Reality Hit Home Regarding the GREAT MIKE TYSON Story

[Master]

I think the heavyweight Spinks could probably beat Haye. Spinks beat an old Holmes twice on disputed decisions and stopped Cooney in 5.

[ross]

I found this yesterday on youtube, someone has put up a whole series of programmes surrounding the lead up to, the fight and after fight interviews about Tyson V Spinks.

Its very good, Larry Merchant presents it and keeps refering to Mikes "brute skill" He interviews among others, Kevin Rooney, Bill Cayton and Mike Katz. This gives younger boxing fans an idea of how massive Mike was and how highly regarded he was.

One thing that bugged me was when asked by Merchant who could have beaten Mike and how good he is, Mike Katz said, "id have to see him in a fight first".

This piisses me off because if he was being realistic and was asked, how well could Tony Tucker or Tony Tubbs done against Ali, or any heavy from history, they would have to reply with at least "they could have held there own and given a good acount of themselves". The thing is Mike beat them easily, so Mike would have to be given the same grace, that he would have at least given them problems but people dont like stepping on the toes of their heros. Mike Katz seems to have an axe to grind with Tyson even back then, before Mike was seen as trouble.

Mikes placings among the greats always comes down to the fact that people have rose tinted glasses on the past. Marciano for instance wouldnt have survived the first round against Mike and Marciano rates highly on everyones list.

Heres the link to the youtube users account, I have no idea how to find which order the videos go in?

YouTube - bigwills9thchnl's Channel

[El Kabong]

ross, it's easy for people to look at Rocky Marciano and see the flaws it's easy for them to take a step back and see his defense wasn't great, he wasn't a big guy, and all that stuff but the thing they fail to see are the intagibles. Rocky had a big heart, he had a solid chin, he had big time power, and he NEVER gave up. Mike Tyson had no heart how many fights where Tyson got dropped did he get back up to win? 0! How many times when Mike was in trouble did he dig deep and win? VERY FEW, against Bruno and Smith are the only ones I can think of and in the Smith fight he was only in trouble when Bonecrusher FINALLY threw and landed a punch.

Mike Tyson was a great fighter I believe that, but he's not in my top 10 because his being effective vs top teir opponents was 100% dependent on Tyson's ability to intimidate them. Marciano gutted out wins, Foreman was intimidating but he wasn't dependent on it especially when he was older.

I try to be realistic with my views on 'Iron' Mike, but it's hard because he had a very easy early road to the titles and only after the loss to Douglas did he eventually have the chance or take the chance to fight guys like Holyfield, Lewis, and to a far lesser extent Ruddock. Why no Riddick Bowe? Why no Ray Mercer? Why no George Foreman? Hell he could have at least fought Moorer, Morrison, and Briggs.

[Scrap]

I think what Beat Tyson, was the Goodhiding He took from Givens.

[ross]

ross, it's easy for people to look at Rocky Marciano and see the flaws it's easy for them to take a step back and see his defense wasn't great, he wasn't a big guy, and all that stuff but the thing they fail to see are the intagibles. Rocky had a big heart, he had a solid chin, he had big time power, and he NEVER gave up. Mike Tyson had no heart how many fights where Tyson got dropped did he get back up to win? 0! How many times when Mike was in trouble did he dig deep and win? VERY FEW, against Bruno and Smith are the only ones I can think of and in the Smith fight he was only in trouble when Bonecrusher FINALLY threw and landed a punch.

Mike Tyson was a great fighter I believe that, but he's not in my top 10 because his being effective vs top teir opponents was 100% dependent on Tyson's ability to intimidate them. Marciano gutted out wins, Foreman was intimidating but he wasn't dependent on it especially when he was older.

I try to be realistic with my views on 'Iron' Mike, but it's hard because he had a very easy early road to the titles and only after the loss to Douglas did he eventually have the chance or take the chance to fight guys like Holyfield, Lewis, and to a far lesser extent Ruddock. Why no Riddick Bowe? Why no Ray Mercer? Why no George Foreman? Hell he could have at least fought Moorer, Morrison, and Briggs.

Tell me how many fighters Marciano defended his title against, 5 I think? and Foreman, 3 I think?

Marciano is big time over rated. As for him having a solid chin, an old light heavyweight put him on his ass Mike would slaughter him!!

Tyson was going to fight Ray Mercer as a warm up before he fought Lewis but Lewis went to court and stopped it from happening, he didnt want Mike sharpening up!!

This is what gets me (as well as all the other kids that post on forums who dont know much about boxing), you didnt obviously know that Mike had a signed match with Mercer in 02, so you either havent been following boxing very long, or havent been paying attention, either way youv proved your opinion should be taken with a pinch of salt

[El Kabong]

Tell me how many fighters Marciano defended his title against, 5 I think? and Foreman, 3 I think?

Marciano is big time over rated. As for him having a solid chin, an old light heavyweight put him on his ass Mike would slaughter him!!

Tyson was going to fight Ray Mercer as a warm up before he fought Lewis but Lewis went to court and stopped it from happening, he didnt want Mike sharpening up!!

This is what gets me (as well as all the other kids that post on forums who dont know much about boxing), you didnt obviously know that Mike had a signed match with Mercer in 02, so you either havent been following boxing very long, or havent been paying attention, either way youv proved your opinion should be taken with a pinch of salt

Allow me to explain this to you.....

#1 If title defenses mean anything (and obviously they do) then JOE LOUIS is KING! And because of that I have Joe Louis as my #1 All-Time Greatest Heavyweight with Marciano and Ali following respectively.

#2 Marciano = UNDEFEATED.....FACT

#3 Marciano wasn't far from being a light heavyweight himself, the most he ever weighed for a fight was 192 vs Keene Simmons in 1951 but he mainly stayed at or around 186-188....FACT

#4 It wouldn't matter if Tyson had a fucking time machine he would NEVER have beaten Lennox Lewis ditto re: Evander Holyfield

#5 So Mike Tyson wanted to fight Ray Mercer in 2002....Wlad fought Ray in 2002, demolished him and he gets no credit for it so why would Tyson have gotten credit for it? I'm talking Mercer in the mid-late 1990's specifically right around when he beat Morrison and when he barely lost to Lewis.

#6...so you're a rabid Tyson fan, I have nothing against the guy I just like to reasonably and rationally look at the guy's career that's the difference between us

[The Promoter]

Tell me how many fighters Marciano defended his title against, 5 I think? and Foreman, 3 I think?

Marciano is big time over rated. As for him having a solid chin, an old light heavyweight put him on his ass Mike would slaughter him!!

Tyson was going to fight Ray Mercer as a warm up before he fought Lewis but Lewis went to court and stopped it from happening, he didnt want Mike sharpening up!!

This is what gets me (as well as all the other kids that post on forums who dont know much about boxing), you didnt obviously know that Mike had a signed match with Mercer in 02, so you either havent been following boxing very long, or havent been paying attention, either way youv proved your opinion should be taken with a pinch of salt

Allow me to explain this to you.....

#1 If title defenses mean anything (and obviously they do) then JOE LOUIS is KING! And because of that I have Joe Louis as my #1 All-Time Greatest Heavyweight with Marciano and Ali following respectively.

#2 Marciano = UNDEFEATED.....FACT

#3 Marciano wasn't far from being a light heavyweight himself, the most he ever weighed for a fight was 192 vs Keene Simmons in 1951 but he mainly stayed at or around 186-188....FACT

#4 It wouldn't matter if Tyson had a fucking time machine he would NEVER have beaten Lennox Lewis ditto re: Evander Holyfield

#5 So Mike Tyson wanted to fight Ray Mercer in 2002....Wlad fought Ray in 2002, demolished him and he gets no credit for it so why would Tyson have gotten credit for it? I'm talking Mercer in the mid-late 1990's specifically right around when he beat Morrison and when he barely lost to Lewis.

#6...so you're a rabid Tyson fan, I have nothing against the guy I just like to reasonably and rationally look at the guy's career that's the difference between us

Right on the money, no one disputes that Tyson was an exciting and gifted fighter, that is true. But those who would put him into to some "untouchable class" aren't being realistic. Styles make fights and his handlers knew who to feed him to make him look that much better. I always believed that a mid 90's version of Mercer or Foreman would have given Mike HUGE problems. Also one other thing I'd like to point out; Mike was not a multidimensional fighter, if "plan A" wasn't working he never had a "plan B", and this became evident as he became older and his "plan A" skills were not as dominant...

[boxingbantz]

What's funny is that Tyson is a notorious bully in the ring then when he "gets" it back everyone screams foul..I've seen him unprovoked try to break guys arms in the ring. All of his trainers each have said that he's a bully that when someone stands up to him he backs down and the way evander kept shoving him around the ring and outboxing him caused his flip outs not the "Evander headbutts"

To be fair, that only happened once.

[ross]

#1 If title defenses mean anything (and obviously they do) then JOE LOUIS is KING! And because of that I have Joe Louis as my #1 All-Time Greatest Heavyweight with Marciano and Ali following respectively.

#2 Marciano = UNDEFEATED.....FACT

#3 Marciano wasn't far from being a light heavyweight himself, the most he ever weighed for a fight was 192 vs Keene Simmons in 1951 but he mainly stayed at or around 186-188....FACT

#4 It wouldn't matter if Tyson had a fucking time machine he would NEVER have beaten Lennox Lewis ditto re: Evander Holyfield

#5 So Mike Tyson wanted to fight Ray Mercer in 2002....Wlad fought Ray in 2002, demolished him and he gets no credit for it so why would Tyson have gotten credit for it? I'm talking Mercer in the mid-late 1990's specifically right around when he beat Morrison and when he barely lost to Lewis.

#6...so you're a rabid Tyson fan, I have nothing against the guy I just like to reasonably and rationally look at the guy's career that's the difference between us

Right on the money, no one disputes that Tyson was an exciting and gifted fighter, that is true. But those who would put him into to some "untouchable class" aren't being realistic. Styles make fights and his handlers knew who to feed him to make him look that much better. I always believed that a mid 90's version of Mercer or Foreman would have given Mike HUGE problems. Also one other thing I'd like to point out; Mike was not a multidimensional fighter, if "plan A" wasn't working he never had a "plan B", and this became evident as he became older and his "plan A" skills were not as dominant...[/QUOTE]

Ha ha, Louis! The term "bum of the monthwas invented for him!!

When Mike was with Rooney, he would never have got put on his ass by Tony Glento and neither would he have got knocked the fuuck out by Schmeling

Marcianos heavy weight defenced were against light heavyweights

If Mike fought Mercer in 02 he would have been facing someone his own age and stage of career and certainly wouldnt have had a size advantage and largely Wlad will never get any credit because he gets knocked out by Sanders everyday of the week and needs steroids same as Evan Fields

Lewis took 4 million to run away from Mike rather than force him to fight and earn over 20