Interesting explanation of improving speed!

[bchristian620]

Check this video out. Please bear with it. The trainer makes an excellent point about the 'speed' of the punch relating to not telegraphing the punch.



Here is my question to you guys:

Is there a training tool/device that I can use to help tighten my guard? My elbows flare out and I telegraph my punches with slight lateral elbow movement. I was thinking.... can I work on footwork drills with a soccor ball between my forarms? Or is there a rubber band that I can use to help cinch them in so the forarms are perpendicular to the floor?

[Scrap]

You would be surprised, how a few stretches solve the problem. Its all down to bad alinement of the muscles in the upper back and shoulders. Bad maintainance and technique give the wrong messages. Over time muscles reacts to the first memory they have, more so if its the only one. Its all about practising good technique.

[bchristian620]

what would be a favorable stretch to target this area?

I guess I could use a band, attach it to a post on the side of me, stand in a proper stance and have the tension of the band pull my wrist to the outside? This seems to stretch the shoulder area as long as I keep the elbow pointed at the floor. Is this wise?

[Scrap]

[Scrap]

[nikola_ganchev]

I like this thread. When i watch some of the great KO artists i think just of that... No one sees it coming. Typical is for example for George Foreman. When i watch him from the side he seems slow, but the boxers in the ring think something different... With the fights of Joe Louis is even more fun. The boxers stay in there like hit from a bold... They know that the punches are coming, but its always "What the heck was that". They both punched with the elbol inside and use this murderous shovel hooks... I think that the problem of our generation is that we are abuse (most of us at least) and this stops us of staying thight, compact and all punches become haymakers. The common thinking is: the biger the better... But as a result we end up looking just silly. We eat our graves

Thanks for the routine.

[God.in.my.corner]

I like that fitball arm stretch. Never tried it. Gonna give it a go tonight.

I agree with Nikola, Joe Louis is a perfect example of those types of punches. Short, straight shots with no telegraph with the elbow in. No sense in having fast hands if you have bad technique, right?

[Scrap]

GIMC, do yourself a favour they work in tandem those 2 stretches. The stick opens the Pectorials, important for protecting the shoulder joint, and helps its mobility.Also helps it support the back, and gives flexability all round.

[HerbM]

[Nothing I am going to write below is in conflict with what is say above (by Scrap etc) so please consider it IN ADDITION...]

Research in the last few years is now being publicized explaining how "speed" of reaction is actually obtained in sports and how any type of "talent" can be created. To a great degree reacting to a tennis serve is mainly dependent on having the perceptual circuits trained to SEE where the ball is going even before it is hit (while in the ball is in the air, racquet is moving towards it etc).

It's not primarily a raw speed issue, but a perception/reaction. Weird thing is that even though there is something very similar in Ping Pong (table tennis) the two talents don't really overlap -- each must be trained separately to work at a pro level.

Although none of this research seems to have looked at boxing directly, it is practically certain that such will apply to boxing as well.

There are very specific methods to train such skills.

The books you want to read are: "The Talent Code" by Daniel Coyle, "Bounce" by Matthew Syed, "Talent is OverRated" by Geoffrey Colvin, etc.

These are going to be life changing books for a lot of people, especially among athletes and coaches.

"Deep" or "Deliberate" Practice is the key idea.

"The Talent Code" is probably the most complete with both coverage of Deep Practice and various Master Coaching strategies (as well as "ignition"). "Bounce" may be the best read and has more info (so read both), and there is extra specific information on designing training strategies in "Talent is Overrated".

This is important stuff -- remember you heard if from me first (and if you didn't then why didn't you TELL ME?)

--
Herb

[WayneFlint]

Very interesting herb im going to look those books up, a very interesting subject speed, so whats the principles behind the ''deep'' or ''deliberate'' practice? whats your conclusion having read the books? cmon herb enlighten us im very interested to hear what you think having read the books. im a big believer in feel, like scrap says people can react better/quicker to feel, failing having the experience to spot somthing even the most inexperienced people will have a much quicker reaction to somthing if you can get feel involved.

a good example would be when i used to work the doors in clubs, i always used to notice that the reaction of the doormen i worked with wasnt quite so good in some situations where as a boxer myself i would have been on the back foot waiting to choose a reaction, often this doorman was not able to read the situation like i felt i could. as soon as i saw a movement that my experience could help determine as a strike in the same situation im more used to reacting to a punch because im more firmiliar with spotting the initial movements that are made to build up the momentum for a strike so i would know to react sharpish through experience of using my eyes to recognize the developing strike.
similair situation same doorman i noticed he had a hold of this lads arms just infront of his torso at the wrists, this guy totally relaxed and drunk (not displaying usual bodylanguage before attacking someone lol) suddenly tried to punch then headbut the guy (was very sloppy didnt turn the punch over lol joking) i was working with and in this situation i noticed his reactions to the movements where much quicker maybe not the better choice of reactions but the overall speed of his reaction was much, much better than when he relied on his eyes to process all the information around him while being able to spot any trouble he might find himself in. when scrap says that the eyes are what fucks everything up. i believe this is what this subject is maybe about herb? maybe its more of getting used to using our eyes as they seem to be a bit weak compared to feel in terms of reaction speed and compensating through experience to get the best from our eyes, so its like practicing digging a hole with a big folk if you get me? a shovel would be much better but if a folk is all you have at certain times you better get good at digging with it.

The way i see it when you break down what people refer to as speed it usually involves 3 or more different kinds of speed, boxing for example there is speed of perception, seeing somthing and noticing it quickley, then next comes the reaction to the perception the speed involved in this stage is to do with selecting the best suited reaction to the situation what you have percieved, then finally comes the physical speed which is what scraps stretches are all about, like you would service a sports car regularly to maintain optimal performance your body is no different, a weak spot or malfunction anywhere will have a snowball effect on the performance of the system as a whole, creating more problems further down the line throughout the whole system if left untreated, the result is consistent injuries due to imbalances.

I remember watching a very interesting documentary about sight and somthing called blind sight, everybody has it even blind people can still have what science refers to as 'blind sight' the best example of this to give is when driving along and maybe not paying quite as much attention as you should, we all do it, we sort of switch to auto pilot to rest our eyes, say we are in the middle of a discussion while i am driving and im deep in conversation not paying full attention to the road, somthing happens on the road that suddenly snaps my attention back to the road and away from the disscusion lets say a child chasing a ball quite close to the road. it is blind sight that told me there was a developing hazard rather than the fact that my eyes/concentration were on the road carefully scanning whats going on, its a survival thing that all creatures use no matter how different their sight to ours its what helps a fly navigate/avoid objects at high speed the fly gets more FPS (frames per second) compared to us but there is a trade off in detail for the extra FPS, add to this great workload of information to process a predator trying to catch the fly say like a frog, at these fps detail is lost so its not usual eyesight which helps the fly avoid being caught, its blind sight. when the eyes are too inefficient to process all information this is the backup system, im going to stop here because ill just go on and on, interesting thread to say the least

[Scrap]

Interestingly, talking to football coaches this month on Genius in the young as regards being born with the talent. It seems its developed by circumstance i found it interesting.

[WayneFlint]

I saw a documentary on the brain and what makes personality. it seemed to be supporting the same idea scrap, every situation and circumstance youve ever been in determines everything about you from how you think to your personality and your dress sense, very interesting documentary i watched it a few times.

[bchristian620]

with regards to the video, would you advocate a jab using the elbow or one from the shoulder? it seems like he is saying the 'from the elbow' jab is a straighter shot with no telepgraph.

[Scrap]

Sorry, what i was saying and didnt explain, I got a terrible habit of assuming the obvious. The direction of the punch, The jab in this case, what moves most is the elbow. What directs it is the shoulder and back muscles. If they are not working as they should, it causes the elbow to lift, youre giving signals of intent. If the shoulders are working as they should this shouldnt happen,thats why i put those stretches up, it stops that happening

[bchristian620]

I think I gotcha Mr. Scrap. The elbow, shoulder and back working in concert with the elbow pointed down through most of the movement with little or no lateral lift (flare) of the elbow.

I didnt realize how bad my technique was until I did that jab against a wall exercise you pointed out in another thread. Quite an eye opener!