Extending Arms - Shadow Boxing

[The Student]

Hey guys,

I've been getting into the habit of not extending my punches all the way through when I shadow box. I tend to be focusing on speed (especially with the jab) and I focus on throwing it out and pulling it back fast.

Today, my cousin who's been boxing for about a year and a half watched me shadow box and he kept calling me out on not extending my punches.

He said you should always extend your jab when you shadow box. Or else throwing short range punches will become habitual and I wont be using my reach effectively.

Fair enough that makes sense.. But when I watch a vid like Scrap's So You Want Fast Hands, it doesn't seem like the fighters are fully extending their arms, and I trust that there is some sort of wisdom behind that.

I know I've read several times that speed comes from the first 3" of every movement... and shadow boxing is based on building great technique and speed. So how do you apply that concept without getting into the habit of always throwing short range punches?

... So basically I guess all I'm asking is....

Do you suggest always extending your punches while shadow boxing? Why or Why Not?

Thanks

[cambay411]

I heard you shouldnt fully extend because of injury. I dont know tho. I keep my hands loose and extend my fingers sometimes to loosen up.

[Scrap]

Ask yourself this, if you had a car that had broken down, how would your arms be to push it. So you wouldnt tighten the Tendons or do the Joints damage. Trouble starts with bad maintainanace of Tendons tightening mostly through shock, bringing bad alinement of muscle and joints.

[The Student]

^^ I'd probably just call a tow truck

.. but yea, that makes sense, you would definitely not want to have ur arms fully extended at all.

To be honest, I felt really unnatural when I was fully extending my arms.. it just didn't feel right. But I figured it was just because I was used to throwing quick short shots while I shadow box...

But now, how would u stop yourself from getting into the habit of throwing short range punches and flurries all the time.. I'm a pretty small guy with 67" reach so I need to learn to utilize my range to the best of my ability.

[HerbM]

Hey guys,

I've been getting into the habit of not extending my punches all the way through when I shadow box. I tend to be focusing on speed (especially with the jab) and I focus on throwing it out and pulling it back fast.

Today, my cousin who's been boxing for about a year and a half watched me shadow box and he kept calling me out on not extending my punches.

He said you should always extend your jab when you shadow box. Or else throwing short range punches will become habitual and I wont be using my reach effectively.

Fair enough that makes sense.. But when I watch a vid like Scrap's So You Want Fast Hands, it doesn't seem like the fighters are fully extending their arms, and I trust that there is some sort of wisdom behind that.

I know I've read several times that speed comes from the first 3" of every movement... and shadow boxing is based on building great technique and speed. So how do you apply that concept without getting into the habit of always throwing short range punches?

... So basically I guess all I'm asking is....

Do you suggest always extending your punches while shadow boxing? Why or Why Not?

Thanks

I do extend -- I will only throw as hard (or as fast) as I can do this without undue shock on my elbow (or even shoulder).

Much of my training comes from Systema (Russian Martial Arts) where every effort is made to remove ALL unnecessary tension from every punch -- and this includes never stopping a punch through muscle power since that would by necessity mean SLOWING DOWN the PUNCH and adding INHIBITORY TENSION to the OPPOSING muscles.

You literally "throw" the punches and let them go ballistically -- within the limits of not doing joint damage when punching the air.

On the bag, you ensure this by making the BAG STOP EVERY PUNCH -- I do not stop the punch, the bag does.

This ensure DEEP HEAVY punches.

This also means you can get really hard punches from really short movements too -- you use nothing put extension, with no hold back and your short punches will get really fast and hard also.

Even though I am still a boxing beginner (8 months), most who works with me spontaneously mention how HEAVY my punches are.

Let 'em go.

--
HerbM

[Scrap]

When I push a car, if my memory serves me right, I lock my arms with palms down. So the shoulder and elbows are locked and stop the bicep from working as the antagonist muscle. If the arms are pumped out as they should be in Technique sessions with good form, there shouldnt be a problem. If there is its bad technique

[The Student]

hmm, ok something is definitely wrong with my form then.. gotta continue working on that.

and yes, I dont know what the hell I was thinking when I wrote my last post.. always got to have ur arms locked and use your leg muscles to push a car.

Would it be a good idea to get someone to video tape me shadow boxing, and post it up and get pointers?

I just hate being on videos that are open for viewing on the internet, but I guess that's something I might have to deal with to get some good critiquing of my form and technique.

Thanks guys

[HerbM]

Part of the issue might be in using shadow boxing to practice speed and power -- instead of using it primarily for perfecting your form, movement, and chaining together smooth combinations.

if you shoot you hands out at top speed and power with nothing to stop them then you are likely going to be putting a lot of stress on your joints (esp. elbow and perhaps shoulder), or you are going to be training in a lot of counter-tension and/or bad form by stopping those punches short using muscle power.

Either you practice perfect form or you are practicing to do it imperfectly. What sense does it make to be practicing to do something incorrectly?

Practice speed and power (in the best form you can manage) against the bag. Practice perfecting your form and combinations by shadow boxing while relaxing.

--
HerbM

[The Student]

Either you practice perfect form or you are practicing to do it imperfectly. What sense does it make to be practicing to do something incorrectly?

Practice speed and power (in the best form you can manage) against the bag. Practice perfecting your form and combinations by shadow boxing while relaxing.

--
HerbM

That makes a lot of sense actually.. Thanks for the advice!

[Fran@myboxingcoach]

Hey guys

Interesting thread. When throwing straight shots, extend your arms...end of story! Whether you're shadow boxing, hitting bags, sparring or fighting, straight shots must incorporate an extended arm. A tip that I try to reinforce in our boxers: when shadow boxing, put an imaginary head and body in front of you. Accelerate the shot, any shot, onto the target and 'snap' it onto the chin/under the ribs without punching through the target. This helps with speed and power and if the technique is correct (weight going onto back leg) you'll never go off-balance when you miss a shot during fighting/sparring.

It's all good!

Fran

[badr_hari]

if the technique is correct (weight going onto back leg) you'll never go off-balance when you miss a shot during fighting/sparring.

wasn't the weight transfer from the back leg to the front leg, while throwing straight punches ?

[HerbM]

[...]Accelerate the shot, any shot, onto the target and 'snap' it onto the chin/under the ribs without punching through the target.[...]

This makes it SOUND like punching to the target, hitting on the surface, rather than punching into the target, and I am pretty sure you don't mean that, so would you please elaborate and explain what you mean by not 'punching through the target'?

Thanks,

--
HerbM

[HerbM]

if the technique is correct (weight going onto back leg) you'll never go off-balance when you miss a shot during fighting/sparring.

wasn't the weight transfer from the back leg to the front leg, while throwing straight punches ?

In general, you don't want to transfer weight onto the front foot when punching; it makes you very vulnerable and decreases you mobility for avoiding what comes at you next.

This is especially important when you MISS (as Fran was pointing out) because then the tendency is even stronger to transfer weight there even more strongly (since there is not contact to help you stop the motion) and thus makes the problem worse for misses.

--
HerbM

[jahmez]

You can't generate power with a straight right by transferring your weight to your back foot.

[jahmez]

Shadowboxing is a great way to develop speed and power as long as you are focusing on technique first. The best way to throw fluid and fast combinations is to practice them shadowboxing.