get up for this fight. Once Manny realizes he cannot tire Floyd out or most likely even hurt him...game over. No over the hill, weight drained Oscar. No one dimensional brawler and weight yo yo er in Hatton. No mentally and physically weakened fighter in Cotto. He will be facing a guy who is just as fast as him. Just as good a stamina as him. But way more skill and smarts. Roach crapped in his pants when he saw Floyd take Shane's best punch and shake it off. Only person who might get KOed in this fight will be Manny. And I say all of that not being a big Floyd fan. I just know a better boxer when i see one.

I don't think we should go there with discrediting a guy's accomplishments and pick holes in his resume, because it could be done with any fighter ( I did it with Pac before but it was done as to rile up his fans and wasn't serious). I favor Floyd slightly in a upcoming match but no way is it that cut and dry.

Agreed.

Actually, I am more impressed with Pac's recent wins than Floyds though. Beating Hatton and then Cotto and as effortlessly as he did was stunning. His win over Clottey was a little less impressive, but still a thorough pounding to the distance. Whilst his face has been a little marked up, at no point could you say Pac has been wobbled in recent fights. Marquez was way too small for Mayweather and though Mosley was a better opponent, I do think he has declined significantly and Mayweather did go to the trenches in round two.

It's a pick 'em for me. I really can see it going either way, but Mayweather being hurt twice in a round like that makes me think that Pac will do it far more often and Mayweather won't have that much of a target to hold on to.

[mickel]

if pac hurts mayweather like that in the second round, it will be all over for floyd.

Who pac has fought in the past three years is far more impressive than who mayweather has fought. There's no comparison!

[El Kabong]

if pac hurts mayweather like that in the second round, it will be all over for floyd.

Who pac has fought in the past three years is far more impressive than who mayweather has fought. There's no comparison!

I totally agree, if Pac hurts Floyd he'll close it out....BUT those counter rights hurt Shane Mosley and if Floyd is able to hurt Shane then I think he's going to rock the hell out of Manny.

Either way I no longer see this fight going the distance

[JSwift]

I dont believe either of their resumes for the past few fights should be considered all star caliber. And while a lot of emphasis on this post seems to be focused on punching power. I think that Floyd's counter punching and more importantly, his 5-6 inch reach advantage will be a major factor. Of course this wont be the first time Pac has fought a man with longer arms, but fighting a guy with longer arms whose primary attacks are the left hand check hook and the straight right hand could spell problems. Maybe if Pac used more lateral movement I would feel better about his chances. Or the fact that Clottey could hit him when he decided during every lunar eclipse to throw a punch. There's no excuse for Manny's face to look like that after that fight.

[toe2toe]

I dont believe either of their resumes for the past few fights should be considered all star caliber. And while a lot of emphasis on this post seems to be focused on punching power. I think that Floyd's counter punching and more importantly, his 5-6 inch reach advantage will be a major factor. Of course this wont be the first time Pac has fought a man with longer arms, but fighting a guy with longer arms whose primary attacks are the left hand check hook and the straight right hand could spell problems. Maybe if Pac used more lateral movement I would feel better about his chances. Or the fact that Clottey could hit him when he decided during every lunar eclipse to throw a punch. There's no excuse for Manny's face to look like that after that fight.

clottey's offense was irrelevant. pacquiao won almost all the rounds. he dominated clottey and clottey didn't really hurt or wobbled pacquiao.

[Chino]

Mayweather likes to wait and Manny is quick enough and active enough to make Mayweather pay

Sure, can't really compare Hatton to Pac but he kept his pressure on Mayweather and looked busy only to have Mayweather countering him until a late stoppage. I thought pressure fighters who throw punches all night was just another style that favored Floyd.

Well for sure these will be the excuses when 1 of them loses.

For Manny's supporters: Too small and jumping up too much in weight
For Floyd's supporters: Too old and ring rust

I'm sure these will be the excuses

Just like the excuses given for Mayweather's victories. People where bashing him because he wouldn't face a real welter and even throwing Shane's name in there. Floyd beats him and excuses were still heard about how Shane was no good.

Floyd was stunned by Mosley , and Pac is a fast starter , so he can catch Floyd early and change the whole fight

Floyd has been sparked two or three times in his whole career (Corley, Judah, and Mosley) only to come back and dominate the fight and come out clean as if he didn't even get in the ring. Manny has been kocked out, sparked, hurt, wobbly legs, exhausted, cut, bruised, etc. I give Pac a puncher's chance and when it comes to punching fast and with power, Pac's the man so far. I give Floyd the boxers/defense/speed/smarts chance. I see Floyd with more tricks in his bag than Manny. Still, if someone can beat Floyd the only one that comes to mind is Manny.

That's the kind of fight I want to see Floyd lose - where he was pressed to fight his best - which will be dazzling - and still unable to produce a victory

Exactly. A fight where the loser showed he gave it his best. For example, I don't feel that bad for ODLH loss vs Hopkins. Oscar was throwing his fast piercing jab, left hook, speedy combinations, working the body, defense, etc. and lost the fight. He brought it all to the table and lost. That is why I don't give Pac so much credit for his win vs Oscar as Oscar didn't do ANYTHING really. Same thing with any other guy who has fought after his prime and just looked bad: Camacho vs Leonard, Ali vs Berbick, Tyson vs McBride, etc.

he dominated clottey and clottey didn't really hurt or wobbled pacquiao

It took just a few punches to bust Pac's face as it normally happens to him in every single fight.

[JSwift]

I dont believe either of their resumes for the past few fights should be considered all star caliber. And while a lot of emphasis on this post seems to be focused on punching power. I think that Floyd's counter punching and more importantly, his 5-6 inch reach advantage will be a major factor. Of course this wont be the first time Pac has fought a man with longer arms, but fighting a guy with longer arms whose primary attacks are the left hand check hook and the straight right hand could spell problems. Maybe if Pac used more lateral movement I would feel better about his chances. Or the fact that Clottey could hit him when he decided during every lunar eclipse to throw a punch. There's no excuse for Manny's face to look like that after that fight.

clottey's offense was irrelevant. pacquiao won almost all the rounds. he dominated clottey and clottey didn't really hurt or wobbled pacquiao.

im agreeing with you. thats why i couldnt understand why pac's face was so worn out. when clottey threw one of his four uppercuts the whole fight, it landed. he just didnt wanna throw it or anything else for that matter

[zhubin]

Some people just want to evade logic or the facts. Again...the best fighter Pac has faced is Marquez. Floyd does everything Marquez does X2...plus he has unequaled defense. This isn't about who's personality we like better. It's about who is the better boxer. I have no problem admitting that Pac's resume is better than Floyd's. But too many people are equating Pac's recent performances to what will happen against Mayweather. Pac...for all of his improvements and athleticism...still fights one way. He is still easy to hit. You can wear down lesser opponents with stamina issues. But against a master technician who is also a supreme athlete...you better have a lot more in your bag than "i am going to overwhelm him with my work rate." You cannot beat Floyd by simply pressuring him. Pac will bring out the best in Mayweather...and Floyd's best IMO, will bee too much for Manny.