Now some time has passed.. Your final vote on Pac's refusal...

[JazMerkin]

Bodybuilding & boxing have very different needs so putting on 'bulk' for either is a very different proposition. For example, most bodybuilders tend to burn all the fat that they can for events, whereas as a boxer you want to have some fat to fall back on because otherwise you become too weak. What Manny Pacquiao has done physically is different, but that alone is not enough to judge him. The only thing in that regard that sticks out a bit for me is that his power appeared to plateau a bit at 130, yet since moving up it's that much more explosive. Even with the lack of drain, it's still odd that he looks a more explosive puncher (not power, guys like Hearns & Robinson have carried the power up, but they've looked to lose that explosiveness with it). But, to me, that is no indicator of guilt.

What does make me doubt him is the tests. It's the fact he wanted notifications of when the tests would be. PSL's point about the PBF-Mosley testing stopping 18 days before is neither here nor there. The point was the fighters knew they could be tested & were probably expecting it. The thing that really makes me doubt it is what I hear from people in the sport themselves. What guys even very close to Pac say privately is very different from what they say publically.

But, they'll make the fight next year & this will all be forgotten.

N.B. Jones is not a good analogy when trying to proclaim Pacquiao's innocence. Most in or around the sport believe that he had some interesting 'supplements' when moving up the Light-Heavy.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

N.B. Jones is not a good analogy when trying to proclaim Pacquiao's innocence. Most in or around the sport believe that he had some interesting 'supplements' when moving up the Light-Heavy.

Light Heavy or Heavy?

[JazMerkin]

N.B. Jones is not a good analogy when trying to proclaim Pacquiao's innocence. Most in or around the sport believe that he had some interesting 'supplements' when moving up the Light-Heavy.

Light Heavy or Heavy?

Both

I've heard that he started taking things after the McCallum & first Griffin fights. Again, this might just be the kind of gossip you hear about fighters, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me. I do think the time he got caught, it probably was to do with the ripped fuel. No way would Jones be that dumb to take something that's going to get him caught. Then again he did carry on boxing after getting battered by Tarver/Johnson/Calzaghe & Green.

[erics44]

Bodybuilding & boxing have very different needs so putting on 'bulk' for either is a very different proposition. For example, most bodybuilders tend to burn all the fat that they can for events, whereas as a boxer you want to have some fat to fall back on because otherwise you become too weak. What Manny Pacquiao has done physically is different, but that alone is not enough to judge him. The only thing in that regard that sticks out a bit for me is that his power appeared to plateau a bit at 130, yet since moving up it's that much more explosive. Even with the lack of drain, it's still odd that he looks a more explosive puncher (not power, guys like Hearns & Robinson have carried the power up, but they've looked to lose that explosiveness with it). But, to me, that is no indicator of guilt.

What does make me doubt him is the tests. It's the fact he wanted notifications of when the tests would be. PSL's point about the PBF-Mosley testing stopping 18 days before is neither here nor there. The point was the fighters knew they could be tested & were probably expecting it. The thing that really makes me doubt it is what I hear from people in the sport themselves. What guys even very close to Pac say privately is very different from what they say publically.

But, they'll make the fight next year & this will all be forgotten.

N.B. Jones is not a good analogy when trying to proclaim Pacquiao's innocence. Most in or around the sport believe that he had some interesting 'supplements' when moving up the Light-Heavy.

you are right dude, bodybuilding and boxing are different with different goals

but bodybuilders and boxers are both human and have the same physiology or anatomy or what ever you want to call it

the argument is that pac has put on a lot of lean muscle (im not saying he has or he hasnt, thats just what we are discussing) so if a bodybuilder (who is dedicated to putting on muscle) cant achieve that without roids why should boxer be able to?

[JazMerkin]

Bodybuilding & boxing have very different needs so putting on 'bulk' for either is a very different proposition. For example, most bodybuilders tend to burn all the fat that they can for events, whereas as a boxer you want to have some fat to fall back on because otherwise you become too weak. What Manny Pacquiao has done physically is different, but that alone is not enough to judge him. The only thing in that regard that sticks out a bit for me is that his power appeared to plateau a bit at 130, yet since moving up it's that much more explosive. Even with the lack of drain, it's still odd that he looks a more explosive puncher (not power, guys like Hearns & Robinson have carried the power up, but they've looked to lose that explosiveness with it). But, to me, that is no indicator of guilt.

What does make me doubt him is the tests. It's the fact he wanted notifications of when the tests would be. PSL's point about the PBF-Mosley testing stopping 18 days before is neither here nor there. The point was the fighters knew they could be tested & were probably expecting it. The thing that really makes me doubt it is what I hear from people in the sport themselves. What guys even very close to Pac say privately is very different from what they say publically.

But, they'll make the fight next year & this will all be forgotten.

N.B. Jones is not a good analogy when trying to proclaim Pacquiao's innocence. Most in or around the sport believe that he had some interesting 'supplements' when moving up the Light-Heavy.

you are right dude, bodybuilding and boxing are different with different goals

but bodybuilders and boxers are both human and have the same physiology or anatomy or what ever you want to call it

the argument is that pac has put on a lot of lean muscle (im not saying he has or he hasnt, thats just what we are discussing) so if a bodybuilder (who is dedicated to putting on muscle) cant achieve that without roids why should boxer be able to?

Because if Pac is on anything it's far more likely to be EPO than HGH, as his goals are different. The obsession with his body & muscle mass is a really a bit of a red herring in this debate as far as I'm concerned.

[erics44]

Bodybuilding & boxing have very different needs so putting on 'bulk' for either is a very different proposition. For example, most bodybuilders tend to burn all the fat that they can for events, whereas as a boxer you want to have some fat to fall back on because otherwise you become too weak. What Manny Pacquiao has done physically is different, but that alone is not enough to judge him. The only thing in that regard that sticks out a bit for me is that his power appeared to plateau a bit at 130, yet since moving up it's that much more explosive. Even with the lack of drain, it's still odd that he looks a more explosive puncher (not power, guys like Hearns & Robinson have carried the power up, but they've looked to lose that explosiveness with it). But, to me, that is no indicator of guilt.

What does make me doubt him is the tests. It's the fact he wanted notifications of when the tests would be. PSL's point about the PBF-Mosley testing stopping 18 days before is neither here nor there. The point was the fighters knew they could be tested & were probably expecting it. The thing that really makes me doubt it is what I hear from people in the sport themselves. What guys even very close to Pac say privately is very different from what they say publically.

But, they'll make the fight next year & this will all be forgotten.

N.B. Jones is not a good analogy when trying to proclaim Pacquiao's innocence. Most in or around the sport believe that he had some interesting 'supplements' when moving up the Light-Heavy.

you are right dude, bodybuilding and boxing are different with different goals

but bodybuilders and boxers are both human and have the same physiology or anatomy or what ever you want to call it

the argument is that pac has put on a lot of lean muscle (im not saying he has or he hasnt, thats just what we are discussing) so if a bodybuilder (who is dedicated to putting on muscle) cant achieve that without roids why should boxer be able to?

Because if Pac is on anything it's far more likely to be EPO than HGH, as his goals are different. The obsession with his body & muscle mass is a really a bit of a red herring in this debate as far as I'm concerned.

maybe maybe not, and i dunno how much muscle he has actually put on

maybe if we had similar pics of him when he fought marquez the last time maybe to when he fought cotto we could maybe see a difference