US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts

[Gandalf]

I'm failing to see how anybody can't see that the kids in question were just being complete dicks. I mean Bilbo has explained it well, Jaz has, amat has, CFH has and i thought i had.

Being a dick is not illegal, nor is wearing a flag (i.e see the post where I did explain it more detailed). The point is not there, it was perhaps provocative but it was far from something totally disrespectful or offensive such as burning a mexican flag or stomping a Mexican icon. You cannot kick kids out of school for their opinion when these opinions are displayed peacefully.

Yes, there is nothing to suggest that the kids were being violent in expressing themselves. If they had been wearing the flag and walking about hitting the Mexicans then I would fully empathise with the Mexicans, but just based on wearing a few silly colours I struggle to see the big deal. I find it such a bizarre thing to get upset about. I couldn't imagine a situation from my school days where someone would get so worked up by a flag, but we did have to wear uniforms up until 6th form which is possibly the best option if this is how sensitive people are going to get. And they should all have the same haircuts too just like kids do here. If you are going to get so worked up by people expressing themselves (no matter how ignorantly) then how about going the other way and showing what its like for everyone to have no freedom. Uniform clothes and haircuts is the way to deal with this. Well done, KS on solving the issue for me! Hooray!

I don't think many are getting upset by it. Maybe in Mexican communities they are. But it seems to be the American public who are upset by the fact the kids we're asked to remove the clothing, and when they refused, they were asked to go home for the day.

Out of interest Miles, where do you draw the line? What item of clothing isn't accpetable?

I think the best solution in a situation like this in a school setting is a uniform like KS suggested. I really think that is the best alternative. As it stands I don't believe that wearing a flag shirt should really be considered offensive. If the shirt had another students name on it with something provocative on it like "Debbie takes it up the pooper" then I don't think that is acceptable because Debbie is a student in the class and that is bullying and in a direct and very demeaning way. But I'm the type of person that would see no issue with someone going to Buckingham palace wearing a t-shirt with a picture of the Queen getting her head cut off by a guillotine. That person would be an adult and I believe that they should be able to express themselves freely no matter how juvenile it is. Mind you, I really wouldn't go to the effort of doing that, but have no issues with anyone that did. I would probably draw the line at having naked people on a tshirt, that's probably not a healthy thing for young kids to see. And maybe a shirt emblazoned with foul language. But where do you draw the line? Maybe some kids are against modern capitalism and big business? Are we then going to ban all logos? Where do you draw the line. I find corporate branding far more offensive than a silly flag. Either let them wear what they want at all times and rise above any rivalry or else tie them down in uniforms. Now I'm thinking that for silly school kids the later option is probably preferable.

[Kev]

I'm failing to see how anybody can't see that the kids in question were just being complete dicks. I mean Bilbo has explained it well, Jaz has, amat has, CFH has and i thought i had.

Being a dick is not illegal, nor is wearing a flag (i.e see the post where I did explain it more detailed). The point is not there, it was perhaps provocative but it was far from something totally disrespectful or offensive such as burning a mexican flag or stomping a Mexican icon. You cannot kick kids out of school for their opinion when these opinions are displayed peacefully.

Yes, there is nothing to suggest that the kids were being violent in expressing themselves. If they had been wearing the flag and walking about hitting the Mexicans then I would fully empathise with the Mexicans, but just based on wearing a few silly colours I struggle to see the big deal. I find it such a bizarre thing to get upset about. I couldn't imagine a situation from my school days where someone would get so worked up by a flag, but we did have to wear uniforms up until 6th form which is possibly the best option if this is how sensitive people are going to get. And they should all have the same haircuts too just like kids do here. If you are going to get so worked up by people expressing themselves (no matter how ignorantly) then how about going the other way and showing what its like for everyone to have no freedom. Uniform clothes and haircuts is the way to deal with this. Well done, KS on solving the issue for me! Hooray!

I don't think many are getting upset by it. Maybe in Mexican communities they are. But it seems to be the American public who are upset by the fact the kids we're asked to remove the clothing, and when they refused, they were asked to go home for the day.

Out of interest Miles, where do you draw the line? What item of clothing isn't accpetable?

I think the best solution in a situation like this in a school setting is a uniform like KS suggested. I really think that is the best alternative. As it stands I don't believe that wearing a flag shirt should really be considered offensive. If the shirt had another students name on it with something provocative on it like "Debbie takes it up the pooper" then I don't think that is acceptable because Debbie is a student in the class and that is bullying and in a direct and very demeaning way. But I'm the type of person that would see no issue with someone going to Buckingham palace wearing a t-shirt with a picture of the Queen getting her head cut off by a guillotine. That person would be an adult and I believe that they should be able to express themselves freely no matter how juvenile it is. Mind you, I really wouldn't go to the effort of doing that, but have no issues with anyone that did. I would probably draw the line at having naked people on a tshirt, that's probably not a healthy thing for young kids to see. And maybe a shirt emblazoned with foul language. But where do you draw the line? Maybe some kids are against modern capitalism and big business? Are we then going to ban all logos? Where do you draw the line. I find corporate branding far more offensive than a silly flag. Either let them wear what they want at all times and rise above any rivalry or else tie them down in uniforms. Now I'm thinking that for silly school kids the later option is probably preferable.

So of course you would have no problem letting a bunch of Arabs through the Heathrow Terminals wearing tshirts that said 'Down with the UK!', or 'Death to the infidels!'?

I must say it's interesting the lengths to which you will go to preserve tshirt wearing rights, the fundamental right to offend through clothing is clearly very important to you, a basic human right almost :-)

[amat]

The highest court in the land says you can make political statements at school as long as it doesn't interfere with other students learning. If there were Mexican kids out there that felt targeted by these kid's shirts (because even those arguing against the principal admit that these douches were targeting kids) then the principal was well within his rights.

You guys take civil liberties and run with it, how the hell would you feel if your son went to this school and the principal was more worried about not stepping on a couple bigot's toes then he was making sure everyone is getting out of school what they actually went there for? Lyle I expected to have the type of reply he did but by typing Stinko De Mayo he pretty much made my point for me. If some Mexican called July 4th something like that he would be up in arms talking about how white people are modern day black slaves.

[Kev]

The highest court in the land says you can make political statements at school as long as it doesn't interfere with other students learning. If there were Mexican kids out there that felt targeted by these kid's shirts (because even those arguing against the principal admit that these douches were targeting kids) then the principal was well within his rights.

You guys take civil liberties and run with it, how the hell would you feel if your son went to this school and the principal was more worried about not stepping on a couple bigot's toes then he was making sure everyone is getting out of school what they actually went there for? Lyle I expected to have the type of reply he did but by typing Stinko De Mayo he pretty much made my point for me. If some Mexican called July 4th something like that he would be up in arms talking about how white people are modern day black slaves.

I never thought it would happen but Amat, Ono and Jazmerkin are those on this board whose opinions I respect the most these days.

[amat]

Lol Bilbo I think it's just because we are advocates of common sense. When the principal made his decision it was one of common sense, politics just weren't involved most likely.

Common sense always falls in the center and on this issue, you have people stuck on the right or left wings both arguing for the same point. The leftists would rather see the world crash and burn before they would stand to watch someone's perceived civil liberties violated in any shape or fashion. People own the right can't believe what the world is coming to when someone wears an American flag in America and has to take it off.

The more politics creep in, the more context is lost and the more common sense takes a backseat.

[Oggie]

It would have been interesting to have seen exactly what the situation was when the principal decided to take the measures he did.

Here is a thought that I'm a bit split on;
If the principal took the measures without a reason other than the fact that those kids were wearing the shirts, is he not encouraging the division between the two sets of pupils?
I'm just trying to imagine the scenario on the next school day as the kids arrive. If there was no trouble in sight, should he have just let it be instead of bringing it into the spotlight and almost providing a reason for increased animosity?
Would be interesting to hear thoughts on this...

Of course, just to be clear, if trouble was brewing and it was affecting the students, then (much like all protests) the principal was 100% right to take action in the interest of student/school safety in my opinion.

[Kev]

It would have been interesting to have seen exactly what the situation was when the principal decided to take the measures he did.

Here is a thought that I'm a bit split on;
If the principal took the measures without a reason other than the fact that those kids were wearing the shirts, is he not encouraging the division between the two sets of pupils?
I'm just trying to imagine the scenario on the next school day as the kids arrive. If there was no trouble in sight, should he have just let it be instead of bringing it into the spotlight and almost providing a reason for increased animosity?
Would be interesting to hear thoughts on this...

Of course, just to be clear, if trouble was brewing and it was affecting the students, then (much like all protests) the principal was 100% right to take action in the interest of student/school safety in my opinion.

Thing is I guess the principle knows his students. He probably knows that kids, knows they are a bit twatish and knew exactly what they were up to .

I watched their interviews after and they looked like dicks to me, one kid innocently saying 'he couldn't take his shirt off because it would disrespecting the American flag', they were obviously just trying to make some kind of political statement.

And their parents too, who are now sueing. They will no doubt try to rally support by reminding America of all the brave troops who have died defending the right of all Americans to proudly wear their flags.

[Nameless]

The highest court in the land says you can make political statements at school as long as it doesn't interfere with other students learning. If there were Mexican kids out there that felt targeted by these kid's shirts (because even those arguing against the principal admit that these douches were targeting kids) then the principal was well within his rights.

You guys take civil liberties and run with it, how the hell would you feel if your son went to this school and the principal was more worried about not stepping on a couple bigot's toes then he was making sure everyone is getting out of school what they actually went there for? Lyle I expected to have the type of reply he did but by typing Stinko De Mayo he pretty much made my point for me. If some Mexican called July 4th something like that he would be up in arms talking about how white people are modern day black slaves.

Did they make biggot remark? Nope. They just wear the national emblem. Morally an legally, this is not wrong. If somebody feels offense by that, they are friggin too sensitive. that reminds me how i got kicked out of class by my french teacher in secondary 4 because I was wearing a Fighting Irish T-Shirt and it did look violent to her. Should I stop wearing it because it does offense her and because it hurts her abilities to give a class? Nope. I went to the director, he wasn't sure what to do (what a tool) but did let me wear the shirt if I would promise to not wear it too often. No joke.
You cannot proceed with your argument because otherwise, most clothes would be forbidden. if you would have a rockabilly shirt with the number 666 on it, some christian nuts could complain that it goes against the religion and that it blocks them to work correctly etc. There would be no limits if you go that way. These mexicans kids who are living in the State must be aware that they are in the State and they do have a problem if they can't stand the view of the flag of the country they live in. Same things for the French Canadians who are angry when the english Canadians are trumpeting the streets of Montreal with their Canadian Flag on a 24 of july, I never made case of it, stupid provocation for sure but if I react for it I am even dumber, especially as they aren't mistreating any of our icons.

[Gandalf]

I'm failing to see how anybody can't see that the kids in question were just being complete dicks. I mean Bilbo has explained it well, Jaz has, amat has, CFH has and i thought i had.

Being a dick is not illegal, nor is wearing a flag (i.e see the post where I did explain it more detailed). The point is not there, it was perhaps provocative but it was far from something totally disrespectful or offensive such as burning a mexican flag or stomping a Mexican icon. You cannot kick kids out of school for their opinion when these opinions are displayed peacefully.

Yes, there is nothing to suggest that the kids were being violent in expressing themselves. If they had been wearing the flag and walking about hitting the Mexicans then I would fully empathise with the Mexicans, but just based on wearing a few silly colours I struggle to see the big deal. I find it such a bizarre thing to get upset about. I couldn't imagine a situation from my school days where someone would get so worked up by a flag, but we did have to wear uniforms up until 6th form which is possibly the best option if this is how sensitive people are going to get. And they should all have the same haircuts too just like kids do here. If you are going to get so worked up by people expressing themselves (no matter how ignorantly) then how about going the other way and showing what its like for everyone to have no freedom. Uniform clothes and haircuts is the way to deal with this. Well done, KS on solving the issue for me! Hooray!

I don't think many are getting upset by it. Maybe in Mexican communities they are. But it seems to be the American public who are upset by the fact the kids we're asked to remove the clothing, and when they refused, they were asked to go home for the day.

Out of interest Miles, where do you draw the line? What item of clothing isn't accpetable?

I think the best solution in a situation like this in a school setting is a uniform like KS suggested. I really think that is the best alternative. As it stands I don't believe that wearing a flag shirt should really be considered offensive. If the shirt had another students name on it with something provocative on it like "Debbie takes it up the pooper" then I don't think that is acceptable because Debbie is a student in the class and that is bullying and in a direct and very demeaning way. But I'm the type of person that would see no issue with someone going to Buckingham palace wearing a t-shirt with a picture of the Queen getting her head cut off by a guillotine. That person would be an adult and I believe that they should be able to express themselves freely no matter how juvenile it is. Mind you, I really wouldn't go to the effort of doing that, but have no issues with anyone that did. I would probably draw the line at having naked people on a tshirt, that's probably not a healthy thing for young kids to see. And maybe a shirt emblazoned with foul language. But where do you draw the line? Maybe some kids are against modern capitalism and big business? Are we then going to ban all logos? Where do you draw the line. I find corporate branding far more offensive than a silly flag. Either let them wear what they want at all times and rise above any rivalry or else tie them down in uniforms. Now I'm thinking that for silly school kids the later option is probably preferable.

So of course you would have no problem letting a bunch of Arabs through the Heathrow Terminals wearing tshirts that said 'Down with the UK!', or 'Death to the infidels!'?

I must say it's interesting the lengths to which you will go to preserve tshirt wearing rights, the fundamental right to offend through clothing is clearly very important to you, a basic human right almost :-)

Haha

I must start off by saying that I seldom ever wear any clothing that is in any way provocative, political nor antagonistic. I like wearing jeans and I would feel ridiculous wearing a union jack flag tshirt. I mean, how silly would that look on me? I just wouldn't go there. But in theory and if other people want to wear more provocative clothing then it shouldn't be a concern for me. I think to wear a shirt saying "Down with the UK" is a bit strong, but that's the persons choice. They shouldn't wear it in the UK though as they would probably get a kicking. Maybe something more specific like "Down with the Lib-Tory alliance" would be more palatable. But as an English man in a non uniformed public school then it shouldn't be an issue to go to school looking a bit of a sadcase in his union jack colours. People would probably laugh at him rather than get mortally offended. It's pointless to send the kid home though and any kid that wants to beat him up for it has issues themselves. There is a difference between being a provocative person with no fashion sense and being a violent thug. Not that you can't be both mind, but its the violent part that is really never cool.

[Kev]

I'm failing to see how anybody can't see that the kids in question were just being complete dicks. I mean Bilbo has explained it well, Jaz has, amat has, CFH has and i thought i had.

Being a dick is not illegal, nor is wearing a flag (i.e see the post where I did explain it more detailed). The point is not there, it was perhaps provocative but it was far from something totally disrespectful or offensive such as burning a mexican flag or stomping a Mexican icon. You cannot kick kids out of school for their opinion when these opinions are displayed peacefully.

Yes, there is nothing to suggest that the kids were being violent in expressing themselves. If they had been wearing the flag and walking about hitting the Mexicans then I would fully empathise with the Mexicans, but just based on wearing a few silly colours I struggle to see the big deal. I find it such a bizarre thing to get upset about. I couldn't imagine a situation from my school days where someone would get so worked up by a flag, but we did have to wear uniforms up until 6th form which is possibly the best option if this is how sensitive people are going to get. And they should all have the same haircuts too just like kids do here. If you are going to get so worked up by people expressing themselves (no matter how ignorantly) then how about going the other way and showing what its like for everyone to have no freedom. Uniform clothes and haircuts is the way to deal with this. Well done, KS on solving the issue for me! Hooray!

I don't think many are getting upset by it. Maybe in Mexican communities they are. But it seems to be the American public who are upset by the fact the kids we're asked to remove the clothing, and when they refused, they were asked to go home for the day.

Out of interest Miles, where do you draw the line? What item of clothing isn't accpetable?

I think the best solution in a situation like this in a school setting is a uniform like KS suggested. I really think that is the best alternative. As it stands I don't believe that wearing a flag shirt should really be considered offensive. If the shirt had another students name on it with something provocative on it like "Debbie takes it up the pooper" then I don't think that is acceptable because Debbie is a student in the class and that is bullying and in a direct and very demeaning way. But I'm the type of person that would see no issue with someone going to Buckingham palace wearing a t-shirt with a picture of the Queen getting her head cut off by a guillotine. That person would be an adult and I believe that they should be able to express themselves freely no matter how juvenile it is. Mind you, I really wouldn't go to the effort of doing that, but have no issues with anyone that did. I would probably draw the line at having naked people on a tshirt, that's probably not a healthy thing for young kids to see. And maybe a shirt emblazoned with foul language. But where do you draw the line? Maybe some kids are against modern capitalism and big business? Are we then going to ban all logos? Where do you draw the line. I find corporate branding far more offensive than a silly flag. Either let them wear what they want at all times and rise above any rivalry or else tie them down in uniforms. Now I'm thinking that for silly school kids the later option is probably preferable.

So of course you would have no problem letting a bunch of Arabs through the Heathrow Terminals wearing tshirts that said 'Down with the UK!', or 'Death to the infidels!'?

I must say it's interesting the lengths to which you will go to preserve tshirt wearing rights, the fundamental right to offend through clothing is clearly very important to you, a basic human right almost :-)

Haha

I must start off by saying that I seldom ever wear any clothing that is in any way provocative, political nor antagonistic. I like wearing jeans and I would feel ridiculous wearing a union jack flag tshirt. I mean, how silly would that look on me? I just wouldn't go there. But in theory and if other people want to wear more provocative clothing then it shouldn't be a concern for me. I think to wear a shirt saying "Down with the UK" is a bit strong, but that's the persons choice. They shouldn't wear it in the UK though as they would probably get a kicking. Maybe something more specific like "Down with the Lib-Tory alliance" would be more palatable. But as an English man in a non uniformed public school then it shouldn't be an issue to go to school looking a bit of a sadcase in his union jack colours. People would probably laugh at him rather than get mortally offended. It's pointless to send the kid home though and any kid that wants to beat him up for it has issues themselves. There is a difference between being a provocative person with no fashion sense and being a violent thug. Not that you can't be both mind, but its the violent part that is really never cool.

Miles I just looked at the related posts below and saw that you created another thread arguing that teachers should have more power to control unruly students.

I'm still laughing now!

[JazMerkin]

Are you trying to prove otherwise?

(Booze, am I fuck against the ropes?)

It's like when a fighter protests an obvious stoppage

The highest court in the land says you can make political statements at school as long as it doesn't interfere with other students learning. If there were Mexican kids out there that felt targeted by these kid's shirts (because even those arguing against the principal admit that these douches were targeting kids) then the principal was well within his rights.

You guys take civil liberties and run with it, how the hell would you feel if your son went to this school and the principal was more worried about not stepping on a couple bigot's toes then he was making sure everyone is getting out of school what they actually went there for? Lyle I expected to have the type of reply he did but by typing Stinko De Mayo he pretty much made my point for me. If some Mexican called July 4th something like that he would be up in arms talking about how white people are modern day black slaves.

Great post, particularly the second part. I can see Lyle all worked up over it, with General Bulldog stopping by to accuse people of playing the race card.

I never thought it would happen but Amat, Ono and Jazmerkin are those on this board whose opinions I respect the most these days.

I've been worrying just how much I've been agreeing with you & Hammer. At this rate it's only a matter of time before I'm drawn towards some BNP/Nambla coalition.

Miles I just looked at the related posts below and saw that you created another thread arguing that teachers should have more power to control unruly students.

I'm still laughing now!

If Miles wasn't on the ropes before, his argument is out for the count now


* Since when are newbies allowed in here?? This Gray Lion's posts are a perfect illustration of why you should have to earn the right to post here.

[Gandalf]

I'm failing to see how anybody can't see that the kids in question were just being complete dicks. I mean Bilbo has explained it well, Jaz has, amat has, CFH has and i thought i had.

Being a dick is not illegal, nor is wearing a flag (i.e see the post where I did explain it more detailed). The point is not there, it was perhaps provocative but it was far from something totally disrespectful or offensive such as burning a mexican flag or stomping a Mexican icon. You cannot kick kids out of school for their opinion when these opinions are displayed peacefully.

Yes, there is nothing to suggest that the kids were being violent in expressing themselves. If they had been wearing the flag and walking about hitting the Mexicans then I would fully empathise with the Mexicans, but just based on wearing a few silly colours I struggle to see the big deal. I find it such a bizarre thing to get upset about. I couldn't imagine a situation from my school days where someone would get so worked up by a flag, but we did have to wear uniforms up until 6th form which is possibly the best option if this is how sensitive people are going to get. And they should all have the same haircuts too just like kids do here. If you are going to get so worked up by people expressing themselves (no matter how ignorantly) then how about going the other way and showing what its like for everyone to have no freedom. Uniform clothes and haircuts is the way to deal with this. Well done, KS on solving the issue for me! Hooray!

I don't think many are getting upset by it. Maybe in Mexican communities they are. But it seems to be the American public who are upset by the fact the kids we're asked to remove the clothing, and when they refused, they were asked to go home for the day.

Out of interest Miles, where do you draw the line? What item of clothing isn't accpetable?

I think the best solution in a situation like this in a school setting is a uniform like KS suggested. I really think that is the best alternative. As it stands I don't believe that wearing a flag shirt should really be considered offensive. If the shirt had another students name on it with something provocative on it like "Debbie takes it up the pooper" then I don't think that is acceptable because Debbie is a student in the class and that is bullying and in a direct and very demeaning way. But I'm the type of person that would see no issue with someone going to Buckingham palace wearing a t-shirt with a picture of the Queen getting her head cut off by a guillotine. That person would be an adult and I believe that they should be able to express themselves freely no matter how juvenile it is. Mind you, I really wouldn't go to the effort of doing that, but have no issues with anyone that did. I would probably draw the line at having naked people on a tshirt, that's probably not a healthy thing for young kids to see. And maybe a shirt emblazoned with foul language. But where do you draw the line? Maybe some kids are against modern capitalism and big business? Are we then going to ban all logos? Where do you draw the line. I find corporate branding far more offensive than a silly flag. Either let them wear what they want at all times and rise above any rivalry or else tie them down in uniforms. Now I'm thinking that for silly school kids the later option is probably preferable.

So of course you would have no problem letting a bunch of Arabs through the Heathrow Terminals wearing tshirts that said 'Down with the UK!', or 'Death to the infidels!'?

I must say it's interesting the lengths to which you will go to preserve tshirt wearing rights, the fundamental right to offend through clothing is clearly very important to you, a basic human right almost :-)

Haha

I must start off by saying that I seldom ever wear any clothing that is in any way provocative, political nor antagonistic. I like wearing jeans and I would feel ridiculous wearing a union jack flag tshirt. I mean, how silly would that look on me? I just wouldn't go there. But in theory and if other people want to wear more provocative clothing then it shouldn't be a concern for me. I think to wear a shirt saying "Down with the UK" is a bit strong, but that's the persons choice. They shouldn't wear it in the UK though as they would probably get a kicking. Maybe something more specific like "Down with the Lib-Tory alliance" would be more palatable. But as an English man in a non uniformed public school then it shouldn't be an issue to go to school looking a bit of a sadcase in his union jack colours. People would probably laugh at him rather than get mortally offended. It's pointless to send the kid home though and any kid that wants to beat him up for it has issues themselves. There is a difference between being a provocative person with no fashion sense and being a violent thug. Not that you can't be both mind, but its the violent part that is really never cool.

Miles I just looked at the related posts below and saw that you created another thread arguing that teachers should have more power to control unruly students.

I'm still laughing now!

I don't think it's that funny!

As a teacher I like kids who pay attention and are studious. They can have a laugh every now and then too as that's what kids do. But if the kid is starting to disrupt the class with rude behaviour and wanting to get phyical with others then I think the teacher should be able to discipline kids. I teach in an environment where corporal punishment is still the norm and it works. I don't use it myself as I have the luxury of smaller class sizes and the kids are fine. You compare that with the UK which is where kids rule the roost and there are far more problems. In that sense I believe a stronger teacher is more advantageous. I see no conflict in my position though. A Korean student should be free to wear the Korean flag in his classroom. After all, every Korean classroom has a Korean flag at the front of each classroom. Why would that bother me? I don't really see the point in it, but at the same time could not consider it offensive. But having said that, all schools have a uniform policy out here and like I've said earlier, that is probably the best thing for kids. I genuinely prefer that, America should follow suit.

[Gandalf]

In reply to Jaz, I don't really see the contradiction in my position. They are two different situations. I believe that out of control kids need to be stopped in their tracks, but I see nothing particularly problematic with a kid wearing a daft flag t shirt. Its a Mexican holiday on a day involving the French, it has nothing to do with America so I have no idea why the Mexicans would be getting so worked up about it. My main issue is with kids making actual threats of violence and trying to harm others, I struggle to see that in the wearing of an item of clothing.