De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

[Hornfinger]

Yup and it's a simple answer.

YES OF COURSE IT AFFECTS HIS OPPONANTS. WHY ELSE WOULD HE MAKE THOSE DEMANDS?

[arcanum26]

Yup and it's a simple answer.

YES OF COURSE IT AFFECTS HIS OPPONANTS. WHY ELSE WOULD HE MAKE THOSE DEMANDS?

To even the playing field? If his opponents (cotto/margarito) thought they had a good chance of winning against manny at their respective catchweight fights then sign the contract, why would you blame it all on manny? It affects his opponents but you can't quantify it in absolute terms the way you can't say how much an advantage they would have against manny come fight night after they rehydrate themselves.

[Hornfinger]

Yup and it's a simple answer.

YES OF COURSE IT AFFECTS HIS OPPONANTS. WHY ELSE WOULD HE MAKE THOSE DEMANDS?

To even the playing field? If his opponents (cotto/margarito?) thought they had a good chance of winning against manny at their respective catchweight fights then sign the contract, why would you blame it all on manny? It affects his opponents but you can't quantify it in absolute terms the way you can't say how much an advantage they would have against manny come fight night after they rehydrate themselves.

Cotto, margarito and oscar, underestimated Pacquiao and overestimated how effective and capable they'd be getting down to that weight.

If pacquiao doesn't think it's an even playing feild to go up the weight catagories, you know what? DON'T GO UP TO THE FUCKING WEIGHT CLASS.

If you don't think it's fair for you to go up to 147 or 154. Don't fight a 147 or 154 guy! SIMPLE!

[arcanum26]

Yup and it's a simple answer.

YES OF COURSE IT AFFECTS HIS OPPONANTS. WHY ELSE WOULD HE MAKE THOSE DEMANDS?

To even the playing field? If his opponents (cotto/margarito?) thought they had good chance of winning against manny at their respective catchweight fights then sign the contract, why would you blame it all on manny? It affects his opponents but you can't quantify it in absolute terms the way you can't say how much an advantage they would have against manny come fight night after they rehydrate themselves.

Cotto, margarito and oscar, underestimated Pacquiao and overestimated how effective and capable they'd be getting down to that weight.

If pacquiao doesn't think it's an even playing feild to go up the weight catagories, you know what? DON'T GO UP TO THE FUCKING WEIGHT CLASS.

If you don't think it's fair for you to go up to 147 or 154. Don't fight a 147 or 154 guy! SIMPLE!

Why would you blame it on manny when it was cotto, margarito and oscar who had their assessments/estimates on their effectiveness wrong on the first place?

Also why are you so intent on blaming it all on manny when you didn't hear excuses from cotto/margarito about the catchweight matter after their losses? I know you'll say it's because of a big payday but I'm absolutely sure they thought they had a chance to win and were grateful for that chance. It's just that as you said they underestimated manny and overestimated their effectiveness. And that fault does not lie on manny.

[Hornfinger]

Yup and it's a simple answer.

YES OF COURSE IT AFFECTS HIS OPPONANTS. WHY ELSE WOULD HE MAKE THOSE DEMANDS?

To even the playing field? If his opponents (cotto/margarito?) thought they had a good chance of winning against manny at their respective catchweight fights then sign the contract, why would you blame it all on manny? It affects his opponents but you can't quantify it in absolute terms the way you can't say how much an advantage they would have against manny come fight night after they rehydrate themselves.

Cotto, margarito and oscar, underestimated Pacquiao and overestimated how effective and capable they'd be getting down to that weight.

If pacquiao doesn't think it's an even playing feild to go up the weight catagories, you know what? DON'T GO UP TO THE FUCKING WEIGHT CLASS.

If you don't think it's fair for you to go up to 147 or 154. Don't fight a 147 or 154 guy! SIMPLE!

Why would you blame it on manny when it was cotto, margarito and oscar who had their assessments/estimates on their effectiveness wrong on the first place?

Also why are you so intent on blaming it all on manny when you didn't hear a excuses from cotto/margarito about the catchweight matter after their losses? I know you'll say it's because of a big payday but I'm absolutely sure they thought they had a chance to win and were grateful for that chance. It's just that as you said they underestimated manny and overestimated their effectiveness. And that fault does not lie on manny.

Cuz manny put the deal on the table. Instead of challenge Oscar at 154 like mayweather did he said 'no it's gotta be 147.' Instead of challenge cotto at 147 like all of cotto's previous opponants have he said no it's gotta be 145 (even though he fought oscar and clottey at 147) Instead of fight Margarito at 154 which is the light middleweight limit that that title should be fought at. 154 the weight that margarito went up to fight daniel santos at.

Pacquiao and his demands. His opponants are daft for bowing to them.... But all they're thinking is pay day.

[Kev]

Yup and it's a simple answer.

YES OF COURSE IT AFFECTS HIS OPPONANTS. WHY ELSE WOULD HE MAKE THOSE DEMANDS?

To even the playing field? If his opponents (cotto/margarito?) thought they had a good chance of winning against manny at their respective catchweight fights then sign the contract, why would you blame it all on manny? It affects his opponents but you can't quantify it in absolute terms the way you can't say how much an advantage they would have against manny come fight night after they rehydrate themselves.

Cotto, margarito and oscar, underestimated Pacquiao and overestimated how effective and capable they'd be getting down to that weight.

If pacquiao doesn't think it's an even playing feild to go up the weight catagories, you know what? DON'T GO UP TO THE FUCKING WEIGHT CLASS.

If you don't think it's fair for you to go up to 147 or 154. Don't fight a 147 or 154 guy! SIMPLE!

Why would you blame it on manny when it was cotto, margarito and oscar who had their assessments/estimates on their effectiveness wrong on the first place?

Also why are you so intent on blaming it all on manny when you didn't hear a excuses from cotto/margarito about the catchweight matter after their losses? I know you'll say it's because of a big payday but I'm absolutely sure they thought they had a chance to win and were grateful for that chance. It's just that as you said they underestimated manny and overestimated their effectiveness. And that fault does not lie on manny.

Cuz manny put the deal on the table. Instead of challenge Oscar at 154 like mayweather did he said 'no it's gotta be 147.' Instead of challenge cotto at 147 like all of cotto's previous opponants have he said no it's gotta be 145 (even though he fought oscar and clottey at 147) Instead of fight Margarito at 154 which is the light middleweight limit that that title should be fought at. 154 the weight that margarito went up to fight daniel santos at.

Pacquiao and his demands. His opponants are daft for bowing to them.... But all they're thinking is pay day.

Manny was a superfeatherweight when they started negotioting this. Oscar was a junior middleweight. It's amazin how you are going back to retrospectively make it look like Manny was picking on poor Oscar.

In a way it's a huge backhanded compliment as to how good you think Manny must be.

[arcanum26]

Yup and it's a simple answer.

YES OF COURSE IT AFFECTS HIS OPPONANTS. WHY ELSE WOULD HE MAKE THOSE DEMANDS?

To even the playing field? If his opponents (cotto/margarito?) thought they had a good chance of winning against manny at their respective catchweight fights then sign the contract, why would you blame it all on manny? It affects his opponents but you can't quantify it in absolute terms the way you can't say how much an advantage they would have against manny come fight night after they rehydrate themselves.

Cotto, margarito and oscar, underestimated Pacquiao and overestimated how effective and capable they'd be getting down to that weight.

If pacquiao doesn't think it's an even playing feild to go up the weight catagories, you know what? DON'T GO UP TO THE FUCKING WEIGHT CLASS.

If you don't think it's fair for you to go up to 147 or 154. Don't fight a 147 or 154 guy! SIMPLE!

Why would you blame it on manny when it was cotto, margarito and oscar who had their assessments/estimates on their effectiveness wrong on the first place?

Also why are you so intent on blaming it all on manny when you didn't hear a excuses from cotto/margarito about the catchweight matter after their losses? I know you'll say it's because of a big payday but I'm absolutely sure they thought they had a chance to win and were grateful for that chance. It's just that as you said they underestimated manny and overestimated their effectiveness. And that fault does not lie on manny.

Cuz manny put the deal on the table. Instead of challenge Oscar at 154 like mayweather did he said 'no it's gotta be 147.' Instead of challenge cotto at 147 like all of cotto's previous opponants have he said no it's gotta be 145 (even though he fought oscar and clottey at 147) Instead of fight Margarito at 154 which is the light middleweight limit that that title should be fought at. 154 the weight that margarito went up to fight daniel santos at.

Pacquiao and his demands. His opponants are daft for bowing to them.... But all they're thinking is pay day.

It's hard to believe manny "forced" oscar to go to 147 while oscar held all the cards back then. As for cotto, do you honestly believe cotto drained himself to make 145 when just several months prior to that he went up against clottey at 146? The cotto/clottey fight was at 147 and he didn't even reach that limit. What makes you think he drained himself to go at 145? As for margarito, aside from his previous fight with Garcia, he's been fighting at the ww limit and he's been pretty much comfortable at that weight.

I think it all boils down to whether manny deserved the belts he got from cotto and margo. But in terms of the catchweight being an issue in the actual fight, who's to say it's why they lost? Didn't you just say they underestimated manny and overestimated their own potential? Hardly manny's fault. I see it as an equalizer to the weight advantage they had come fight night.

[Rantcatrat]

Yup and it's a simple answer.

YES OF COURSE IT AFFECTS HIS OPPONANTS. WHY ELSE WOULD HE MAKE THOSE DEMANDS?

To even the playing field? If his opponents (cotto/margarito?) thought they had a good chance of winning against manny at their respective catchweight fights then sign the contract, why would you blame it all on manny? It affects his opponents but you can't quantify it in absolute terms the way you can't say how much an advantage they would have against manny come fight night after they rehydrate themselves.

Cotto, margarito and oscar, underestimated Pacquiao and overestimated how effective and capable they'd be getting down to that weight.

If pacquiao doesn't think it's an even playing feild to go up the weight catagories, you know what? DON'T GO UP TO THE FUCKING WEIGHT CLASS.

If you don't think it's fair for you to go up to 147 or 154. Don't fight a 147 or 154 guy! SIMPLE!

Why would you blame it on manny when it was cotto, margarito and oscar who had their assessments/estimates on their effectiveness wrong on the first place?

Also why are you so intent on blaming it all on manny when you didn't hear a excuses from cotto/margarito about the catchweight matter after their losses? I know you'll say it's because of a big payday but I'm absolutely sure they thought they had a chance to win and were grateful for that chance. It's just that as you said they underestimated manny and overestimated their effectiveness. And that fault does not lie on manny.

Cuz manny put the deal on the table. Instead of challenge Oscar at 154 like mayweather did he said 'no it's gotta be 147.' Instead of challenge cotto at 147 like all of cotto's previous opponants have he said no it's gotta be 145 (even though he fought oscar and clottey at 147) Instead of fight Margarito at 154 which is the light middleweight limit that that title should be fought at. 154 the weight that margarito went up to fight daniel santos at.

Pacquiao and his demands. His opponants are daft for bowing to them.... But all they're thinking is pay day.

It's hard to believe manny "forced" oscar to go to 147 while oscar held all the cards back then. As for cotto, do you honestly believe cotto drained himself to make 145 when just several months prior to that he went up against clottey at 146? The cotto/clottey fight was at 147 and he didn't even reach that limit. What makes you think he drained himself to go at 145? As for margarito, aside from his previous fight with Garcia, he's been fighting at the ww limit and he's been pretty much comfortable at that weight.

I think it all boils down to whether manny deserved the belts he got from cotto and margo. But in terms of the catchweight being an issue in the actual fight, who's to say it's why they lost? Didn't you just say they underestimated manny and overestimated their own potential? Hardly manny's fault. I see it as an equalizer to the weight advantage they had come fight night.

Agreed.

[generalbulldog]

I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.

Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.

Oscar-Hopkins at 156? Hardly a moan

Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.

Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.

Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.

Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.

But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.

BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.

[Hornfinger]

I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.

Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.

Oscar-Hopkins at 156?

Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.

Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.

Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.

Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.

But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.

BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.

In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?

[Kev]

I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.

Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.

Oscar-Hopkins at 156?

Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.

Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.

Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.

Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.

But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.

BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.

In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?

I think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them I don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights I saw. You presumably disagree?

[Hornfinger]

I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.

Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.

Oscar-Hopkins at 156?

Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.

Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.

Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.

Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.

But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.

BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.

In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?

I think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them I don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights I saw. You presumably disagree?

My point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, I think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. that can't be said for the Pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up

You think the out come of Hagler vs Leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?

[Rantcatrat]

I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.

Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.

Oscar-Hopkins at 156?

Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.

Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.

Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.

Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.

Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.

But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.

BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.

In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?

When Williams made Martinez fight at 158, I personally brought up in threads, and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't recall you ever getting on Williams' case about it. Williams was the favorite going into that fight too if only by a hair. He made Martinez come down in weight because they thought Martinez was more effective at 160. The point was to fight him at a weight where he wasn't as effective.

Did you give Mayweather grief for signing to fight Marquez at 145 (at a catchweight) and then showing up weighing 147?