Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...

[erics44]

Basically, it's not that big of a deal. It could very easily have been achieved by any athlete who increases his nutritonal intake. The other thing people talk about is the fact that he's carried his power up. But even when you look at that, he actually is pretty much the same. Cotto and Hatton were both hurt/knocked out because they were moving forwards at the pointof impact. Diaz was ko'd after taking an absolute pummelling. Oscar and Clottey weren't really hurt because they were constantly on the back foot, both in survival mode. Pacquiao's power comes from his speed and accuracy. Mayweather has never been a knockout puncher but he ko'd Hatton because Hatton walked onto the shot. If Margarito walks onto a few, he might find himself on his arse. That's just how getting punched in the face works.

i promise you pal, its not easily achieved

like i said in the pac v marg thread, to gain anything more than a couple to 5 maybe pounds of lean muscle a year is a fantastic achievement, anymore is almost unheard of

bodybuilders generally dont build lean muscle after they are 23 years old ish

they bulk and cut, so they gain more than a couple of pounds of muscle in a year, andything upto 10 or 15 pounds but they put on masses of fat as well during a bulk, then they diet and cut the fat

you check out pics of famous bodybuilders off season

No offense Eric. But this is like a de javu thing for me. I think where heading down the road where everybody think they're steroid experts, but they're actually not.

im not saying i'm an expert man, but im heavily into the scene, i read a lot about it and talk to a lot of people about gaining muscle on a daily basis

so no offence to you but i can garentee that my judgement on this is a lot more accurate than what ono said

and remember my reply was just to onos - "its not that big a deal, it could very easily be done"

im not saying 10 - 15lb of natural lean muscle in 6 months is imposible but it is pretty astionishing

join www.uk-muscle.com and ask around on there, i'm telling you the response will be pretty unanimous, that to get that sort of return even in perfect conditions unless you are some sort of freak you would need roids

remember, im not even saying that is what manny has done, it was just a reply to onos statement

p.s. if manny was in his teens or very early 20s then it would be more believeable