Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...

[erics44]

http://www.usada.org/sample-collecti...ponsibilities/

Read this page including the 'Note' at the bottom. That is the final word and there is nothing left to say on it.

wasnt it an additional test outside the rules that floyd was asking for tho?

[Hornfinger]

http://www.usada.org/sample-collecti...ponsibilities/

Read this page including the 'Note' at the bottom. That is the final word and there is nothing left to say on it.

wasnt it an additional test outside the rules that floyd was asking for tho?

Not that I'm aware of.

It was to have USADA conduct there random proceedures in the build up to a fight. Same as Floyd did with Mosley.

[erics44]

http://www.usada.org/sample-collecti...ponsibilities/

Read this page including the 'Note' at the bottom. That is the final word and there is nothing left to say on it.

wasnt it an additional test outside the rules that floyd was asking for tho?

Not that I'm aware of.

It was to have USADA conduct there random proceedures in the build up to a fight. Same as Floyd did with Mosley.

well if thats the case then i cant see an argument that suggests he is innocent

[ono]

I don't think people realise how big a part ego's play in all this. If Pacquiao concedes any ground in this and goes along with Mayweather's requests, he automatically concedes that Mayweather is the man. Furthermore Pacquiao has complied with the various testing policies of the sport's governing bodies.

With the weight gain, what he has achieved isn't really that bizarre. Here are his Fight Night weights over the last 3-4 years...

Nov 06





Oct 07





March 08





June 08





December 08





May 09






November 09 (was reported 148lb come fight night)





March 10 (was reported 149lb come fight night)







Basically, it's not that big of a deal. It could very easily have been achieved by any athlete who increases his nutritonal intake. The other thing people talk about is the fact that he's carried his power up. But even when you look at that, he actually is pretty much the same. Cotto and Hatton were both hurt/knocked out because they were moving forwards at the pointof impact. Diaz was ko'd after taking an absolute pummelling. Oscar and Clottey weren't really hurt because they were constantly on the back foot, both in survival mode. Pacquiao's power comes from his speed and accuracy. Mayweather has never been a knockout puncher but he ko'd Hatton because Hatton walked onto the shot. If Margarito walks onto a few, he might find himself on his arse. That's just how getting punched in the face works.

[ross]

Good fighters who arent taking anyything illegal just dont stay so ripped!

Look at Duran as he moved up or any other fighter in history, they always lose something. Well not really lose, just that as a powerfull puncher moves up in weight, his muscles mass hasnt really changed and so his punches havent really got any more powerfull. Sometimes the fighter can be more relaxed because they havent had to drain down to weight and there punches can be stronger but Manny has kept everything. Speed, strength but the most dubious thing about his move up in weight is his body composition! Ask any bodybuilder how hard it is to grow muscle naturally, let alone an athlete that has to balance size and speed!

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Good fighters who arent taking anyything illegal just dont stay so ripped!

Look at Duran as he moved up or any other fighter in history, they always lose something. Well not really lose, just that as a powerfull puncher moves up in weight, his muscles mass hasnt really changed and so his punches havent really got any more powerfull. Sometimes the fighter can be more relaxed because they havent had to drain down to weight and there punches can be stronger but Manny has kept everything. Speed, strength but the most dubious thing about his move up in weight is his body composition! Ask any bodybuilder how hard it is to grow muscle naturally, let alone an athlete that has to balance size and speed!

In terms of speed, power and physical strength... Floyd, Oscar or Roy Jones Jnr. have all been remarkable in their careers.

It's different these days because I think fighters are boiling down more in weight than they used to. I guess move up with better efficiency too..?

I think Hopkins is a good example of how you can do it both ways. He managed to stay at 160 with relative ease due to his absolute commitment a particular lifestyle that ensured he was trim and healthy. Then when he wanted to move up to 175 he again committed himself to becoming a bigger fighter with added muscle mass but retaining all of his previous attributes.
He, Roy, Oscar & Floyd all look just as fast and powerful as what they did divisions before.

[ross]

In terms of speed, power and physical strength... Floyd, Oscar or Roy Jones Jnr. have all been remarkable in their careers.

Well apart from Jones, the other 2 did look softer as they moved up and Jones was the one who was caught using steroids.

[:::PSL:::]

Basically, it's not that big of a deal. It could very easily have been achieved by any athlete who increases his nutritonal intake. The other thing people talk about is the fact that he's carried his power up. But even when you look at that, he actually is pretty much the same. Cotto and Hatton were both hurt/knocked out because they were moving forwards at the pointof impact. Diaz was ko'd after taking an absolute pummelling. Oscar and Clottey weren't really hurt because they were constantly on the back foot, both in survival mode. Pacquiao's power comes from his speed and accuracy. Mayweather has never been a knockout puncher but he ko'd Hatton because Hatton walked onto the shot. If Margarito walks onto a few, he might find himself on his arse. That's just how getting punched in the face works.

Yep. Just like they say "the punches you don't see coming hurts more". And Pac was just hitting those guys with punches that they don't see coming.

[erics44]

Basically, it's not that big of a deal. It could very easily have been achieved by any athlete who increases his nutritonal intake. The other thing people talk about is the fact that he's carried his power up. But even when you look at that, he actually is pretty much the same. Cotto and Hatton were both hurt/knocked out because they were moving forwards at the pointof impact. Diaz was ko'd after taking an absolute pummelling. Oscar and Clottey weren't really hurt because they were constantly on the back foot, both in survival mode. Pacquiao's power comes from his speed and accuracy. Mayweather has never been a knockout puncher but he ko'd Hatton because Hatton walked onto the shot. If Margarito walks onto a few, he might find himself on his arse. That's just how getting punched in the face works.

i promise you pal, its not easily achieved

like i said in the pac v marg thread, to gain anything more than a couple to 5 maybe pounds of lean muscle a year is a fantastic achievement, anymore is almost unheard of

bodybuilders generally dont build lean muscle after they are 23 years old ish

they bulk and cut, so they gain more than a couple of pounds of muscle in a year, andything upto 10 or 15 pounds but they put on masses of fat as well during a bulk, then they diet and cut the fat

you check out pics of famous bodybuilders off season

[:::PSL:::]

Basically, it's not that big of a deal. It could very easily have been achieved by any athlete who increases his nutritonal intake. The other thing people talk about is the fact that he's carried his power up. But even when you look at that, he actually is pretty much the same. Cotto and Hatton were both hurt/knocked out because they were moving forwards at the pointof impact. Diaz was ko'd after taking an absolute pummelling. Oscar and Clottey weren't really hurt because they were constantly on the back foot, both in survival mode. Pacquiao's power comes from his speed and accuracy. Mayweather has never been a knockout puncher but he ko'd Hatton because Hatton walked onto the shot. If Margarito walks onto a few, he might find himself on his arse. That's just how getting punched in the face works.

i promise you pal, its not easily achieved

like i said in the pac v marg thread, to gain anything more than a couple to 5 maybe pounds of lean muscle a year is a fantastic achievement, anymore is almost unheard of

bodybuilders generally dont build lean muscle after they are 23 years old ish

they bulk and cut, so they gain more than a couple of pounds of muscle in a year, andything upto 10 or 15 pounds but they put on masses of fat as well during a bulk, then they diet and cut the fat

you check out pics of famous bodybuilders off season

No offense Eric. But this is like a de javu thing for me. I think where heading down the road where everybody think they're steroid experts, but they're actually not.

[erics44]

Basically, it's not that big of a deal. It could very easily have been achieved by any athlete who increases his nutritonal intake. The other thing people talk about is the fact that he's carried his power up. But even when you look at that, he actually is pretty much the same. Cotto and Hatton were both hurt/knocked out because they were moving forwards at the pointof impact. Diaz was ko'd after taking an absolute pummelling. Oscar and Clottey weren't really hurt because they were constantly on the back foot, both in survival mode. Pacquiao's power comes from his speed and accuracy. Mayweather has never been a knockout puncher but he ko'd Hatton because Hatton walked onto the shot. If Margarito walks onto a few, he might find himself on his arse. That's just how getting punched in the face works.

i promise you pal, its not easily achieved

like i said in the pac v marg thread, to gain anything more than a couple to 5 maybe pounds of lean muscle a year is a fantastic achievement, anymore is almost unheard of

bodybuilders generally dont build lean muscle after they are 23 years old ish

they bulk and cut, so they gain more than a couple of pounds of muscle in a year, andything upto 10 or 15 pounds but they put on masses of fat as well during a bulk, then they diet and cut the fat

you check out pics of famous bodybuilders off season

No offense Eric. But this is like a de javu thing for me. I think where heading down the road where everybody think they're steroid experts, but they're actually not.

im not saying i'm an expert man, but im heavily into the scene, i read a lot about it and talk to a lot of people about gaining muscle on a daily basis

so no offence to you but i can garentee that my judgement on this is a lot more accurate than what ono said

and remember my reply was just to onos - "its not that big a deal, it could very easily be done"

im not saying 10 - 15lb of natural lean muscle in 6 months is imposible but it is pretty astionishing

join www.uk-muscle.com and ask around on there, i'm telling you the response will be pretty unanimous, that to get that sort of return even in perfect conditions unless you are some sort of freak you would need roids

remember, im not even saying that is what manny has done, it was just a reply to onos statement

p.s. if manny was in his teens or very early 20s then it would be more believeable

[erics44]

june to december 2008 he gained 8lbs and was still very lean

its a fantastic achievement, for bodybuilding standards

i could be wrong, maybe some of the weight was water or something, i dont know

[generalbulldog]

A-Side Meth homie. I mean those orientals have been using something called A-side meth, that's the drug.

You guys know why the Flips managed to walk through bullets against the US military? That's your answer, A-side meth. It makes you walk through bullets on the battlefield of war and take punches in the boxing ring.

[ono]

Basically, it's not that big of a deal. It could very easily have been achieved by any athlete who increases his nutritonal intake. The other thing people talk about is the fact that he's carried his power up. But even when you look at that, he actually is pretty much the same. Cotto and Hatton were both hurt/knocked out because they were moving forwards at the pointof impact. Diaz was ko'd after taking an absolute pummelling. Oscar and Clottey weren't really hurt because they were constantly on the back foot, both in survival mode. Pacquiao's power comes from his speed and accuracy. Mayweather has never been a knockout puncher but he ko'd Hatton because Hatton walked onto the shot. If Margarito walks onto a few, he might find himself on his arse. That's just how getting punched in the face works.

i promise you pal, its not easily achieved

like i said in the pac v marg thread, to gain anything more than a couple to 5 maybe pounds of lean muscle a year is a fantastic achievement, anymore is almost unheard of

bodybuilders generally dont build lean muscle after they are 23 years old ish

they bulk and cut, so they gain more than a couple of pounds of muscle in a year, andything upto 10 or 15 pounds but they put on masses of fat as well during a bulk, then they diet and cut the fat

you check out pics of famous bodybuilders off season

Mate, once again you're talking absolute bollocks.

The comment i have highlighted is so stupid, it deserves a special mention. Testosterone levels reach a peak around the mid 20's. After that, they start to slowly decline. That is why it is harder for a person to add muscle mass as they get older. However, to say people don't build lean muscle once they're about 23 is absolute tosh.

You don't need to promise me anything. I suggest you take the time to read through a Sport's Nutrition textbook, or read the carbohydrate section of the Sport's Nutrition Bible, which is authored by me, in the training section of this very site.

Getting back to Pacquiao. His natural weight, or his weigh-in weight has increased by around 15lbs, in 4 years. Once again, that isn't unrealistic for an athlete who is consuming 8,000 cals per day. It's also worth mentioning that the higher he goes up in weight, the less he has to deplete himself before the weigh-in. So a Pacquiao weighing at 129 isn't really a true reflection of his actual weight because he will have more han likely have been dehydrated, wheras for a fight at Welterweight, he can actually afford to be hydrated and he can afford for his muscle glycogen stores to be close to being fully loaded. This in itself will account for around 6 or 7lbs.

Like i said, he's done nothing that's even remotely out of the ordinary here.

But please, carry on with your cliched nonsense

[erics44]

Basically, it's not that big of a deal. It could very easily have been achieved by any athlete who increases his nutritonal intake. The other thing people talk about is the fact that he's carried his power up. But even when you look at that, he actually is pretty much the same. Cotto and Hatton were both hurt/knocked out because they were moving forwards at the pointof impact. Diaz was ko'd after taking an absolute pummelling. Oscar and Clottey weren't really hurt because they were constantly on the back foot, both in survival mode. Pacquiao's power comes from his speed and accuracy. Mayweather has never been a knockout puncher but he ko'd Hatton because Hatton walked onto the shot. If Margarito walks onto a few, he might find himself on his arse. That's just how getting punched in the face works.

i promise you pal, its not easily achieved

like i said in the pac v marg thread, to gain anything more than a couple to 5 maybe pounds of lean muscle a year is a fantastic achievement, anymore is almost unheard of

bodybuilders generally dont build lean muscle after they are 23 years old ish

they bulk and cut, so they gain more than a couple of pounds of muscle in a year, andything upto 10 or 15 pounds but they put on masses of fat as well during a bulk, then they diet and cut the fat

you check out pics of famous bodybuilders off season

Mate, once again you're talking absolute bollocks.

The comment i have highlighted is so stupid, it deserves a special mention. Testosterone levels reach a peak around the mid 20's. After that, they start to slowly decline. That is why it is harder for a person to add muscle mass as they get older. However, to say people don't build lean muscle once they're about 23 is absolute tosh.

You don't need to promise me anything. I suggest you take the time to read through a Sport's Nutrition textbook, or read the carbohydrate section of the Sport's Nutrition Bible, which is authored by me, in the training section of this very site.

Getting back to Pacquiao. His natural weight, or his weigh-in weight has increased by around 15lbs, in 4 years. Once again, that isn't unrealistic for an athlete who is consuming 8,000 cals per day. It's also worth mentioning that the higher he goes up in weight, the less he has to deplete himself before the weigh-in. So a Pacquiao weighing at 129 isn't really a true reflection of his actual weight because he will have more han likely have been dehydrated, wheras for a fight at Welterweight, he can actually afford to be hydrated and he can afford for his muscle glycogen stores to be close to being fully loaded. This in itself will account for around 6 or 7lbs.

Like i said, he's done nothing that's even remotely out of the ordinary here.

But please, carry on with your cliched nonsense

dude, people do build lean muscle but not at a very fast rate and the bit of my text you have highlighted is absolutely true

even those on steriods dont build lean muscle for most of the year, they bulk like nattys because thats the best way to add muscle

man, i am right sorry

and back to pac, 15lbs in 4 years isnt unrealistic, 8000 calories a day is pretty far fetched especially without putting on any fat

i am eating 3500 - 4500 (at a push) at the minute, 5-6 meals a day all clean high calories meals, i am 16 stone (a lot bigger than pac), that is including the best meal replacement/weight gain suppliments - it very very difficult to keep it going, i have to have a day off a week where i eat around 2500 cals, some days i am almost making myself sick

I train hard, i am gaining a lot of fat as well as muscle (hopefully)

what you are suggesting pac has done, is pretty high in the sky