Well done usa!!

[AdamGB]

I don't know why everybody is so surprised...

We didn't even qualify for the Euro's. How exactly do you go from that to winning the world cup? Just making it past the first stage will be an improvement.

We are not an elite world class team... it's not the management, the players don't need to get inspired to awake some slumbering football rapture - we're just not that good, not much more to it than that I'm afraid.

If we were that good and it was management and tactics etc, then maybe we'd have only beaten Algeria (who haven't been in the world cup for 24 years and who's captain had never been in an international tournament) by 4 nil and not 5 nil. Not had a goalless draw

Massive hype job... every time round... ignore the papers...

No amount of changes is going to have us beating Brazil, Spain, France, Argentina etc. no fucking chance.

That's why I loved it when Newcastle went down... all these dick heads blaming the club owners and saying that Newcastle were a slumbering giant... as big as Chelsea etc... fuck off

This post is ridiculous Adam. So are you saying we should just give up supporting our national team and that we'll never amount to anything?

Besides it crap, as we SHOULD be good. We have some of the biggest clubs in the world, in fact I believe Man Utd is the biggest, we have arguably the best and richest premiership league in world football, and we have undoubtably several absolute world class players.

With the players, domestic infrastructure, fanbase, money, name etc we should be one of the top 4 or 5 teams in Europe no excuses.

Players like Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard etc could get into virtually any national team in the world. But they are not simply not performing.

That's not the best these players can do, not even close.

Not at all Bilbo... Algeria and the USA's etc fans are supporting their teams, who I'm sure 99% of them know are not going to win the world cup. Nothing wrong with that.

It's the arrogance and gullibility of the average English football fan during the pre tournament hype that gets me... we've 'consistently under performed for decades'... are you not seeing the pattern here?

A few of our players probably could get into most top clubs... but they wouldn't see half of the fuss that they do over here.. they wouldn't ge anywhere near the appraisal of accolades off the fans of those clubs.

They're treated like gods in this country... which is part of the reason why they think they don't actually have to play any football and still win.

It's a lot easier to play well when you're surrounded by the best players in the world, but when you're getting balls from the likes of Heskey and every touch you make needs to count for something thats when you see whether you're a good player or not.

Gerrard managed to trip over thin air for fucks sake... every touch of the ball Rooney had (all four of them) was bollocks... I could play a better game of football than he did, not even joking.

There's under performing and then there's being out played by Algeria... it's not like you could see we were better but nothing was coming together... England didn't look a class above Algeria... in my opinion Algeria were pretty unlucky not to walk away with 2 points.

good individuals don't make a good team... they don't have the attitude (Rooney being 'upset at the fans' who are stupid enough to make him obscenely rich says it all) to be a good team... and it's the team I'm talking about. I would be more shocked at us making the quater finals than I would if we went out this round.

Not saying don't support the team... but people need to get real... that way they'll be able to enjoy the cup instead of suffering the sheeple angst they seem to go through every time we 'underperform every time' (ie our expectations are always set higher than our actual ability)

[Kev]

I don't know why everybody is so surprised...

We didn't even qualify for the Euro's. How exactly do you go from that to winning the world cup? Just making it past the first stage will be an improvement.

We are not an elite world class team... it's not the management, the players don't need to get inspired to awake some slumbering football rapture - we're just not that good, not much more to it than that I'm afraid.

If we were that good and it was management and tactics etc, then maybe we'd have only beaten Algeria (who haven't been in the world cup for 24 years and who's captain had never been in an international tournament) by 4 nil and not 5 nil. Not had a goalless draw

Massive hype job... every time round... ignore the papers...

No amount of changes is going to have us beating Brazil, Spain, France, Argentina etc. no fucking chance.

That's why I loved it when Newcastle went down... all these dick heads blaming the club owners and saying that Newcastle were a slumbering giant... as big as Chelsea etc... fuck off

This post is ridiculous Adam. So are you saying we should just give up supporting our national team and that we'll never amount to anything?

Besides it crap, as we SHOULD be good. We have some of the biggest clubs in the world, in fact I believe Man Utd is the biggest, we have arguably the best and richest premiership league in world football, and we have undoubtably several absolute world class players.

With the players, domestic infrastructure, fanbase, money, name etc we should be one of the top 4 or 5 teams in Europe no excuses.

Players like Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard etc could get into virtually any national team in the world. But they are not simply not performing.

That's not the best these players can do, not even close.

Not at all Bilbo... Algeria and the USA's etc fans are supporting their teams, who I'm sure 99% of them know are not going to win the world cup. Nothing wrong with that.

It's the arrogance and gullibility of the average English football fan during the pre tournament hype that gets me... we've 'consistently under performed for decades'... are you not seeing the pattern here?

A few of our players probably could get into most top clubs... but they wouldn't see half of the fuss that they do over here.. they wouldn't ge anywhere near the appraisal of accolades off the fans of those clubs.

They're treated like gods in this country... which is part of the reason why they think they don't actually have to play any football and still win.

It's a lot easier to play well when you're surrounded by the best players in the world, but when you're getting balls from the likes of Heskey and every touch you make needs to count for something thats when you see whether you're a good player or not.

Gerrard managed to trip over thin air for fucks sake... every touch of the ball Rooney had (all four of them) was bollocks... I could play a better game of football than he did, not even joking.

There's under performing and then there's being out played by Algeria... it's not like you could see we were better but nothing was coming together... England didn't look a class above Algeria... in my opinion Algeria were pretty unlucky not to walk away with 2 points.

good individuals don't make a good team... they don't have the attitude (Rooney being 'upset at the fans' who are stupid enough to make him obscenely rich says it all) to be a good team... and it's the team I'm talking about. I would be more shocked at us making the quater finals than I would if we went out this round.

Not saying don't support the team... but people need to get real... that way they'll be able to enjoy the cup instead of suffering the sheeple angst they seem to go through every time we 'underperform every time' (ie our expectations are always set higher than our actual ability)

You are totally missing the point of being a football fan Adam. People don't sit down and make an objective assessment of their national team's realistic chances before they decide how much to support them, it's the World Cup, it only comes around every four years and most blokes, and even a lot of women like to celebrate it for the massively partisan sporting occasion it is. It's a great month to get behind your national team, support your country if not even the guys on the pitch and to hope and believe that this time we can pull it off.

There is nothing wrong at all with that, it's a festival not a science, and most of us with pathetically ordinary lives and nothing of universal significance going on like to take advantage of this month long carnival by catching up with mates, going to the pub en masse, enjoying the type of collective community and comaradre with strangers amongst the people of Britain that apart from during the World Cup and the Euro's never ever happens in this country.

You don't even have to be a big football fan to appreciate it, it's a great unifying celebration for everybody, just cheer on your national side.

I really think you are missing the point of what the World Cup is for most people.


Anyway, that said, England should be much better than they are. The individual compenents are better than the actual machine. What we can do to fix it I don't know but with the football heritage, the league infrastructure, the financial resources, the domestic player base and the fans that we have there is no real excuse for us not to be a top 8 footballing nation consistently.

I haven't read many papers I admit but I've not heard any serious commentator say we are favourites for the world cup so your whole argument is a straw man.

I think before the tournament anything less than a quarter final place would have been considered disappointing and most hoped we could reach the semi's.

I see no reason why those expectations are too high at all, even now.

Germany lost to lowly Serbia, tournament favourites Spain were defeated by fucking Switzerland, France are all but out of the competition and Italy laboured to a draw in their first game.

The Netherlands aside the whole of Europe has looked pretty crap, in fact only Argentina have really impressed thus far.

England aren't out of it yet, and instead of sitting back and critiquing them negatively just so you can have the frankly weird satisfaction of being able to say 'I told you to so!' to those who are actually patriotic, why not put on an England shirt, get down the pub with a group of mates, paint your face, get pissed and cheer like mad for England?

Sure, we may not win, but I guarantee if we do you'll have one hell of a great fucking night conga-ing through your city centre and jumping up and down celebrating like an idiot with mates and even strangers.

That's what the World Cup is all about!

[AdamGB]

That's my point Algeria etc aren't going to win it... but there's nothing wrong with them getting behind their team though... or us getting behind ours.

They know they're not going to win but luckily they can enjoy their team putting up a good effort with out being arrogant cunts about it... we can't do either!

and please don't call supporting our football team patriotic!! Could go off on a massive tangent about my thoughts on that... but I'm going to spare the forum for now!

I'd support the team if they were utter shite but gave it there all... as it stands they're a decent team who so far have given fuck all... why would I get behind that?

If I had to chose between a group of Algerians who have never played in the world cup, who earn a pitance compared to the vast majority of the england players and who go out and put up a good, honest effort or a bunch of stuck up posers (supported by some of the worlds top sports scientists, nutritionists, coaches etc) who can't even be arsed to show up - I'm not going to pick the latter just because they're from the same country as me!

Especially not the likes of John Terry... or Ashley Cole who looked like he was wearing more make up than his ex missus does!

[Kev]

That's my point Algeria etc aren't going to win it... but there's nothing wrong with them getting behind their team though... or us getting behind ours.

They know they're not going to win but luckily they can enjoy their team putting up a good effort with out being arrogant cunts about it... we can't do either!

and please don't call supporting our football team patriotic!! Could go off on a massive tangent about my thoughts on that... but I'm going to spare the forum for now!

I'd support the team if they were utter shite but gave it there all... as it stands they're a decent team who so far have given fuck all... why would I get behind that?

If I had to chose between a group of Algerians who have never played in the world cup, who earn a pitance compared to the vast majority of the england players and who go out and put up a good, honest effort or a bunch of stuck up posers (supported by some of the worlds top sports scientists, nutritionists, coaches etc) who can't even be arsed to show up - I'm not going to pick the latter just because they're from the same country as me!

Especially not the likes of John Terry... or Ashley Cole who looked like he was wearing more make up than his ex missus does!

Now your just contradicting your original post? I agree they have completely let us down and are playing well below what they should be, but you posted we were wrong to expect more because we only have a very average team. Now we are decent?

And also, who said we were going to win the World Cup? A newspaper or fans showing support for their national team is not nearly the same as objectively assessing our chances and making us the favourites.

What football analysts are suggesting we should be the favourites to lift the trophy?

Most would see anything less than the quarters as disappointed (I still would) and would have regarded a real success as reaching the semi's. I think those are realistic objectives and not hype at all.

Which experts said we were going to win it?

[AdamGB]

I never said experts... I'm talking about guys I've seen in pubs, at work, in the gym etc... who have watched too many beer adverts and who talk about 1966 and Gazza crying too much. ((my news feed post match or what ever poster was suffering angst and telling everybody to fuck off in your 'fuck America thread' are rife with it )

Read plenty of articles in the sun/mirror saying that Rooney will be this cup's Ronaldo etc whether or not these guys are respected analysts isn't the point really... it's the fools stupid enough to read it and buy into it and those are who I'm on about.

and again I'm not saying don't support the team... just don't be arrogant deluded twats about them. aimed at nobody in perticular... just the general attitudes I'm personally coming across.

Can't see a contradiction at all... I'd get behind a team who put up an honest effort, whether they have a chance or not... it's not the same as acting arrogantly over a bunch of under performing, frankly over rated posers.

Not got a problem with our team's ability, people supporting football teams or what ever... but the attitudes of most of our players and some of our fans doesn't really attract or interest me into becoming a massive football fan.

Massive fan of almost any sport but at times the attitude and culture that now surrounds football, especially in england turns my stomach.























Plus I never got over having my tender young heart broken back in 1996