how can i learn to slip punches?

[HerbM]

Slipping shots, isnt done with the Head, its done with the Feet. Move the Head without engaging the feet youre Off bBalance, and have to go back where you started, easy to read.

That makes sense and fits my Systema training which emphasizes form (vertical, natural, balanced posture) generally avoiding 'kinks in the spine' or quickly restoring a vertical spine and balance if tactical necessity requires you to temporarily compromise your form.

My boxing coach however has us practice what he calls 'fading' -- bending at the waist, just far enough to take the head aside as the punch arrives, preferably outside so as to avoid moving the head in front of the opponent's other hand.

Mike Tyson at his height sure seemed to be able to use such movement to his advantages, and there have been boxers who specialize in bob and weave.

For myself, I have recently surprised myself by being able to use side to side head movement to avoid punches and deliver my own -- this is almost unnatural to me as my spinal mobility is somewhat reduced by arthritis and it is contrary to my nature and that Systema training mentioned above.

On the other hand, I have found that anyone who fades/slips predictably is pretty easy to track and hit, plus as you say Scrap it destroys their form/balance and they must (generally predictably) restore it to continue working effectively.


I don't know what the correct answer is, but it does seem worth discussing further and it is quite possible that the answer is to build this skill but use it judiciously.

[Scrap]

When Tyson stopped using joints to move His Head He lost it. His Feet became wide with no mobilty, and lost movement and the inabilaty for His Oral and Ocular cavity to work as it should naturally. His greatest asset He lost, movement at speed.

[Andre]

If you havent got a sparring partner you can tape a glove on to the end of a broom stick and get your misses to move around in jab fashion trying to land one on you.

They will enjoy that too. If they can get in ten clean shots in 3 minutes you'll do the sweeping for them.

Win /win

[Fran@myboxingcoach]

I'm with Scrap, well to a point as I don't really know what 'oral and ocular cavity' relates to (I thought I'd be more likely to find these on those 'other' forums that I visit!) Anyways, Tyson used to use slips to brilliant effect, mixing them in with various combinations to deliver crippling damage on opponents. All of his early work slipping was dictated by the legs, not the waist. As soon as his limited head movement was generated by waist movement, he started getting clipped with alarming regularity.

Set 2 simple rules:

1) The slips I perform will be technically perfect. I will assure technical perfection by using mirrors to ensure form is correct and the movement is as economical as possible, and
2) I will slip before and after every shot/group of shots. Do this during shadow boxing, bagwork, pads and sparring.

Ropes tied across the rings are good, as was Wayne's suggestion of a swinging tennis ball on a string.

Good luck

Fran

PS - remember that slips and rolls are also excellent methods of 'feinting' an opponent to prompt a reaction...multi-purpose skill!

[HerbM]

...Anyways, Tyson used to use slips to brilliant effect, mixing them in with various combinations to deliver crippling damage on opponents. All of his early work slipping was dictated by the legs, not the waist. As soon as his limited head movement was generated by waist movement, he started getting clipped with alarming regularity.

...

Would you please elaborate on the subject of 'legs' as opposed to waist in slipping?

If it is too difficult to explain in words, maybe this would be a good subject for your video clips on your excellent web site.

My spinal mobility is reduced, and my knees are really shot, but once I found out I could get advantage by using movement similar to Tyson's I started doing it.

I say similar, because I just started doing this due to some prompting from my sparring mates with no expectation it would help.

When I found I got hit less and could still get inside and hit (more) it became something worth doing. Prior to that, slipping was just something theoretical that I practiced (badly) because Coach aid to do so.

I also realized at this point that what I was doing was closer to Tyson's wild-looking weaving than to what we were practicing. [I am not saying Tyson did this wildly, but merely that the unpredictable nature of his movement looked wild and made him hard to hit when he entered.]

One of the differences in the Buster Douglas fight is that either Tyson was not 'doing it right' anymore or Douglas had it figured out -- Tyson couldn't reliably use this method to get inside.

I don't 'need' this skill much against other beginners, but I have been practicing it because it seems to be key to my success against the more skillful or experienced boxers in our gym.

For all I know I could be doing something terrible that will only show when working with even more skillful fighters (e.g., better than the best guys who are currently working with me.)

[Fran@myboxingcoach]

Hey Herb

Good to chat again. There is an article on slipping punches on the site; navigation is not great at the moment, so I'll aim to improve it (the 'Look in Here' drop down on the right is your best bet.) Have a look at the vid, read the associated article and then let me know any questions via this thread. The slip does require some knee bending on the inside slip not so much on the outside slip), but it sounds like this may be a 'lesser of two evils' situation in terms of discomfort when slipping shots; I guess you will need to experiment.

Take it easy mate

Fran

[HerbM]

Thanks -- I had seen that before and really thought I could use it, but then didn't find a chance to practice it at the gym.

I am really glad you reminded me of that video.

This is entirely different from the 'fade' my coach teaches. (Not saying which is better but that doesn't matter because at worst I will have another choice of movement.)

This looks like something that I can do effectively as well -- need to try it with some punches coming at me.

Thanks again Fran.

--
HerbM

[Scrap]

Simply the Hips cant move without assistance of the joints of the Legs. Hips are not made to move by themselves cant happen, 6 degrees at the most is all you will get in laterell movement.

[Dizaster]

The bag tied up with string and swinging was the best for me... I found when your learning to slip and you have someone throwing punches at you, even not very hard, it's easy to tense up a bit and exaggerate the movement/swivel/lean to avoid the punch...

With the swinging bag though, it's much easier to be relaxed at first, and it's almost a revelation when you realize just how little you need to swivle to completely slip the bag...
With a bit of practice, it feels like you're barely traveling an inch while the bag goes whizzing clean past your ear... Which seems impossible as the bag is much wider than an inch.. But if your relaxed and use your whole body together from your feet, it takes barely a twitch to slip a punch...

I didn't learn that though until I actually starting using a ball swinging on string.. When avoiding punches I always tried to add much more into the movement than was needed. Putting myself off balance...


As for technique, for me the best place to start was to just get in your regular stance, and as the ball approaches you, simply swivle left or right on the balls of your feet about maybe 10 - 15 degrees,,, keeping your whole stance completely aligned, and just letting the swivle rotate you. That alone can almost be enough for a punch to slide past your ear..
You can work from there to reduce the amount of movement needed, or add more, or adjust if you are setting up for a counter or come back with a punch swivling the other direction.. With even a tiny swivle on the balls of your feet, it may only need a 10th of an inch movement around your torso/knees to add enough movement to avoid the punch/bag/ball..

As with just about every movement in boxing or sport, you are fastest and most agile when you are relaxed. If you're tensing up all your muscles to slip a punch, your putting way to much into it... That's why I suggest using a bag to slip first to learn how to do the movement relaxed, and constantly monitor the amount of effort needed to actually avoid the punch..

[Scrap]

Here is a little thing I found, one of the boys.

[WayneFlint]

Here is a little thing I found, one of the boys.

Well i know this has answered a lot of my questions on slipping, what does everyone else think to scraps video?

[Dizaster]

If you havent got a sparring partner you can tape a glove on to the end of a broom stick and get your misses to move around in jab fashion trying to land one on you.

They will enjoy that too. If they can get in ten clean shots in 3 minutes you'll do the sweeping for them.

Win /win

Is that because if you actually strap the gloves onto her hands, she'll really quickly get the urge to proper punish you for all the times you havn't done the sweeping?

"hey!! stop punching so much! i'm trying to actually learn something here"
"Sorry it's just fun (trying to punch your head in)"

That's how it's always gone for me... Just no control in girls..

[oakleyno1]

cheers guys, looks like im gonna get hit lots with the broomstick for the next few weeks haha

[boxer777]

A couple of drills i find useful for developing the slip are;
1 kneel opposite a partner just inside his/her range(they are also kneeling BTW) and work for a round with your guard up allowing them to throw straight punches at you. your job is to slip them. The kneeling takes the footwork out of the equasion. experiment with rotating as you slip to 'load'.
2. Stand about a metre and a half away from a wall - you must be facing the wall - in your boxing guard. then get your partner to throw a tennis ball against the wall -from behind you - in such away that after it bounces off the wall it comes straight for your face. then slip it !!!! works the reflexes well.
hope they help.