Naz-vs-Marquez? The greatest duck in history? Fact.

**Fenster** · 07-27-2010 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by Fenster

Marquez was offered a career high payday of $400,000 to face Naz in the year 2000. He turned it down claiming he wasn't ready for Naz, even though he spent two years as WBO no.1 mandatory. Naz ruined the unfortunate Augie Sanchez instead.

The question is - where would Marquez be without this duck of Naz? It was clearly a great move. Fact.

Discuss

That right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.

90% of your post is utter drivel.

This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp

There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.

A link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 there

All three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.

Read and weep boy -

Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed

Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."

"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."

Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."

Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."

LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...

There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.

Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.

**ono** · 07-27-2010 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by Fenster

Marquez was offered a career high payday of $400,000 to face Naz in the year 2000. He turned it down claiming he wasn't ready for Naz, even though he spent two years as WBO no.1 mandatory. Naz ruined the unfortunate Augie Sanchez instead.

The question is - where would Marquez be without this duck of Naz? It was clearly a great move. Fact.

Discuss

That right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.

90% of your post is utter drivel.

This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp

There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.

A link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 there

All three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.

Read and weep boy -

Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed

Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."

"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."

Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."

Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."

LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...

There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.

Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.

Not really. The fact that Marquez mentions the two year wait suggests that under fair circumstances he would have taken the fight. You could quite easily make a justifiable case for Hamed ducking Marquez which VD has already done.

**Fenster** · 07-27-2010 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by Fenster

Marquez was offered a career high payday of $400,000 to face Naz in the year 2000. He turned it down claiming he wasn't ready for Naz, even though he spent two years as WBO no.1 mandatory. Naz ruined the unfortunate Augie Sanchez instead.

The question is - where would Marquez be without this duck of Naz? It was clearly a great move. Fact.

Discuss

That right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.

90% of your post is utter drivel.

This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp

There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.

A link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 there

All three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.

Read and weep boy -

Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed

Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."

"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."

Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."

Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."

LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...

There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.

Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.

Not really. The fact that Marquez mentions the two year wait suggests that under fair circumstances he would have taken the fight. You could quite easily make a justifiable case for Hamed ducking Marquez which VD has already done.

Not really.

Naz was busy unifying the featherweight division. Marquez was a nobody, viewed as a boring fighter, HBO weren't interested in him.

It's like claiming Margarito ducked Michael Jennings - Jennings was his mandatory for over a year.

Anyway, lets stick to facts, Marquez ducked a career high payday offer to face the Naz fella. Undeniable, concrete, iron plated fact. Fact.

Discuss

**milmascaras1** · 07-27-2010 05:48 PM

it looks like naz turned out to be a no heart fighter by retiring one fight after his ass kicking at the hands of barrera! turns out marquez will be remember more kindly in the annals of boxing instead! marquez turned to have a superior career to the weak hearted naz, who quit the game after he was exposed!

**skel1983** · 07-27-2010 05:56 PM

Marquez then accpeted a fight with Chris John for a £20 marks and Spencer voucher, weird world we live in.

Saying that though would of been a good fight back then but like the poster above Marquez is the one who has had the better career and proved he is hall of famer.

**donnydarkoIRL** · 07-27-2010 07:45 PM

In the first Marquez and Pacquaio fight, Marquez rose from the canvas three times in the first round and put on one of the finest comeback displays I've ever seen.

Anyone who displays that bravery can't be accused of cowardice.

**Andre** · 09-06-2010 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by hitmandonny

In the first Marquez and Pacquaio fight, Marquez rose from the canvas three times in the first round and put on one of the finest comeback displays I've ever seen.

Anyone who displays that bravery can't be accused of cowardice.

Thats a good point.

He came over as a fighter who originally wanted to be recognized by his own countrymen to be the best, his soul aim was towards Barrera and Morrales for a long time.

When you have a plan like that you dont want your road disrupted by someone like Naz, call it a duck if you must but every fighter and trainer picks their way through to where they wish to end up by weighing up risk /rewards. In hindsight I dont think he would of swapped a win or loss to Naz for a win or a loss to his fellow countrymen.

ICB · 07-27-2010 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by Fenster

Marquez was offered a career high payday of $400,000 to face Naz in the year 2000. He turned it down claiming he wasn't ready for Naz, even though he spent two years as WBO no.1 mandatory. Naz ruined the unfortunate Augie Sanchez instead.

The question is - where would Marquez be without this duck of Naz? It was clearly a great move. Fact.

Discuss

That right there says it all. Marquez waited and waited for Hamed to fight him. While Hamed begged and begged the WBO to let him fight some one else. After giving him so many passes the WBO was considering stripping him of the title. But Hamed promised he would fight Marquez after he fought Cesar Soto. He wanted to unify the titles first. Hamed beat Soto in one of the worst fights of 1999. Marquez canceled his fight with Roque Cassiani to prepare for Hamed. Than in one of the most skanless, cowardice moves ever in Boxing history Hamed backs out of the fight and in turn faces Vuyani Bungu. Now Bungu was a fine Super Bantamweight. But he had never fought as a Featherweight before. Not to mention he hadn't fought in over a year. Yet some how Hamed deemed him worthy of a title shot. Marquez considered legal action but decided against it. He was done with Hamed and his games. Hamed creamed Bungu while Marquez went on with the Cassiani fight. Afterwards Hamed for like the 10th time again told Marquez he would fight him. Marquez said if he was serious about fighting him give him $500,000. Hamed showed he wasn't serious and said no.

90% of your post is utter drivel.

This little snippet comes from Antonio Curtis, Marquez former matchmaker at Forum Boxing - "When the WBO said they were going to make a unification, I forgot who the hell they were supposed to be fighting. What happened is this, as soon as they told us no, we took another fight. As soon as we took another fight, then they called us when we had already signed for another fight and then they wanted us to fight Hamed, Curtis recalled, of those events. Now, I wanted to pull that fight, to fight Hamed. But Nacho said no. He would've gotten a half-million for the fight and Nacho turned that fight down." http://www.maxboxing.com/kim/kim031607.asp

There you go. Marquez shamelessly ducked Naz. Fact.

A link that leads no where. Just like your post. And I here i though you would actually provide something of substance. I'm disappointed in myself for thinking that. Anyway this is pretty easy standard stuff. The champion must defend against his mandatory within 6 months to a year. Hamed went over 2 years avoiding Marquez. In the mean time he fought an ancient fighter (Wilfredo Vazquez) a seriously out classed fighter (Wayne McCullough) and domestic club fighter (Paul Ingle). That's what you call ducking 101 there

All three much bigger names than Marquez back then. Anyway, i've something even better, straight from the horses mouth Juan Manuel Marquez admitting his duckage of the Naz fella.

Read and weep boy -

Featherweight Marquez said no to Hamed

Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion. "I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared."

"Hamed is difficult to fight. Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory."

Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms."

Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."

LAS VEGAS RJ:SPORTS: Featherweight Marquez said no to H...

There you go, you can't argue with the facts, Marquez turned down a career high payday because he didn't feel ready for Naz.

Marquez bottled the Naz fight. Fact.

Not really. The fact that Marquez mentions the two year wait suggests that under fair circumstances he would have taken the fight. You could quite easily make a justifiable case for Hamed ducking Marquez which VD has already done.

Not really.

Naz was busy unifying the featherweight division. Marquez was a nobody, viewed as a boring fighter, HBO weren't interested in him.

It's like claiming Margarito ducked Michael Jennings - Jennings was his mandatory for over a year.

Anyway, lets stick to facts, Marquez ducked a career high payday offer to face the Naz fella. Undeniable, concrete, iron plated fact. Fact.

Discuss

If your saying its a fact, hen what is the point of discussing it ? i don't get it. So at that time JMM didn't fancy the fight and you've provided the link, so what else is there to discuss ?

But to try and say JMM ducked Naseem Hamed to get a rise out of people is just ridiculous. Considering the opposition the man has faced.

And also considering JMM beat the fighter that ended Naseem Hamed's career, and went even twice with one of the best fighters of all time.

And that is a fact, JMM also lost to Freddie Norwood who he should of got the win against, perhaps he wasn't mentally up to at that point, but prior to that he was ready willing and able, it was just at that point. He was coming off a bad loss and a loss which he didn't deserve, it was just wrong timing end of.

**Master** · 07-27-2010 08:59 PM

JMM was ducked, so he was give one opportunity in 2 years at short notice and low pay does not mean he avoided the fight because he was probably expected to say no under those conditions.

**Fenster** · 07-27-2010 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Master

JMM was ducked, so he was give one opportunity in 2 years at short notice and low pay does not mean he avoided the fight because he was probably expected to say no under those conditions.

Low pay? That offer was probably 10X his biggest previous payday. He was a chump change fighter. HBO didn't want to know him.

Short notice? He fought a week later against Daniel Jimenez (probably for 100 bucks and a crate of sols).

**Master** · 07-28-2010 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Master

JMM was ducked, so he was give one opportunity in 2 years at short notice and low pay does not mean he avoided the fight because he was probably expected to say no under those conditions.

Low pay? That offer was probably 10X his biggest previous payday. He was a chump change fighter. HBO didn't want to know him.

Short notice? He fought a week later against Daniel Jimenez (probably for 100 bucks and a crate of sols).

He needed more time to fight Naz, to prepare.

**Fenster** · 07-27-2010 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by ICB