Manny Pacquiao sometimes we forget just how good he really is

[InTheNeutralCorner]

rain,

do you actually think morales was in his prime before the first pacquiao fight? look, pacquiao may not have been in his "talent" prime but he sure was in his physical prime, and that you cannot deny. morales, was coming off a loss with barrera. and what about de la hoya? do you think de la hoya was in his physical prime when he fought pacquiao? the man still had needles marks when he got into the ring for trying to get rehydrated. he was a walking zombie and you know it. come on, sometimes drinking that kool-aid can be detrimental to your health, sonny.

i will say this, barrera was still in his prime when he fought pacquiao. it's just that barrera had zero answers for pacquiao high work rate.

as far as marquez is concerned, he, i believe he was in his prime when he fought pacquiao twice and it showed. i think as well as you do that marquez beat pacquiao in their rematch.

what other mexican fighters are you talking about? for me, only morales wasn't in his prime anymore vs. pacquiao.

as far as pacquiao vs. other fighters, david diaz was in his prime and he got destroyed too. ricky hatton physically was in his prime but i think the mayweather jr. loss took his soul from him. he just wasn't the same after that. against cotto, the same could be said about him. after his destruction against margarito, he was in his physical prime but was f'ed up in his head. and let's not even discuss the shameful display of cowardice of joshua clottey. the man had all the physical tools to give pacquiao a much tougher fight but he just tanked it and got an easy retirement payday.

so again, where are all these mexican fighters you talking about?

Just a question: When do you think Pacquiao reached his prime and when did it start going down, or do you still consider him in his prime at this time?

[zhubin]

The talk of Pac being one of the all time greats was started after his recent string of extremely over hyped wins. Pac is a great fighter...no question. He is exciting and has heart. But the last GREAT PRIME fighter he fought was Marquez. Juan had a draw in their first fight....though you can say he should have won. In their second fight Marquez AT THE VERY LEAST should have gotten a draw...though in the eyes of many he won that fight as well. He fought Morales 3 times...losing the first...and beating a shot fighter in the next 2 fights. That is the truth. Morales was nowhere near the fighter he once was in the their last 2 fights. I will simply give Pac credit for finishing off a fighter on the downturn of his career. The Barrera fights are tricky. No question Marco was distracted in their first fight. Would it have made a difference if he wasn't...maybe not. In their second fight...Barrera was gun shy. Some will argue that Barrera at that point was no longer the fighter he once was. Either way...Pac took care of business. I judge Manny by those fights. Those 3 Mexican fighters where all hall of fame fighters who where NOT at some point against Pac WAY past their prime. Manny deserves mad respect, win or lose, to have fought them. BUT...the hype that Manny is currently the greatest fighter in the world is based on his recent string of fights against cherry picked fighters who where all shot or had big issues. Hatton was always a one dimensional brawler. He was already showing that he was past it and was exposed by Mayweather. His incredible ballooning up and down in weight between fights certainly didn't help. Oscar was well past prime and incredibly weight drained against Pac. Roach is no dummy. He not only has picked fighters with big question marks recently...but he insures that they come in even weaker by fighting a few pounds lighter. Then there was Cotto. Cotto physically and mentally never recovered from the beating (most likely illegally) from Tony. And Clottey...the most punch shy fighter in the business...basically Pac fought a moving punching bag. And now you have Margerito. A disgraced fighter who has not stepped in the ring for well over a year. Now if Pac fought Mayweather and won...i will be the first to say he deserves all the accolades he has gotten recently. Until then...i ain't drinking the kool aid.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

The talk of Pac being one of the all time greats was started after his recent string of extremely over hyped wins. Pac is a great fighter...no question. He is exciting and has heart. But the last GREAT PRIME fighter he fought was Marquez. Juan had a draw in their first fight....though you can say he should have won. In their second fight Marquez AT THE VERY LEAST should have gotten a draw...though in the eyes of many he won that fight as well. He fought Morales 3 times...losing the first...and beating a shot fighter in the next 2 fights. That is the truth. Morales was nowhere near the fighter he once was in the their last 2 fights. I will simply give Pac credit for finishing off a fighter on the downturn of his career. The Barrera fights are tricky. No question Marco was distracted in their first fight. Would it have made a difference if he wasn't...maybe not. In their second fight...Barrera was gun shy. Some will argue that Barrera at that point was no longer the fighter he once was. Either way...Pac took care of business. I judge Manny by those fights. Those 3 Mexican fighters where all hall of fame fighters who where NOT at some point against Pac WAY past their prime. Manny deserves mad respect, win or lose, to have fought them. BUT...the hype that Manny is currently the greatest fighter in the world is based on his recent string of fights against cherry picked fighters who where all shot or had big issues. Hatton was always a one dimensional brawler. He was already showing that he was past it and was exposed by Mayweather. His incredible ballooning up and down in weight between fights certainly didn't help. Oscar was well past prime and incredibly weight drained against Pac. Roach is no dummy. He not only has picked fighters with big question marks recently...but he insures that they come in even weaker by fighting a few pounds lighter. Then there was Cotto. Cotto physically and mentally never recovered from the beating (most likely illegally) from Tony. And Clottey...the most punch shy fighter in the business...basically Pac fought a moving punching bag. And now you have Margerito. A disgraced fighter who has not stepped in the ring for well over a year. Now if Pac fought Mayweather and won...i will be the first to say he deserves all the accolades he has gotten recently. Until then...i ain't drinking the kool aid.

Same question to you: When do you think Pacquiao reached his prime and when do you think it started going down, or is he still in his prime?

[Hornfinger]

Gonna watch Pac vs morales 1 and also pac vs marquez just to remind myself......

[brucelee]

Gonna watch Pac vs morales 1 and also pac vs marquez just to remind myself......

Be sure to consider the blood coming from the eyelid of Pacquaio due to a headbutt and see how he was fighting with his heart.

Compare it with Pac vs Morales 2 when he was almost at his best ( no blood flowing to his eyes) and you would see the difference when Pac is not distracted and when he is distracted.

You will also see how great he is considering that many would call him one dimensional at that time. Just watch the two fights without bias and you will understand what I'm trying to say.

[Hornfinger]

Gonna watch Pac vs morales 1 and also pac vs marquez just to remind myself......

Be sure to consider the blood coming from the eyelid of Pacquaio due to a headbutt and see how he was fighting with his heart.

Compare it with Pac vs Morales 2 when he was almost at his best ( no blood flowing to his eyes) and you would see the difference when Pac is not distracted and when he is distracted.

You will also see how great he is considering that many would call him one dimensional at that time. Just watch the two fights without bias and you will understand what I'm trying to say.

I call it pre and post roids and also pre and post morales being shot.

[milmascaras1]

they say that every great fighter on the downside has one great fight left. morales comes to mind when he beat pacquiao the first time. morales looked on the downside when he lost to barrera. he definitely looked shot against raheem and against pacquiao II & III and david diaz. i think what did him in was his street fighter mentality in which he needlessly engaged in many toe to toe wars. he was what he was, a fighter and entertainer first. maybe if he would have taken a different approach like boxing instead of having so many wars, he wouldn't have become as good as he became. another thing is that he wasn't very disciplined with his weight between fights. he killed himself to make weight numerous times and it showed in the latter part of his career.

[Pavlik]

Gonna watch Pac vs morales 1 and also pac vs marquez just to remind myself......

Don't forget the Morales rematch and rubber match to that. To top it off consider Marquez fighting PAC right now.

[zhubin]

Ali is the most over hyped fighter in history?!!!!!!! A comment by someone who doesn't know jack about boxing. As far as when exactly Pac's prime was....it's just as important to ask when the prime of the fighters he has faced where. AGAIN...the best fighter he has faced who was in his prime was Marquez...and Pac had a draw and a controversial narrow victory against him. He faced Morales and Barrera at their primes and past their primes. I give him props and credit for facing those fighters. But his recent victories, the ones that many have said have made him an all time great, have been greatly over hyped.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Ali is the most over hyped fighter in history?!!!!!!! A comment by someone who doesn't know jack about boxing. As far as when exactly Pac's prime was....it's just as important to ask when the prime of the fighters he has faced where. AGAIN...the best fighter he has faced who was in his prime was Marquez...and Pac had a draw and a controversial narrow victory against him. He faced Morales and Barrera at their primes and past their primes. I give him props and credit for facing those fighters. But his recent victories, the ones that many have said have made him an all time great, have been greatly over hyped.

There is no need to ask when the prime of the fighters Manny has faced where, I have already read it a thousand times in this forum that most of his opponents are past their prime. I just don't remember reading any mention of when Pacquiao's prime is.

You still haven't answered the question. When do you think Manny reached his prime and when did it start going down, or is he still in his prime?