US students kicked of school campus for wearing US flag t-shirts

[Nameless]

How does someone with 7 posts, who appears to be an alt, have access to this forum?

You're the mod, sort this.

I have no control over who can access what. I will pose the question to the powers that be.

He definitely sounds familiar.

The way he rants about something totally unrelated to the discussion in hand is similar to Trainer Monkey, but TM certainly was no pro war purple heart vietnam vet so it's not him. He quotes a lot of history with authority like Kirkland Laing might do, but Laing has never struck me as the type to have an alt so I'm not sure, but he is somebody I'm certain of that.

But admit.. you wouldn't be surprise if he would do so eh? He rant about so many different things on punkmusic forum, even stating once that he musically have had more influence than Pink Floyd somehow... I wouldn't be surprise by him receiving some kind of important medals for an uneventful action but super important in his own world.

[amat]

Lol Nameless how can you say my argument can't proceed when the principal already sided with me? Everything I said in that post is true, if I wore a shirt with the numbers 666 on it to my high school, I would have been asked to change it. Tinker Vs Des Moines, you made me look the fucken case up, that's the case that gives teachers and principals the right to make sure political statements don't interfere with the school's educational mission. That means it is the principal's JUDGEMENT. Don't tell me my argument can't proceed when you just keep regurgitating the same thing over and over.

[Nameless]

Lol Nameless how can you say my argument can't proceed when the principal already sided with me? Everything I said in that post is true, if I wore a shirt with the numbers 666 on it to my high school, I would have been asked to change it. Tinker Vs Des Moines, you made me look the fucken case up, that's the case that gives teachers and principals the right to make sure political statements don't interfere with the school's educational mission. That means it is the principal's JUDGEMENT. Don't tell me my argument can't proceed when you just keep regurgitating the same thing over and over.

à

Lol Amat (back), did you read the human right charts and the Us amendment chart? Because you never answered my arguments? Because it's not because the principal enforces it that it is correct to do so? (you know the difference between enforcing something and being legal and moral doing so, right?) I did ask my friend Clayton who's an american lawyer (living in the UK now) what he did think about it and he said that if the parents sue the school, they are almost certain to win because ( in his words) it is not a private school with uniforms and because wearing the flag wasn't proscribed by any law and didn't constitute an offense. The guy did so but he had no good reasons at all (same argument that it hasn't been disrespectful neither did it represent an offense to the mexican culture). Missy did sums it pretty well: they should have the right to wear it all the time or never period. As it was not a school law that does forbid flag, the dude was plain wrong.

[amat]

Your friend Clayton is wrong. This isn't a human rights issue either, if kids felt threatened or singled out, JUST ONE KID, that's all the ammunition the principal needed. Unless this goes all the way to the supreme court and the law is interpreted differently then I am right. Seriously just stop, I'm just going to thank God you don't run any schools. Ask Clayton what precedent is, then tell him to look it up in this case. That is all. Seriously that is all. ONE KID, and you dont know what these kids were saying or doing, you just know the shirts they were wearing. It's obvious the statement they were trying to make, the dude was just trying to protect his students that's all. Can a mod ban me from this thread please? Seriously.


It's been established multiple times in court that students in school DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT, always have the same first amendment rights as others outside of school. This is FACT. I'm capitalizing because you seem to be ignoring this point. I know the amendments and I know a lot of my freedoms, I knew in high school I did NOT retain ALL of my freedoms. THIS IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED, your friend Clayton certainly should have picked this up at some point if I have right? If he didn't know this then he's for sure not the sharpest lawyer. Either way, I'm not going to go and do any reading you told me to do, it's ridiculous. I'm not going to sit here and do what you do and say "go read this before talking to me", I'm (foolishly) assuming you are caught up on this and I don't need to direct you to any reading. BUT IF YOU WISH, I can very easily look up the supreme court cases that prove my points to be right. You're a very bizarre man, I knew that, now I know you're stubborn even if you aren't necessarily educated on whatever it is you're taking about. This stuff gets my blood pressure boiling, don't be such a dick.

[Nameless]

Your friend Clayton is wrong. This isn't a human rights issue either, if kids felt threatened or singled out, JUST ONE KID, that's all the ammunition the principal needed. Unless this goes all the way to the supreme court and the law is interpreted differently then I am right. Seriously just stop, I'm just going to thank God you don't run any schools. Ask Clayton what precedent is, then tell him to look it up in this case. That is all. Seriously that is all. ONE KID, and you dont know what these kids were saying or doing, you just know the shirts they were wearing. It's obvious the statement they were trying to make, the dude was just trying to protect his students that's all. Can a mod ban me from this thread please? Seriously.


It's been established multiple times in court that students in school DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT, always have the same first amendment rights as others outside of school. This is FACT. I'm capitalizing because you seem to be ignoring this point (1). I know the amendments and I know a lot of my freedoms, I knew in high school I did NOT retain ALL of my freedoms. THIS IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED, your friend Clayton certainly should have picked this up at some point if I have right? If he didn't know this then he's for sure not the sharpest lawyer. Either way, I'm not going to go and do any reading you told me to do, it's ridiculous (2). I'm not going to sit here and do what you do and say "go read this before talking to me", I'm (foolishly) assuming you are caught up on this and I don't need to direct you to any reading. BUT IF YOU WISH, I can very easily look up the supreme court cases that prove my points to be right. You're a very bizarre man, I knew that, now I know you're stubborn even if you aren't necessarily educated on whatever it is you're taking about. This stuff gets my blood pressure boiling, don't be such a dick.(3)

1) The freedom of speech, normally have an end when it is to spread hate (i.e nazism and such stuff). The kids there never sprouted any kind neither any form of racism in any way. I am quite versed into ethics/international ethics as I am more or less making my PHD on that issue, I am not just an ass who doesn't know what he's talking about, Amat. The only way the principal might have the right to put them out of school would have been if there was a strict law forbidding to wear any kind of Flags at all, otherwise, as it is far from a hate/racism gesture(and not a private school with uniforms), there is no way on earth they can prevent them from wearing their country flag in their own country. In such case, you cannot censor anything. Thus said, on a legal matter, I trust my friend a bit more than you, especially because your main argument seems to turn around the "stop being a dick" and "you're wrong" thing.


2) Refusing to read what I did point out (especially as it's not very long) is a clear sign of "wrong faith" showing you're more interested by being right to be right rather than exchange information and compare arguments.

3) I am not a Dick, you just dodged my points and your only argument, once again, is that I am angering you and that I am wrong and you right. You never answered the arguments I gave, you used the old sophist trick of the authoritarian position and the straw man sophism (consisting of trying to make your interlocutor look bad). I've been polite where you're insulting me and even saying that I am perhaps un-educated. Well, for a Canadian, I think it's quite good to know so much about your amendments in the US and how your constitution work when I am certain you don't know as much about the Canadian system, I think that speaking 4 languages, having 2 master degrees and perhaps a PHD (assuming I finish it and pass it) is quite a good proof that I can do something and that my acadamic baggage is decent, especially because, as MIles said, I made some valid points which you simply refuse to discuss or to look, I gave you examples with some celebrations here and up to where can go the notion of "disturbing for everyone" (i.e with the canadian flag example during a parade or the fighting irish shirt example).
Now, seeing how you react, I propose 2 things: 1) either we stop to talk about it because it angers you and because you do not seem willing to examine my arguments and starting to be a bit insulting where I do not want to start a stupid war with you because you seem to be a cool guy or 2) examine my arguments, what I did refer, give counter-arguments and we explore the thing together till we find a compromise or will agree to disagree.

I have no problems with both seriously, it,s all about the approach.

By the way, on the Yahoo forums (where peoples who do answer are normally very knowledgeable about the concerned facts) on that matter, consider that it was effectively legal, just so you know that some other knowledgeable peoples on that matter seem to say that I am not exactly wrong... not to say that I did hit the bulls eye: Is it illegal to wear an America flag on cinco de Mayo day? - Yahoo! Answers

Ps: IF I am strange for defending my opinions when they are backed by some facts, by an articulated answer when I had no valid counter argument thrown at me but a lot of insults and "I am right shut up" type of arguments, yeah, I guess that they do teach strange things in our language philosophy classes

[ono]

Lol Nameless how can you say my argument can't proceed when the principal already sided with me? Everything I said in that post is true, if I wore a shirt with the numbers 666 on it to my high school, I would have been asked to change it. Tinker Vs Des Moines, you made me look the fucken case up, that's the case that gives teachers and principals the right to make sure political statements don't interfere with the school's educational mission. That means it is the principal's JUDGEMENT. Don't tell me my argument can't proceed when you just keep regurgitating the same thing over and over.

à

Lol Amat (back), did you read the human right charts and the Us amendment chart? Because you never answered my arguments? Because it's not because the principal enforces it that it is correct to do so? (you know the difference between enforcing something and being legal and moral doing so, right?) I did ask my friend Clayton who's an american lawyer (living in the UK now) what he did think about it and he said that if the parents sue the school, they are almost certain to win because ( in his words) it is not a private school with uniforms and because wearing the flag wasn't proscribed by any law and didn't constitute an offense. The guy did so but he had no good reasons at all (same argument that it hasn't been disrespectful neither did it represent an offense to the mexican culture). Missy did sums it pretty well: they should have the right to wear it all the time or never period. As it was not a school law that does forbid flag, the dude was plain wrong.

Ahh but the kids were breaking the US Flag Code by wearing the t-shirts anyway. So there.

[Gandalf]

Bit harsh, Amat. Nameless has been making some very good points in this thread. I find an argument always goes out the window when you call people names and start telling them that they are being 'a dick'.

As for Gray Lion, yes, let him stay. He might turn out to be very interesting.

[Kev]

Bit harsh, Amat. Nameless has been making some very good points in this thread. I find an argument always goes out the window when you call people names and start telling them that they are being 'a dick'.

As for Gray Lion, yes, let him stay. He might turn out to be very interesting.

Sadly I doubt he will have much time to post on here, being busy with saving the earth from evil threats so the rest of us can continue to post.

He's probably gearing up for another mission as we speak.

[ono]

Bit harsh, Amat. Nameless has been making some very good points in this thread. I find an argument always goes out the window when you call people names and start telling them that they are being 'a dick'.

As for Gray Lion, yes, let him stay. He might turn out to be very interesting.

Sadly I doubt he will have much time to post on here, being busy with saving the earth from evil threats so the rest of us can continue to post.

He's probably gearing up for another mission as we speak.

He's rebuilding Chernobyl. With his bare hands.

[Nameless]

Lol Nameless how can you say my argument can't proceed when the principal already sided with me? Everything I said in that post is true, if I wore a shirt with the numbers 666 on it to my high school, I would have been asked to change it. Tinker Vs Des Moines, you made me look the fucken case up, that's the case that gives teachers and principals the right to make sure political statements don't interfere with the school's educational mission. That means it is the principal's JUDGEMENT. Don't tell me my argument can't proceed when you just keep regurgitating the same thing over and over.

à

Lol Amat (back), did you read the human right charts and the Us amendment chart? Because you never answered my arguments? Because it's not because the principal enforces it that it is correct to do so? (you know the difference between enforcing something and being legal and moral doing so, right?) I did ask my friend Clayton who's an american lawyer (living in the UK now) what he did think about it and he said that if the parents sue the school, they are almost certain to win because ( in his words) it is not a private school with uniforms and because wearing the flag wasn't proscribed by any law and didn't constitute an offense. The guy did so but he had no good reasons at all (same argument that it hasn't been disrespectful neither did it represent an offense to the mexican culture). Missy did sums it pretty well: they should have the right to wear it all the time or never period. As it was not a school law that does forbid flag, the dude was plain wrong.

Ahh but the kids were breaking the US Flag Code by wearing the t-shirts anyway. So there.

Actually, the only illegal thing is to wear an American Flag on a pole, any iconery of the Flag is ok by the law so it's all good

[ono]

Lol Nameless how can you say my argument can't proceed when the principal already sided with me? Everything I said in that post is true, if I wore a shirt with the numbers 666 on it to my high school, I would have been asked to change it. Tinker Vs Des Moines, you made me look the fucken case up, that's the case that gives teachers and principals the right to make sure political statements don't interfere with the school's educational mission. That means it is the principal's JUDGEMENT. Don't tell me my argument can't proceed when you just keep regurgitating the same thing over and over.

à

Lol Amat (back), did you read the human right charts and the Us amendment chart? Because you never answered my arguments? Because it's not because the principal enforces it that it is correct to do so? (you know the difference between enforcing something and being legal and moral doing so, right?) I did ask my friend Clayton who's an american lawyer (living in the UK now) what he did think about it and he said that if the parents sue the school, they are almost certain to win because ( in his words) it is not a private school with uniforms and because wearing the flag wasn't proscribed by any law and didn't constitute an offense. The guy did so but he had no good reasons at all (same argument that it hasn't been disrespectful neither did it represent an offense to the mexican culture). Missy did sums it pretty well: they should have the right to wear it all the time or never period. As it was not a school law that does forbid flag, the dude was plain wrong.

Ahh but the kids were breaking the US Flag Code by wearing the t-shirts anyway. So there.

Actually, the only illegal thing is to wear an American Flag on a pole, any iconery of the Flag is ok by the law so it's all good

How the hell are you going to wear an American flag on a pole? Anybody who manages that should be knighted, not punished.

[El Kabong]

How the hell are you going to wear an American flag on a pole? Anybody who manages that should be knighted, not punished.

I believe Nameless was correcting you and trying to explain that it's ....well it's not "illegal" it's just uncouth/disrespectful to use the actual flag as anything other than a flag.

ono, I don't really think you understand the kind of resentment shit like this can build up in people. Right now this isn't a racist/ethnocentrist issue it's just a couple kids that got sent home from school for wearing something some moron at a school thought was inappropriate. In the future this could get the ball rolling on any number of bad ideas/acts. I don't think that the people in charge of sending the kids home thought very much about the repercussions of their actions.

[Nameless]

Lol Nameless how can you say my argument can't proceed when the principal already sided with me? Everything I said in that post is true, if I wore a shirt with the numbers 666 on it to my high school, I would have been asked to change it. Tinker Vs Des Moines, you made me look the fucken case up, that's the case that gives teachers and principals the right to make sure political statements don't interfere with the school's educational mission. That means it is the principal's JUDGEMENT. Don't tell me my argument can't proceed when you just keep regurgitating the same thing over and over.

à

Lol Amat (back), did you read the human right charts and the Us amendment chart? Because you never answered my arguments? Because it's not because the principal enforces it that it is correct to do so? (you know the difference between enforcing something and being legal and moral doing so, right?) I did ask my friend Clayton who's an american lawyer (living in the UK now) what he did think about it and he said that if the parents sue the school, they are almost certain to win because ( in his words) it is not a private school with uniforms and because wearing the flag wasn't proscribed by any law and didn't constitute an offense. The guy did so but he had no good reasons at all (same argument that it hasn't been disrespectful neither did it represent an offense to the mexican culture). Missy did sums it pretty well: they should have the right to wear it all the time or never period. As it was not a school law that does forbid flag, the dude was plain wrong.

Ahh but the kids were breaking the US Flag Code by wearing the t-shirts anyway. So there.

Actually, the only illegal thing is to wear an American Flag on a pole, any iconery of the Flag is ok by the law so it's all good

How the hell are you going to wear an American flag on a pole? Anybody who manages that should be knighted, not punished.

I did mean to bear and not to wear. Other that if you do bring a flag on a pole, no icon of a flag on a shirt or other are forbidden in school.