PULL not PUSH your punches

[HerbM]

Im not quite sure what the video is about? not having a dig im just interested and dont want to miss out on the point.

I have delayed answering this post since it is long and thoughtful, and it deserves a similar answer, but you have asked me similar questions in the past.

We've discussed the same topic several times, and obviously I have either failed to explain it clearly enough or more likely you just don't agree with my explanations (which is fine and not a 'dig'.)

...but it just looks like hes hitting the guy with a lazy left hook/swing which later he straightens out into more of a hook/straight for a strike or 2? seems like when hes loading it he leaves himself open due to the swinging, relaxed type approach/positioning hes taken to load the shot

It's a DEMO of a way to throw a relaxed punch not a way to fight. You can trow the same way with any STYLE or TYPE of punch once you learn to relax.

I warned that person requesting the videos would NOT BE SATISFIED by seeing a good demo.

Why? It will either look like this to demonstrate the QUALITY of the punch or it will look like a "regular punch" and no one but the guy getting hit will ever know the difference (unless perhaps they already know the difference and monitor the boxers' affect and effect on both boxers.)

ive sort of been under the impression that most people instinctivley know how to punch letting a bag or object stop the punch and its this quality what is actually harder to train out of a new fighter then to train into one, to get the more prefered snappy harder to counter boxing style, controlled shot.

What is the VALUE of a "snappy" punch? If it is to avoid leaving the punch hanging out there then this is no issue since you can transfer into the target and still 'snap' (pull) back the punch rapidly.

If it some idea of popping the SURFACE of the target by stopping the punch before it penetrates INTO the target then some of the energy is being wasted -- or worse, is requiring ADDITIONAL EXTRA energy to overcome that momentum.

This is simple physics -- the energy is either:

• Absorbed by the target
• Absorbed and countered by the boxers own muscles, tendons, and joints
• Redirected in some other direction (like an ice skater turns and maintains speed)
• Or a combination

Where do you want the energy to go?

As long as you can maintain good balance, defense, and form (stance etc) putting it INTO THE TARGET does the most damage and requires both the least expenditure of (additional) energy to "stop the punch".

In fact, it is ALL put into the target will actually have the LEAST effect on disturbing balance and stance.

The trick is to learn to let go of the hands and arm ballistically but still be able to retrieve the punch rapidly when it is complete.

When is it complete? When it misses you must use your own power (or joints) to stop it OR you must redirect it in an arc or other path to use that energy elsewhere.

in my opinion this is what makes a punch like this dangerous in combat due to its lack of control if your up against a skilled counter puncher if the attack misses your going to pay with balance or by taking unnecessary counter shots. Weve all heared the saying ''you couldnt hit a person like that'' and i believe this is what that saying is about, not the fact that you cant set up a fighter to plant the feet for a solid shot like you can on a bag because youcan, it means that if you try hitting someone like this at some point your going to miss and pay for it dearly.

"A punch like this dangerous" -- You mean a DEMO of a relaxed punch or do you mean a real relaxed punch that is externally indistinguishable from a perfect JAB, CROSS, HOOK, etc?

These types of punches almost never (should never) disturb balance or form -- they don't commit body weight nor core power by default -- you don't need that with these, but you can add it on at the end when the punch striking the target is assured.

Even then you only commit core and balanced weight, never beyond your ability to maintain that form and balance.

Even in the demos no one is moving off balance or with bad form (i.e., posture.)

Are there any videos of this guy using systema techniques in the ring or otherwise?

I don't know of any videos where the fight is conventional AND you can SEE the mechanics - part of the point of these punches is to disguise their nature. To send out relaxed punches that look like anything else but hit much harder and without using extra energy.

But if you think it through, you will realize the physics of it, and recognize the only person who will know is the one who it getting hit a LOT harder.

id prefer to see how functional the techniques can be in a fight scenario rather than in demonstrations. i cant help but ask the question if it is effective then why dont we see more of it in MMA.

Oleg Taktarov won UFC #6 (back when there were much fewer rules) and he is a decent Systema guy, having appeared on several commercial instruction videos with the main North American Systema guy in North America, Vladimir Vasiliev.

You won't see the spiral style (for misses) in boxing because of the rules which don't allow you to hit with anything but the front of the glove (e.g., no backhands or elbows) and which don't allow you to kick, trip, butt or otherwise use your whole body, your hands have to do the hitting AND they have to protect you because you are not allowed to use that other stuff to disrupt the counters.

You can't see the boxing punches which are transferring energy completely as LOOKING any different from an ordinary punch.

Imagine you had two punches each with 100 units of energy (Newtons/second if you must).

Would you rather be hit by a punch which transferred some percentage (say, 90%, or 70%) of that force (90 units or 70 units) into your head?

Or by a punch that transferred the entire 100 units into your head?

Also recognize that the second punch that transfers all of the energy will be traveling faster and will have a HIGHER IMPULSE (energy and shock capability) value.

Higher impulses are more likely to break and crush things because they give less time for the energy to be absorbed and dissipated (such as by your head beginning to move out of the way or by the elasticity of your cranium.)

It's hard to make such physical subtleties clear, especially if the physics arguments are unfamiliar to you, so if this is insufficient then we would just have to try to help you find an (advanced) Systema guy who could hit you and teach you to do it.

Then you could try it and feel it for yourself. I hate giving such an answer, but the physics are quite clear and indisputable so this is merely an alternative for those who don't like math and such.

When you combine HARDER and FASTER punches that use LESS ENERGY and LESS OXYGEN to create the benefits are quite surprising.

Every coach tells boxers to RELAX -- so what are they supposed to be RELAXING?

The muscles that slow down their punches is what. The muscles that remove energy and use unnecessary 02 and energy molecules are what you need to relax.

--
Herb