De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

[miron_lang]

I like Dan Rafael's solution

Manny defend his WBO Welterweight title againts Marquez 1st half of 2011. We all know Manny will come in at 144 JMM at 142... Figthtnight Pac@148 JMM@146 ( Very likely )

Mosley fights Berto in the undercard. If Mosley wins his stock rises by beating a young undefeated Champion. If Berto wins his stock rises, he'll add the biggest name in his CV that will surely add to his popularity as Mosley been with Oscar and Floyd.

Pac fights the winner (Assuming he wins againts JMM) 2nd half of 2011.


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Its sounds like a fantasy

[Gandalf]

I like Dan Rafael's solution

Manny defend his WBO Welterweight title againts Marquez 1st half of 2011. We all know Manny will come in at 144 JMM at 142... Figthtnight Pac@148 JMM@146 ( Very likely )

Mosley fights Berto in the undercard. If Mosley wins his stock rises by beating a young undefeated Champion. If Berto wins his stock rises, he'll add the biggest name in his CV that will surely add to his popularity as Mosley been with Oscar and Floyd.

Pac fights the winner (Assuming he wins againts JMM) 2nd half of 2011.


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Its sounds like a fantasy

It is insane to ask Marquez to jump two weight divisions at 37. If Pacquiao gets the win then he also gets no credit. Mayweather got no credit for doing this to Marquez and neither should Manny. The only way to make it half way fair is to have Pac come down to 140 and ask Marquez to make the leap to 140. Otherwise we are heading into Pac/DLH territory where most of us thought it was a mismatch and Marquez at this stage in his career, as good as he is, is unlikely to make that transition, more so with us all having seen the Mayweather fight.

[generalbulldog]

I like Dan Rafael's solution

Manny defend his WBO Welterweight title againts Marquez 1st half of 2011. We all know Manny will come in at 144 JMM at 142... Figthtnight Pac@148 JMM@146 ( Very likely )

Mosley fights Berto in the undercard. If Mosley wins his stock rises by beating a young undefeated Champion. If Berto wins his stock rises, he'll add the biggest name in his CV that will surely add to his popularity as Mosley been with Oscar and Floyd.

Pac fights the winner (Assuming he wins againts JMM) 2nd half of 2011.


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Its sounds like a fantasy

It is insane to ask Marquez to jump two weight divisions at 37. If Pacquiao gets the win then he also gets no credit. Mayweather got no credit for doing this to Marquez and neither should Manny. The only way to make it half way fair is to have Pac come down to 140 and ask Marquez to make the leap to 140. Otherwise we are heading into Pac/DLH territory where most of us thought it was a mismatch and Marquez at this stage in his career, as good as he is, is unlikely to make that transition, more so with us all having seen the Mayweather fight.

Marquez was 145 on fight night agaisnt Katsidis. Pac was 148 on fightnight against Margarito, that's why Emanuel Steward considers Pacquiao a blownup lightweight at this stage of his career, he just doesn't have to cut any weight at all. Marquez doesn't have to come in at the welterweight limit of 147, fighters aren't forced to come in at the limit. Marquez can come in at 139 or whatever he feels comfortable at and then rehydrate only a few pounds, instead of 10+ pounds when he had to cut the 135 pound limit.

JMM wants the fight so bad, then maybe he shouldn't have priced himself out earlier this year when the fight was offered and more than likely it would have been at 140 since Pacquiao was only 1 fight removed from fighting there. No one besides Floyd is going to get 50/50 money wise against Pacquiao and other demands. In business, war, and politics there is no such thing as fairness, only parties with leverage.

[miron_lang]

It is insane to ask Marquez to jump two weight divisions at 37. If Pacquiao gets the win then he also gets no credit. Mayweather got no credit for doing this to Marquez and neither should Manny. The only way to make it half way fair is to have Pac come down to 140 and ask Marquez to make the leap to 140. Otherwise we are heading into Pac/DLH territory where most of us thought it was a mismatch and Marquez at this stage in his career, as good as he is, is unlikely to make that transition, more so with us all having seen the Mayweather fight.

sounds fair. but you and i undestand that Juan and Manny are actually the same "size" Pac's attributes just enables him to be more effective at a higher weight.

but againts each other nobody is getting blown away.

Pac has WBO Welterweight title, It just logical and fair that he defend it right?

Legacy wise fighting at catchwegiht of 141 for the welterweight title is a sore in Pac's CV

how about a straight up welterweight fight because Pac doesnt even come close to 147 anyways? IF JMM thinks that coming in at 135 benefits him then do it. Pac came in at 144 for a 150 fight.

Size doesnt matter between these 2 Miles. And i cant really absorb your concern about JMM fighting at a heavier weight when JMM can come in at his best form anyways. same as pac even if its a lot lighter than the contracted weight.

[Gandalf]

It is insane to ask Marquez to jump two weight divisions at 37. If Pacquiao gets the win then he also gets no credit. Mayweather got no credit for doing this to Marquez and neither should Manny. The only way to make it half way fair is to have Pac come down to 140 and ask Marquez to make the leap to 140. Otherwise we are heading into Pac/DLH territory where most of us thought it was a mismatch and Marquez at this stage in his career, as good as he is, is unlikely to make that transition, more so with us all having seen the Mayweather fight.

sounds fair. but you and i undestand that Juan and Manny are actually the same "size" Pac's attributes just enables him to be more effective at a higher weight.

but againts each other nobody is getting blown away.

Pac has WBO Welterweight title, It just logical and fair that he defend it right?

Legacy wise fighting at catchwegiht of 141 for the welterweight title is a sore in Pac's CV

how about a straight up welterweight fight because Pac doesnt even come close to 147 anyways? IF JMM thinks that coming in at 135 benefits him then do it. Pac came in at 144 for a 150 fight.

Size doesnt matter between these 2 Miles. And i cant really absorb your concern about JMM fighting at a heavier weight when JMM can come in at his best form anyways. same as pac even if its a lot lighter than the contracted weight.

If size doesn't matter, then why not have Manny at the very least come down to 140? Even that might be a weight jump too far for a 37 year old Marquez. Manny has gone up in weight and somehow has carried this enormous power. He isn't just winning fights, but is breaking orbital bones. He didn't use to carry this kind of clout. He was heavy handed, but not like this. None of the opponents at smaller weights were getting busted up in this way. To be honest, I worry that Marquez might get get blown away if the fight is at WW. Manny has had time to grow into the weight and has stayed busy at the weight. Marquez has tried it once and looked poor, though it was against Mayweather.

Manny has all the advantages and having it at WW is simply not a fair fight. We criticised Mayweather for it and yet we are calling for Manny to be given a free pass for it? At the very least it should go to 140, so that Marquez is at least fighting somewhere near his own weight. Otherwise, it is a fight that I have a very hard time justifiying.

[miron_lang]

If size doesn't matter, then why not have Manny at the very least come down to 140?

Because Manny has a Welterweight title and his last fight was even at a higher weight plus he's not the one asking for the fight. he's the one approving

He isn't just winning fights, but is breaking orbital bones. He didn't use to carry this kind of clout. He was heavy handed, but not like this. None of the opponents at smaller weights were getting busted up in this way.

Mate as much as i respect you, You have to excuse me but you are totally wrong on this one.

he busting the bigger guys because they can absorb heavier blows. He's absolutely a Julian Jackson type of a puncher at the lower weights.

See : Chocviat, Sasakul , Lucero, Barotillo( Right hook) all kayoed with one shot

To be honest, I worry that Marquez might get get blown away if the fight is at WW. Manny has had time to grow into the weight and has stayed busy at the weight. Marquez has tried it once and looked poor, though it was against Mayweather.

Manny has all the advantages and having it at WW is simply not a fair fight. We criticised Mayweather for it and yet we are calling for Manny to be given a free pass for it? At the very least it should go to 140, so that Marquez is at least fighting somewhere near his own weight. Otherwise, it is a fight that I have a very hard time justifiying.

i think partially the opposite, I think Pac wins again but will struggle again. There's no way he blows him out. Im not joking when i say Manny is tailor made for Marquez.

JMM is the absolute counterpucher. he operates best when he's being rushed and being chased. that means more opportunities for him.

I also think he's an average fighter when facing a boxer who waits and doesnt initiate.

see Salido, John, Norwood, Floyd

[JazMerkin]

[
i think partially the opposite, I think Pac wins again but will struggle again. There's no way he blows him out. Im not joking when i say Manny is tailor made for Marquez.

JMM is the absolute counterpucher. he operates best when he's being rushed and being chased. that means more opportunities for him.

I also think he's an average fighter when facing a boxer who waits and doesnt initiate.

see Salido, John, Norwood, Floyd

That statement should be a banning offence.

John didn't beat him, you should not win in the pros if you box like that & in all honesty you'd struggle in the amateurs because at least half the shots wouldn't be counted as scoring. Norwood just ran & Salido was comfortably beaten. Only Floyd actually beat him out of those guys, the only other fighter who can claim that is Pacquiao, even if I think JMM won both fights narrowly.

[miron_lang]

[
i think partially the opposite, I think Pac wins again but will struggle again. There's no way he blows him out. Im not joking when i say Manny is tailor made for Marquez.

JMM is the absolute counterpucher. he operates best when he's being rushed and being chased. that means more opportunities for him.

I also think he's an average fighter when facing a boxer who waits and doesnt initiate.

see Salido, John, Norwood, Floyd

That statement should be a banning offence.

John didn't beat him, you should not win in the pros if you box like that & in all honesty you'd struggle in the amateurs because at least half the shots wouldn't be counted as scoring. Norwood just ran & Salido was comfortably beaten. Only Floyd actually beat him out of those guys, the only other fighter who can claim that is Pacquiao, even if I think JMM won both fights narrowly.

I retract that statement.

If you notice i didnt say any details about those fights. But he's not at all impressive in these fights. The point is a come forward fighter will make him look good.

[UKPH]

Yes thats true Pac already tested the WW while Marquez is not. I guess Marquez is willing to fight at 142-143 with Pacquiao which is a ww bout, while we know Pac weighs only at 144 in Margarito fight.

Imo Manny wants Floyd more then Marquez business wise, win or lose. If Floyd-Pac wouldnt do, Pac-Marquez could happen but sadly its reality it would be in Mannys term. If not it would be Berto/Shane, As far i remember he had 2-3 fights as he said since Margarito fight.