One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

**No Contest** · 10-30-2010 01:29 AM

Macklin is decent but I dont think he's a World beater, tbh he doesnt deserve that shot yet. I would think he should fight a higher ranked european at least before getting a Williams shot. I kind of doubt he thinks he will really get the fight. Look at the guys hes been fighting, of course he thinks he can handle it after fighting those guys. If he beats a Sturm or Sylvester, then he will be in good shape for any fight at middle he wants.

**Gandalf** · 10-30-2010 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by bkolz

Originally Posted by miles

Fightnews now saying Martinez is 'on target'.

That might well be the case, but he looks a bit flabby in that picture with the punch bag to me. But still a good four weeks away from fight time. A lot of bloaters look like that a good month away from getting in the ring. I am going to assume it won't be a massive problem, but I honestly never expected it from someone like Martinez who always seems like 'Mr reflexes, movement and speed'. You expect it more of the grafters like Hatton and Duran rather than the flashers.

how many duran fights have you seen?

Quite a few. Why?

**Gandalf** · 10-30-2010 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Originally Posted by miles

Fightnews now saying Martinez is 'on target'.

Boxing - Martinez on target for Williams

That might well be the case, but he looks a bit flabby in that picture with the punch bag to me. But still a good four weeks away from fight time. A lot of bloaters look like that a good month away from getting in the ring. I am going to assume it won't be a massive problem, but I honestly never expected it from someone like Martinez who always seems like 'Mr reflexes, movement and speed'. You expect it more of the grafters like Hatton and Duran rather than the flashers.

Duran was not a 'grafter', he's one of the most technically skilled fighters in the sport's history. He only gets this rep because of his fights with Leonard, where he looked to brawl because his opponent was quicker and more technically adept from range. Seriously, Hatton was more skilled than he gets credit for, but the term grafter is fair for him. Duran it really isn't, the guy was a technical marvel who doesn't get the cred for it because he liked fights to be rough. You can do both.

Anyway back onto the point, I read today on ESPN that Martinez is now at 169. Considering the fight is scheduled to be at 158 & is 3 weeks away, that is definitely doable without doing the body in. If anything I think there maybe a danger where Williams overtrains or his body is coming in as if he's fighting as a LMW rather than a MW, which could see him in a lot of trouble. As for him being overrated, meh, I think he's one of those guys who get underrated by those who aren't fans & well overrated by those who love him. This whole ducking thing is a pile of shite, if he built himself up a following enough to at least sell out where he's fighting then he might have a point. He's got the style, but he lacks the personality big-time.

Duran was not a Leonard or a Mayweather. He was what I term a 'grafter'. A fighter that works hard and tries to work you into submission. That is not to say that he wasn't with considerable skills. No elite fighter is without skills and indeed Duran is one of the greats. It is a style that I actually have a preference for, so I don't know why people are getting so precious about it.

Should I call him a 'skilled grafter' instead? My main point was fighters that burn weight tend to be those that rely less on raw athleticism, and I regard Duran as a durable hard worker in a different vein to some of the silkier fighters on boxing history. It is no slur and I stand by what I said.

**generalbulldog** · 10-30-2010 05:16 PM

After reading the last few posts. I just have 1 question. WTF is a "grafter?"

**Gandalf** · 10-30-2010 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

After reading the last few posts. I just have 1 question. WTF is a "grafter?"

I regard it as a pressure fighter with a significant output. Not a negative term really, being the labour intensive kind of guy that I am. Duran was not a pretty fighter, and he liked to attack to the body. Maybe I've added a new word to the lexicon, I don't know, but he was a "grafter". Pressure fighter, sure, but also resiliant.

**JonnyFolds** · 11-01-2010 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

After reading the last few posts. I just have 1 question. WTF is a "grafter?"

I regard it as a pressure fighter with a significant output. Not a negative term really, being the labour intensive kind of guy that I am. Duran was not a pretty fighter, and he liked to attack to the body. Maybe I've added a new word to the lexicon, I don't know, but he was a "grafter". Pressure fighter, sure, but also resiliant.

Ya I have never heard of grafter. And I have never doubted your knowledge, miles. But the way that word rolls off my tongues makes it sound like a negative term.

I think Duran used his size advantage in his LW rally for all those years, but he was miniscule to Iran Barkley, Tommy Hearns, Hagler, et al.

If grafter means he used a sizable advantage to gain offensive guise, then yes, by all means he was quite a grafter. And Hatton, Gatti, Froch, (Barry) Mcguigan, would all be grafters too right?

Martinez is going to beat the shit our of PWill.
I think I'll take a sig bet on this one. My first fight I'd be willing to do this for.