How good could Zab have been... if?

[killersheep]

Zab Judah is the Lebron James of boxing. Batman skillset, Robin mentality.

I'd say he's more like Larry Bird, not for any reason really except I don't understand the comparison at all.

[amat]

Majesty?! I'm not trying to debate basketball here but that was inexcusably bad. If you said Zab was the Tracy McGrady of boxing then yea you would have a more valid point. Oh well, gah that one was frustrating.

Zab is an extremely talented fighter, obviously we know now that it was foolish for some like those on ESPN to call him Pernell Whitaker with power like they did early on. Zab's problem was that he was sooo fast, one of the fastest punchers ever that he never really grew his skillset beyond that. He still made to many mistakes and that's what cost him against the top flight opposition. Stupid mistakes like pulling straight backwards, dropping his hands after punches, never figuring out a solution to stop those right hands, loading up on single punches to much, ect. Basically he fought a lot of times like he was a knucklehead or disinterested. It culminated with the loss to Baldomir where imo he got something taken from him that he would never get back, his momentum and psyche were shot to shit at that point.

Beating Amir Khan will get it back though

But honestly Majesty, HONESTLY?!??! Did you immediately regret typing that afterwards? I hope so...

[amat]

Ah shit, Majesty's delusions forgot to make me include this.

A FOCUSED Zab is going to beat anyone in the division.

[Majesty]

Majesty?! I'm not trying to debate basketball here but that was inexcusably bad. If you said Zab was the Tracy McGrady of boxing then yea you would have a more valid point. Oh well, gah that one was frustrating.

Zab is an extremely talented fighter, obviously we know now that it was foolish for some like those on ESPN to call him Pernell Whitaker with power like they did early on. Zab's problem was that he was sooo fast, one of the fastest punchers ever that he never really grew his skillset beyond that. He still made to many mistakes and that's what cost him against the top flight opposition. Stupid mistakes like pulling straight backwards, dropping his hands after punches, never figuring out a solution to stop those right hands, loading up on single punches to much, ect. Basically he fought a lot of times like he was a knucklehead or disinterested. It culminated with the loss to Baldomir where imo he got something taken from him that he would never get back, his momentum and psyche were shot to shit at that point.

Beating Amir Khan will get it back though

But honestly Majesty, HONESTLY?!??! Did you immediately regret typing that afterwards? I hope so...

No, he is exactly like LeBron James.

LeBron James is made for the regular season, he has the best stats and mvp etc etc all that stuff. But when the post season comes, and he has to step up and its do or die, he doesn't show up or he chokes and they lose. Yet he was hyped like he was gonna be the next Michael Jordan yet he isn't even close he's been in the league 7 years only been to the finals once and got swept and hasn't even won the eastern conference since then. LeBron has all the skills in the world, but he doesn't have the killer instinct that Jordan, or Kobe, or Magic or Byrd had. Batman skills, Robin mentality.

Zab Judah is just like that, he is made for the "regular season" of boxing. He can show you all the talent get all the accolades, but then when the post season comes, as in when he is in a fight where he has to step up, dig deep or go do or die, he 'doesn't show up' or he chokes and he loses. Yet he was hyped like he was gonna be the next phenom in boxing but he hasn't been anywhere close to that. Zab has all the skills in the world, but he doesn't have the mentality if a Floyd Mayweather, of a Pernell Whitaker or all the greats they tried to put him in a class with before he'd even accomplished anything. Batman skills, Robin mentality.


That's why I make that comparison, and it should make sense.

[killersheep]

Majesty?! I'm not trying to debate basketball here but that was inexcusably bad. If you said Zab was the Tracy McGrady of boxing then yea you would have a more valid point. Oh well, gah that one was frustrating.

Zab is an extremely talented fighter, obviously we know now that it was foolish for some like those on ESPN to call him Pernell Whitaker with power like they did early on. Zab's problem was that he was sooo fast, one of the fastest punchers ever that he never really grew his skillset beyond that. He still made to many mistakes and that's what cost him against the top flight opposition. Stupid mistakes like pulling straight backwards, dropping his hands after punches, never figuring out a solution to stop those right hands, loading up on single punches to much, ect. Basically he fought a lot of times like he was a knucklehead or disinterested. It culminated with the loss to Baldomir where imo he got something taken from him that he would never get back, his momentum and psyche were shot to shit at that point.

Beating Amir Khan will get it back though

But honestly Majesty, HONESTLY?!??! Did you immediately regret typing that afterwards? I hope so...

No, he is exactly like LeBron James.

LeBron James is made for the regular season, he has the best stats and mvp etc etc all that stuff. But when the post season comes, and he has to step up and its do or die, he doesn't show up or he chokes and they lose. Yet he was hyped like he was gonna be the next Michael Jordan yet he isn't even close he's been in the league 7 years only been to the finals once and got swept and hasn't even won the eastern conference since then. LeBron has all the skills in the world, but he doesn't have the killer instinct that Jordan, or Kobe, or Magic or Byrd had. Batman skills, Robin mentality.

Zab Judah is just like that, he is made for the "regular season" of boxing. He can show you all the talent get all the accolades, but then when the post season comes, as in when he is in a fight where he has to step up, dig deep or go do or die, he 'doesn't show up' or he chokes and he loses. Yet he was hyped like he was gonna be the next phenom in boxing but he hasn't been anywhere close to that. Zab has all the skills in the world, but he doesn't have the mentality if a Floyd Mayweather, of a Pernell Whitaker or all the greats they tried to put him in a class with before he'd even accomplished anything. Batman skills, Robin mentality.


That's why I make that comparison, and it should make sense.

He averages almost 30 points and 10 rebounds per game in post season play. That's not exactly choking. That's why I don't get the comparison. Take a look at the link below and compare PPG in regular season vs. post season.

NBA.com : LeBron James Career Stats Page

[Majesty]

Majesty?! I'm not trying to debate basketball here but that was inexcusably bad. If you said Zab was the Tracy McGrady of boxing then yea you would have a more valid point. Oh well, gah that one was frustrating.

Zab is an extremely talented fighter, obviously we know now that it was foolish for some like those on ESPN to call him Pernell Whitaker with power like they did early on. Zab's problem was that he was sooo fast, one of the fastest punchers ever that he never really grew his skillset beyond that. He still made to many mistakes and that's what cost him against the top flight opposition. Stupid mistakes like pulling straight backwards, dropping his hands after punches, never figuring out a solution to stop those right hands, loading up on single punches to much, ect. Basically he fought a lot of times like he was a knucklehead or disinterested. It culminated with the loss to Baldomir where imo he got something taken from him that he would never get back, his momentum and psyche were shot to shit at that point.

Beating Amir Khan will get it back though

But honestly Majesty, HONESTLY?!??! Did you immediately regret typing that afterwards? I hope so...

No, he is exactly like LeBron James.

LeBron James is made for the regular season, he has the best stats and mvp etc etc all that stuff. But when the post season comes, and he has to step up and its do or die, he doesn't show up or he chokes and they lose. Yet he was hyped like he was gonna be the next Michael Jordan yet he isn't even close he's been in the league 7 years only been to the finals once and got swept and hasn't even won the eastern conference since then. LeBron has all the skills in the world, but he doesn't have the killer instinct that Jordan, or Kobe, or Magic or Byrd had. Batman skills, Robin mentality.

Zab Judah is just like that, he is made for the "regular season" of boxing. He can show you all the talent get all the accolades, but then when the post season comes, as in when he is in a fight where he has to step up, dig deep or go do or die, he 'doesn't show up' or he chokes and he loses. Yet he was hyped like he was gonna be the next phenom in boxing but he hasn't been anywhere close to that. Zab has all the skills in the world, but he doesn't have the mentality if a Floyd Mayweather, of a Pernell Whitaker or all the greats they tried to put him in a class with before he'd even accomplished anything. Batman skills, Robin mentality.


That's why I make that comparison, and it should make sense.

He averages almost 30 points and 10 rebounds per game in post season play. That's not exactly choking. That's why I don't get the comparison. Take a look at the link below and compare PPG in regular season vs. post season.

NBA.com : LeBron James Career Stats Page

Yeah but what they won't tell you is in some of the most important games for the Cavs he'll lead his team in turnovers. That's why I say he chokes.

For instance the Boston series this year, sure he got his triple double, but he also had 9 turnovers, 6 of which was without any defenders really on him. In the final 8 minutes of the game he barely shot the ball, and if he touched it he gave it away. See he gets his stats 30 points etc, but it doesn't produce victories in the games it counts because he does other things that prevent it. And in the final minutes, with the game still in reach, he just gave up, he stopped trying and was complacent on the court, and his team soon followed suit not even fouling in the last moments of the game. LeBron waved the white flag first with the game still in reach and his team basically followed suit. He crumbles under pressure, he gets his stats because thats how talented he is, but he doesn't mentally have the makeup of a great. Thats why I say he has batman talent with a Robin mentality. get what I mean?

[amat]

Majesty Lebron rarely chokes, if you take him off the Cavs then you have a team the Indiana Pacers could beat in a 7 game series.

Lebron holds imo the single most dominant performance I've ever seen in a team sport playoff game, with that game 6 performance against Detroit. Judah beating Spinks can't touch that The Cavs lose despite Lebron not because of him, how was the Kobe show doing in the couple years after Shaq left before they got Gasol? When has Lebron ever tanked as hard as Kobe did against the Suns a few years ago?

You're talking utter bullshit here, EVERYONE knows Lebron is one of the more tenacious players in the league and in typical starr fashion, you misrepresent things to make your point.

[killersheep]

Majesty?! I'm not trying to debate basketball here but that was inexcusably bad. If you said Zab was the Tracy McGrady of boxing then yea you would have a more valid point. Oh well, gah that one was frustrating.

Zab is an extremely talented fighter, obviously we know now that it was foolish for some like those on ESPN to call him Pernell Whitaker with power like they did early on. Zab's problem was that he was sooo fast, one of the fastest punchers ever that he never really grew his skillset beyond that. He still made to many mistakes and that's what cost him against the top flight opposition. Stupid mistakes like pulling straight backwards, dropping his hands after punches, never figuring out a solution to stop those right hands, loading up on single punches to much, ect. Basically he fought a lot of times like he was a knucklehead or disinterested. It culminated with the loss to Baldomir where imo he got something taken from him that he would never get back, his momentum and psyche were shot to shit at that point.

Beating Amir Khan will get it back though

But honestly Majesty, HONESTLY?!??! Did you immediately regret typing that afterwards? I hope so...

No, he is exactly like LeBron James.

LeBron James is made for the regular season, he has the best stats and mvp etc etc all that stuff. But when the post season comes, and he has to step up and its do or die, he doesn't show up or he chokes and they lose. Yet he was hyped like he was gonna be the next Michael Jordan yet he isn't even close he's been in the league 7 years only been to the finals once and got swept and hasn't even won the eastern conference since then. LeBron has all the skills in the world, but he doesn't have the killer instinct that Jordan, or Kobe, or Magic or Byrd had. Batman skills, Robin mentality.

Zab Judah is just like that, he is made for the "regular season" of boxing. He can show you all the talent get all the accolades, but then when the post season comes, as in when he is in a fight where he has to step up, dig deep or go do or die, he 'doesn't show up' or he chokes and he loses. Yet he was hyped like he was gonna be the next phenom in boxing but he hasn't been anywhere close to that. Zab has all the skills in the world, but he doesn't have the mentality if a Floyd Mayweather, of a Pernell Whitaker or all the greats they tried to put him in a class with before he'd even accomplished anything. Batman skills, Robin mentality.


That's why I make that comparison, and it should make sense.

He averages almost 30 points and 10 rebounds per game in post season play. That's not exactly choking. That's why I don't get the comparison. Take a look at the link below and compare PPG in regular season vs. post season.

NBA.com : LeBron James Career Stats Page

Yeah but what they won't tell you is in some of the most important games for the Cavs he'll lead his team in turnovers. That's why I say he chokes.

For instance the Boston series this year, sure he got his triple double, but he also had 9 turnovers, 6 of which was without any defenders really on him. In the final 8 minutes of the game he barely shot the ball, and if he touched it he gave it away. See he gets his stats 30 points etc, but it doesn't produce victories in the games it counts because he does other things that prevent it. He crumbles under pressure, he gets his stats because thats how talented he is, but he doesn't mentally have the makeup of a great. Thats why I say he has batman talent with a Robin mentality. get what I mean?

So if you look at the turnovers stat yes it does go up from 3.29 per game to 3.73 per game.
This is getting to the point of splitting hairs really. Yeah he had a bad game against Boston with turnovers, hardly enough to call him a choke artist. Basketball is a team sport, the reason they lost does not come down exclusively to him, it's a team loss. It's not like he's falling apart at the highest levels, he just had a bad game.

[Majesty]

Majesty Lebron rarely chokes, if you take him off the Cavs then you have a team the Indiana Pacers could beat in a 7 game series.

Lebron holds imo the single most dominant performance I've ever seen in a team sport playoff game, with that game 6 performance against Detroit. Judah beating Spinks can't touch that The Cavs lose despite Lebron not because of him, how was the Kobe show doing in the couple years after Shaq left before they got Gasol? When has Lebron ever tanked as hard as Kobe did against the Suns a few years ago?

You're talking utter bullshit here, EVERYONE knows Lebron is one of the more tenacious players in the league and in typical starr fashion, you misrepresent things to make your point.

Lebron is one of the 3 best players in the league. He has great talent and is a good player but mentally he doesn't have the make up of a great. Like I said he is made for the regular season. It's wonderful he has all these great performances. But you know, Dominique Wilkins also one of the greatest players of the last 25 years had great scoring and statistical performances, but it didn't get his team a ring.

There is no doubt LeBron has talent. But when it comes time to step up, and get your team a win, in a crucial moment he doesn't. He showed it in the Orlando series last year, and he showed it in the Boston series this year. I'm not the only one who thinks this.

NBA writer skip bayless said it best. "he is a prince james crumbling under the pressure of king james which was put on him."

You can say all you want about how great and tenacious he is. But the fact of the matter is, he has been in the league nearly 8 years, he has only won the eastern conference once. Until he wins a ring he will always be underachieving the accolades put on him since the beginning of his career. it wasnt even him that was saving them in this post season, it was his point guard Mo Williams. In game 1 they were down by a lot, Mo Williams came on in the 4th quarter with about 12 straight points which brought it back for the Cavs and got them that victory. In game 6 the game Lebron got his triple double, Mo Williams made 21 points in the first half to keep the game close while LeBron was absent.


So you can say what you want about how great LeBron is, but if his greatest claim to fame is winning the Eastern Conference once, then he is underachieving and not the "great" everyone tries to make him be.

[Majesty]

Majesty?! I'm not trying to debate basketball here but that was inexcusably bad. If you said Zab was the Tracy McGrady of boxing then yea you would have a more valid point. Oh well, gah that one was frustrating.

Zab is an extremely talented fighter, obviously we know now that it was foolish for some like those on ESPN to call him Pernell Whitaker with power like they did early on. Zab's problem was that he was sooo fast, one of the fastest punchers ever that he never really grew his skillset beyond that. He still made to many mistakes and that's what cost him against the top flight opposition. Stupid mistakes like pulling straight backwards, dropping his hands after punches, never figuring out a solution to stop those right hands, loading up on single punches to much, ect. Basically he fought a lot of times like he was a knucklehead or disinterested. It culminated with the loss to Baldomir where imo he got something taken from him that he would never get back, his momentum and psyche were shot to shit at that point.

Beating Amir Khan will get it back though

But honestly Majesty, HONESTLY?!??! Did you immediately regret typing that afterwards? I hope so...

No, he is exactly like LeBron James.

LeBron James is made for the regular season, he has the best stats and mvp etc etc all that stuff. But when the post season comes, and he has to step up and its do or die, he doesn't show up or he chokes and they lose. Yet he was hyped like he was gonna be the next Michael Jordan yet he isn't even close he's been in the league 7 years only been to the finals once and got swept and hasn't even won the eastern conference since then. LeBron has all the skills in the world, but he doesn't have the killer instinct that Jordan, or Kobe, or Magic or Byrd had. Batman skills, Robin mentality.

Zab Judah is just like that, he is made for the "regular season" of boxing. He can show you all the talent get all the accolades, but then when the post season comes, as in when he is in a fight where he has to step up, dig deep or go do or die, he 'doesn't show up' or he chokes and he loses. Yet he was hyped like he was gonna be the next phenom in boxing but he hasn't been anywhere close to that. Zab has all the skills in the world, but he doesn't have the mentality if a Floyd Mayweather, of a Pernell Whitaker or all the greats they tried to put him in a class with before he'd even accomplished anything. Batman skills, Robin mentality.


That's why I make that comparison, and it should make sense.

He averages almost 30 points and 10 rebounds per game in post season play. That's not exactly choking. That's why I don't get the comparison. Take a look at the link below and compare PPG in regular season vs. post season.

NBA.com : LeBron James Career Stats Page

Yeah but what they won't tell you is in some of the most important games for the Cavs he'll lead his team in turnovers. That's why I say he chokes.

For instance the Boston series this year, sure he got his triple double, but he also had 9 turnovers, 6 of which was without any defenders really on him. In the final 8 minutes of the game he barely shot the ball, and if he touched it he gave it away. See he gets his stats 30 points etc, but it doesn't produce victories in the games it counts because he does other things that prevent it. He crumbles under pressure, he gets his stats because thats how talented he is, but he doesn't mentally have the makeup of a great. Thats why I say he has batman talent with a Robin mentality. get what I mean?

So if you look at the turnovers stat yes it does go up from 3.29 per game to 3.73 per game.
This is getting to the point of splitting hairs really. Yeah he had a bad game against Boston with turnovers, hardly enough to call him a choke artist. Basketball is a team sport, the reason they lost does not come down exclusively to him, it's a team loss. It's not like he's falling apart at the highest levels, he just had a bad game.

How many 'bad games' in the postseason is LeBron allowed? His team has had the best record in the East for two seasons in a row, and in each of those seasons he's failed to win the east or even make it to the finals. Actually the one time he made it to the finals was when he was 22 and not prepared I'll admit for the spurs. You don't have the best record in the regular season 2 years in a row to "not show up" in the playoffs. Know what I mean?

This is why I compare him to Zab exclusively. Because like LeBron. If you bring up the times which Zab hasn't stepped up, people bring up his great performances and say "he wasn't himself, he had a bad night, if a focused Zab Judah shows up he beats anyone." How many times does Judah have to lose at the top before people realize he isn't as great as people made him out to be and doesn't have the mentality to be that great?

And as far as LeBron goes im not the only one who feels that way, there are many NBA writers who feel that LeBron just isn't the next "one" they all made him out to be. there is absolutely no doubt he is one of the best pure talents.

There is no one that has that kind of size strength and ability of LeBron James its second to none. But he is the proof that it takes more then just talent to win a ring. basketball is a team sport yeah. But when the rest of your team is stepping up and having their best seasons and you are in there to be the closer and put games away. Like something a Kobe Bryant would do and is there to do, LeBron you'd expect would do the same, but he doesn't, he doesn't have the killer do or die mentality that Jordan did or Kobe does. NBA greats that have said he was the best player in the league last year(people like Jerry West) this year say they question his will. So it isn't an isolated thought.

[killersheep]

Majesty Lebron rarely chokes, if you take him off the Cavs then you have a team the Indiana Pacers could beat in a 7 game series.

Lebron holds imo the single most dominant performance I've ever seen in a team sport playoff game, with that game 6 performance against Detroit. Judah beating Spinks can't touch that The Cavs lose despite Lebron not because of him, how was the Kobe show doing in the couple years after Shaq left before they got Gasol? When has Lebron ever tanked as hard as Kobe did against the Suns a few years ago?

You're talking utter bullshit here, EVERYONE knows Lebron is one of the more tenacious players in the league and in typical starr fashion, you misrepresent things to make your point.

Lebron is one of the 3 best players in the league. He has great talent and is a good player but mentally he doesn't have the make up of a great. Like I said he is made for the regular season. It's wonderful he has all these great performances. But you know, Dominique Wilkins also one of the greatest players of the last 25 years had great scoring and statistical performances, but it didn't get his team a ring.

There is no doubt LeBron has talent. But when it comes time to step up, and get your team a win, in a crucial moment he doesn't. He showed it in the Orlando series last year, and he showed it in the Boston series this year. I'm not the only one who thinks this.

NBA writer skip bayless said it best. "he is a prince james crumbling under the pressure of king james which was put on him."

You can say all you want about how great and tenacious he is. But the fact of the matter is, he has been in the league nearly 8 years, he has only won the eastern conference once. Until he wins a ring he will always be underachieving the accolades put on him since the beginning of his career. it wasnt even him that was saving them in this post season, it was his point guard Mo Williams. In game 1 they were down by a lot, Mo Williams came on in the 4th quarter with about 12 straight points which brought it back for the Cavs and got them that victory. In game 6 the game Lebron got his triple double, Mo Williams made 21 points in the first half to keep the game close while LeBron was absent.


So you can say what you want about how great LeBron is, but if his greatest claim to fame is winning the Eastern Conference once, then he is underachieving and not the "great" everyone tries to make him be.

Let's do some comparisons with Kobe Bryant, which for the sake of argument I will ASSUME (duct tape attached) you consider to not be a choke artist

Post season average per game
Points
Lebron: 29.1
Kobe: 29.0

Field Goal %
Lebron: .502
Kobe: .477

3 point %
Lebron: .400
Kobe: .398

Turn overs
Lebron: 3.8
Kobe: 3.4

So if averaging 1 extra turnover in every 3rd game constitutes dominance from choke artist, I don't know where your comparison holds water man.

[Majesty]

Majesty Lebron rarely chokes, if you take him off the Cavs then you have a team the Indiana Pacers could beat in a 7 game series.

Lebron holds imo the single most dominant performance I've ever seen in a team sport playoff game, with that game 6 performance against Detroit. Judah beating Spinks can't touch that The Cavs lose despite Lebron not because of him, how was the Kobe show doing in the couple years after Shaq left before they got Gasol? When has Lebron ever tanked as hard as Kobe did against the Suns a few years ago?

You're talking utter bullshit here, EVERYONE knows Lebron is one of the more tenacious players in the league and in typical starr fashion, you misrepresent things to make your point.

Lebron is one of the 3 best players in the league. He has great talent and is a good player but mentally he doesn't have the make up of a great. Like I said he is made for the regular season. It's wonderful he has all these great performances. But you know, Dominique Wilkins also one of the greatest players of the last 25 years had great scoring and statistical performances, but it didn't get his team a ring.

There is no doubt LeBron has talent. But when it comes time to step up, and get your team a win, in a crucial moment he doesn't. He showed it in the Orlando series last year, and he showed it in the Boston series this year. I'm not the only one who thinks this.

NBA writer skip bayless said it best. "he is a prince james crumbling under the pressure of king james which was put on him."

You can say all you want about how great and tenacious he is. But the fact of the matter is, he has been in the league nearly 8 years, he has only won the eastern conference once. Until he wins a ring he will always be underachieving the accolades put on him since the beginning of his career. it wasnt even him that was saving them in this post season, it was his point guard Mo Williams. In game 1 they were down by a lot, Mo Williams came on in the 4th quarter with about 12 straight points which brought it back for the Cavs and got them that victory. In game 6 the game Lebron got his triple double, Mo Williams made 21 points in the first half to keep the game close while LeBron was absent.


So you can say what you want about how great LeBron is, but if his greatest claim to fame is winning the Eastern Conference once, then he is underachieving and not the "great" everyone tries to make him be.

Let's do some comparisons with Kobe Bryant, which for the sake of argument I will ASSUME (duct tape attached) you consider to not be a choke artist

Post season average per game
Points
Lebron: 29.1
Kobe: 29.0

Field Goal %
Lebron: .502
Kobe: .477

3 point %
Lebron: .400
Kobe: .398

Turn overs
Lebron: 3.8
Kobe: 3.4

So if averaging 1 extra turnover in every 3rd game constitutes dominance from choke artist, I don't know where your comparison holds water man.

I keep saying that LeBron is king of the stats. he can lead in stats which is fine, but Kobe is in the finals and LeBron isn't. Why? Because Kobe didn't get 9 turnovers in the key game of the series. Stats don't factor in the one thing that makes you great, clutch. Kobe in the clutch time steps up, whether he scores 30 or whether he scores 21. When LeBron is in the clutch, he turns over the ball or he misses. That's the point im making. His mentality isn't that of a great. LeBron's stats are great, but if stats meant everything he would have 4 rings by now. What those stats won't tell you is in game 5 a very important game against the Celtics at home, just two games away from looking unstoppable in game 3 where he scored 21 points in the first quarter!! He goes to this game.. and at home, the series is tied 2-2, and the Cavs have the best home season record so they are expected to win especially if LeBron steps up, so LeBron goes into such an important game and.. he shoots the ball only 14 times, makes and makes 3 of them finishing with 15 points and the Cavs lose. Alright people say he had a bad game that he will really really step up in game 6 and show his greatness like he did in game 3. So he goes into game 6, he gets his triple double, but he also has 9 turnovers in key points of the game where he was needed to step up. I just don't know of a great that goes from looking so unstoppable and so great in one game to not doing anything, it's like a switch went off in his head. It's confusing.


Charles Barkley would explain it better, and Charles considers LeBron the best in the league right now but even he has been disappointed in him.

it wasn't just the bad game, it is his mentality during those games. It's not like he had a bad game but he was still trying to make it work, it was more like, bad game and he was content to not do anything after a certain point.
YouTube - Charles Barkley "I'm 100 % Dissapointed In LeBron James".flv

"I'm 100 percent disappointed, not the fact that he didn't have a good game. But his mentality about it.. I go back I played against Jordan, Malone, Ewing, their gun was gonna be empty by the end of the game, I did not see that tonight, it happened in game 2 but tonight in the biggest game of THE SEASON. This was the biggest game of the season, I did not see the aggressive that I need to see from an MVP at all."

There is no reason why someone who can produce numbers and stats like this guy can, cannot produce in the most crucial games of the season.

Like Zab, in the sense that there is no reason why someone as talented as he is, cannot produce in the most important fights in his career. It wouldn't surprise me if he lost to Khan really. Zab does so great in other fights he looks like a world beater, but in the most crucial fights of his career, he doesn't show up. Alright he showed up once against Cory Spinks.... yeah...

[killersheep]

Majesty Lebron rarely chokes, if you take him off the Cavs then you have a team the Indiana Pacers could beat in a 7 game series.

Lebron holds imo the single most dominant performance I've ever seen in a team sport playoff game, with that game 6 performance against Detroit. Judah beating Spinks can't touch that The Cavs lose despite Lebron not because of him, how was the Kobe show doing in the couple years after Shaq left before they got Gasol? When has Lebron ever tanked as hard as Kobe did against the Suns a few years ago?

You're talking utter bullshit here, EVERYONE knows Lebron is one of the more tenacious players in the league and in typical starr fashion, you misrepresent things to make your point.

Lebron is one of the 3 best players in the league. He has great talent and is a good player but mentally he doesn't have the make up of a great. Like I said he is made for the regular season. It's wonderful he has all these great performances. But you know, Dominique Wilkins also one of the greatest players of the last 25 years had great scoring and statistical performances, but it didn't get his team a ring.

There is no doubt LeBron has talent. But when it comes time to step up, and get your team a win, in a crucial moment he doesn't. He showed it in the Orlando series last year, and he showed it in the Boston series this year. I'm not the only one who thinks this.

NBA writer skip bayless said it best. "he is a prince james crumbling under the pressure of king james which was put on him."

You can say all you want about how great and tenacious he is. But the fact of the matter is, he has been in the league nearly 8 years, he has only won the eastern conference once. Until he wins a ring he will always be underachieving the accolades put on him since the beginning of his career. it wasnt even him that was saving them in this post season, it was his point guard Mo Williams. In game 1 they were down by a lot, Mo Williams came on in the 4th quarter with about 12 straight points which brought it back for the Cavs and got them that victory. In game 6 the game Lebron got his triple double, Mo Williams made 21 points in the first half to keep the game close while LeBron was absent.


So you can say what you want about how great LeBron is, but if his greatest claim to fame is winning the Eastern Conference once, then he is underachieving and not the "great" everyone tries to make him be.

Let's do some comparisons with Kobe Bryant, which for the sake of argument I will ASSUME (duct tape attached) you consider to not be a choke artist

Post season average per game
Points
Lebron: 29.1
Kobe: 29.0

Field Goal %
Lebron: .502
Kobe: .477

3 point %
Lebron: .400
Kobe: .398

Turn overs
Lebron: 3.8
Kobe: 3.4

So if averaging 1 extra turnover in every 3rd game constitutes dominance from choke artist, I don't know where your comparison holds water man.

I keep saying that LeBron is king of the stats. he can lead in stats which is fine, but Kobe is in the finals and LeBron isn't. Why? Because Kobe didn't get 9 turnovers in the key game of the series. Stats don't factor in the one thing that makes you great, clutch. Kobe in the clutch time steps up, whether he scores 30 or whether he scores 21. When LeBron is in the clutch, he turns over the ball or he misses. That's the point im making. His mentality isn't that of a great. LeBron's stats are great, but if stats meant everything he would have 4 rings by now. What those stats won't tell you is in game 5 a very important game against the Celtics at home, just two games away from looking unstoppable in game 3 where he scored 21 points in the first quarter!! He goes to this game.. and at home, the series is tied 2-2, and the Cavs have the best home season record so they are expected to win especially if LeBron steps up, so LeBron goes into such an important game and.. he shoots the ball only 14 times, makes and makes 3 of them finishing with 15 points and the Cavs lose. Alright people say he had a bad game that he will really really step up in game 6 and show his greatness like he did in game 3. So he goes into game 6, he gets his triple double, but he also has 9 turnovers in key points of the game where he was needed to step up. I just don't know of a great that goes from looking so unstoppable and so great in one game to not doing anything, it's like a switch went off in his head. It's confusing.

Kobe has the MOST turnovers of any NBA player in the playoffs this postseason and has had 4 games with 5 or more turnovers himself the difference in reality is that Kobe is not the Lakers and LeBron is not the Cavs, this is a team sport. If Kobe was on the Cavaliers and Lebron was on the Lakers the entire situation would be completely different.

lets go apples to apples so far, we can keep this going throughout the finals if you want. That way we can compare when the "clutch" games come up.

versus Celtics

Game 1
Points
Lebron: 35
Kobe: 30

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 1

Turnovers
Lebron: 2
Kobe: 4

Game 2
points
Lebron: 24
Kobe: 21

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 4

Turnovers
Lebron: 5
Kobe: 5

[amat]

Lakers
Celtics
Spurs
Heat
Pistons
Bulls

Those are the last 6 franchises to win the finals Majesty, ALL of those teams had more then 1 great player and bunch of decent players. If Kobe won a title without Gasol/Shaq or Jordan did it without Pippen then yeah maybe you have a point but NO, you don't.

Who are the 3 current great players in the league btw? Kobe/Lebron/Howard?

[Majesty]

Majesty Lebron rarely chokes, if you take him off the Cavs then you have a team the Indiana Pacers could beat in a 7 game series.

Lebron holds imo the single most dominant performance I've ever seen in a team sport playoff game, with that game 6 performance against Detroit. Judah beating Spinks can't touch that The Cavs lose despite Lebron not because of him, how was the Kobe show doing in the couple years after Shaq left before they got Gasol? When has Lebron ever tanked as hard as Kobe did against the Suns a few years ago?

You're talking utter bullshit here, EVERYONE knows Lebron is one of the more tenacious players in the league and in typical starr fashion, you misrepresent things to make your point.

Lebron is one of the 3 best players in the league. He has great talent and is a good player but mentally he doesn't have the make up of a great. Like I said he is made for the regular season. It's wonderful he has all these great performances. But you know, Dominique Wilkins also one of the greatest players of the last 25 years had great scoring and statistical performances, but it didn't get his team a ring.

There is no doubt LeBron has talent. But when it comes time to step up, and get your team a win, in a crucial moment he doesn't. He showed it in the Orlando series last year, and he showed it in the Boston series this year. I'm not the only one who thinks this.

NBA writer skip bayless said it best. "he is a prince james crumbling under the pressure of king james which was put on him."

You can say all you want about how great and tenacious he is. But the fact of the matter is, he has been in the league nearly 8 years, he has only won the eastern conference once. Until he wins a ring he will always be underachieving the accolades put on him since the beginning of his career. it wasnt even him that was saving them in this post season, it was his point guard Mo Williams. In game 1 they were down by a lot, Mo Williams came on in the 4th quarter with about 12 straight points which brought it back for the Cavs and got them that victory. In game 6 the game Lebron got his triple double, Mo Williams made 21 points in the first half to keep the game close while LeBron was absent.


So you can say what you want about how great LeBron is, but if his greatest claim to fame is winning the Eastern Conference once, then he is underachieving and not the "great" everyone tries to make him be.

Let's do some comparisons with Kobe Bryant, which for the sake of argument I will ASSUME (duct tape attached) you consider to not be a choke artist

Post season average per game
Points
Lebron: 29.1
Kobe: 29.0

Field Goal %
Lebron: .502
Kobe: .477

3 point %
Lebron: .400
Kobe: .398

Turn overs
Lebron: 3.8
Kobe: 3.4

So if averaging 1 extra turnover in every 3rd game constitutes dominance from choke artist, I don't know where your comparison holds water man.

I keep saying that LeBron is king of the stats. he can lead in stats which is fine, but Kobe is in the finals and LeBron isn't. Why? Because Kobe didn't get 9 turnovers in the key game of the series. Stats don't factor in the one thing that makes you great, clutch. Kobe in the clutch time steps up, whether he scores 30 or whether he scores 21. When LeBron is in the clutch, he turns over the ball or he misses. That's the point im making. His mentality isn't that of a great. LeBron's stats are great, but if stats meant everything he would have 4 rings by now. What those stats won't tell you is in game 5 a very important game against the Celtics at home, just two games away from looking unstoppable in game 3 where he scored 21 points in the first quarter!! He goes to this game.. and at home, the series is tied 2-2, and the Cavs have the best home season record so they are expected to win especially if LeBron steps up, so LeBron goes into such an important game and.. he shoots the ball only 14 times, makes and makes 3 of them finishing with 15 points and the Cavs lose. Alright people say he had a bad game that he will really really step up in game 6 and show his greatness like he did in game 3. So he goes into game 6, he gets his triple double, but he also has 9 turnovers in key points of the game where he was needed to step up. I just don't know of a great that goes from looking so unstoppable and so great in one game to not doing anything, it's like a switch went off in his head. It's confusing.

Kobe has the MOST turnovers of any NBA player in the playoffs this postseason and has had 4 games with 5 or more turnovers himself the difference in reality is that Kobe is not the Lakers and LeBron is not the Cavs, this is a team sport. If Kobe was on the Cavaliers and Lebron was on the Lakers the entire situation would be completely different.

lets go apples to apples so far, we can keep this going throughout the finals if you want. That way we can compare when the "clutch" games come up.

versus Celtics

Game 1
Points
Lebron: 35
Kobe: 30

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 1

Turnovers
Lebron: 2
Kobe: 4

Game 2
points
Lebron: 24
Kobe: 21

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 4

Turnovers
Lebron: 5
Kobe: 5

Actually let's do that. But we'd need a seperate thread for that.

Stats aren't everything like I keep saying. This ain't about talent, it's about mentality. And Kobe has a greater winners mentality then LeBron does. Just as Floyd has a better winners mentality then Zab does. You keep bringing up stats and I keep saying and I'll say it again, stats arent everything. I compare Zab to LeBron in their mentality. LeBron will own the stats I keep telling you that. But his mentality isn't that of a great. And if Kobe was on the Cavs it would be completely different, his stats would go up and on the Lakers lebrons would go down. Derek Fisher said it best, the triangle offense is completely different and it's in a controlled offense where everyone is involved if you put Kobe on another team in a customary offense he'd average 40 points an night. If you put Kobe Bryant in the Cavs offense he'd score much more. And if you put LeBron in the Lakers offense he'd score less. That's why Im saying it isn't about stats. It's about who wants it more when the games on the line.