De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

[Kev]

Now I'm confused? What rules have I said he should be aloud to bend? I support the catchweights as legitimate fights for the reason I have given above. Seeing as some of the greatest fighters in history have been involved in catchweight fights, even the great Henry Armstrong who Manny's career most closely rivals I don't see the big deal.

They are an inevitable compromise when you have two fighters of different size trying to fight each other.

ok

the discussion we are having is not around who has bent what rules

the title of the thread is - Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

so the question could be - Are the demands pacquiao making on his opponents affecting they're performances on fight night?

another way of asking the question could be - By all means make a catchweight, but is it fair when a fighter with a bigger name in boxing is getting a bigger advantage from the catchweight?

Well I would answer no emphatically.

First up the Oscar fight. This wasn't Manny being the bad guy, it was Oscar! Oscar was the big star wanting to drag up the exciting Manny three weight divisions from superfeatherweight to beat him up at welterweight. Oscar had seen Sugar Shane comfortably move back down from 154 to 147 and figured it would be a nice easy way to earn shit loads of cash. And virtually everybody agreed with him. Manny was a huge underdog and any prefight complaints were aimed at Oscar for taking on such a little guy. Ok Oscar looked fucking awful on the night, but he had nobody else to blame. He himself was guilty of dragging down a much bigger man in B Hop from 160 to 156 to fight for his world title. And he got knocked out in this case also.


Second Cotto. Cotto represented the first time Manny was fighting a genuine welterweight, again a much bigger man and a real test for Manny. They agreed to a catchweight of 145 lbs, incidently the same limit that Marquez got Floyd to agree to, although he broke that contract by weighing 147 anyway. Cotto did not have to lose much extra weight at all. In fact he voluntarily had come in at 146 dead for his last fight against Clottey. So Cotto lost a single pound to fight Manny, that's it, one single pound. After this fight Manny felt established at 147 and thus fought Josh Clottey at the full 147 limit. This is the same Josh Clottey who brutalised the almost 6ft tall Diego Coralles remember. Coralles only moved up from lightweight. Manny from flyweight!!!!!!!


Finally Margarito. This isn't even an argument imo. Margarito was a career welterweight who weighed in at under 146 lbs for his fight against Sugar Shane. Here he weighed in over 4lbs heavier. Where was the hardship there? It wouldn't be suprising if Margarito is to come back down to 147 at some point if the fight he wants is there. Being weight drained had nothing to do with it. As I said many times, Manny just wanted a fairer fight, and didn't want Margarito to be able to weigh in excess of 170lbs on fight night. As it was, he weighed 'only' 165.

[Hornfinger]

Bilbo you are delusional. And I doubt you've ever had to make a weight and then do physical activity in your life.

Why would manny insist on these catch weights rather than fighting these guys at their optimum weight. It's a no brainer.

[erics44]

Now I'm confused? What rules have I said he should be aloud to bend? I support the catchweights as legitimate fights for the reason I have given above. Seeing as some of the greatest fighters in history have been involved in catchweight fights, even the great Henry Armstrong who Manny's career most closely rivals I don't see the big deal.

They are an inevitable compromise when you have two fighters of different size trying to fight each other.

ok

the discussion we are having is not around who has bent what rules

the title of the thread is - Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

so the question could be - Are the demands pacquiao making on his opponents affecting they're performances on fight night?

another way of asking the question could be - By all means make a catchweight, but is it fair when a fighter with a bigger name in boxing is getting a bigger advantage from the catchweight?

Well I would answer no emphatically.

First up the Oscar fight. This wasn't Manny being the bad guy, it was Oscar! Oscar was the big star wanting to drag up the exciting Manny three weight divisions from superfeatherweight to beat him up at welterweight. Oscar had seen Sugar Shane comfortably move back down from 154 to 147 and figured it would be a nice easy way to earn shit loads of cash. And virtually everybody agreed with him. Manny was a huge underdog and any prefight complaints were aimed at Oscar for taking on such a little guy. Ok Oscar looked fucking awful on the night, but he had nobody else to blame. He himself was guilty of dragging down a much bigger man in B Hop from 160 to 156 to fight for his world title. And he got knocked out in this case also.


Second Cotto. Cotto represented the first time Manny was fighting a genuine welterweight, again a much bigger man and a real test for Manny. They agreed to a catchweight of 145 lbs, incidently the same limit that Marquez got Floyd to agree to, although he broke that contract by weighing 147 anyway. Cotto did not have to lose much extra weight at all. In fact he voluntarily had come in at 146 dead for his last fight against Clottey. So Cotto lost a single pound to fight Manny, that's it, one single pound. After this fight Manny felt established at 147 and thus fought Josh Clottey at the full 147 limit. This is the same Josh Clottey who brutalised Diego Coralles remember. Coralles only moved up from lightweight. Manny from flyweight!!!!!!!


Finally Margarito. This isn't even an argument imo. Margarito was a career welterweight who weighed in at under 146 lbs for his fight against Sugar Shane. Here he weighed in over 4lbs heavier. Where was the hardship there? It wouldn't be suprising if Margarito is to come back down to 147 at some point if the fight he wants is there. Being weight drained had nothing to do with it. As I said many times, Manny just wanted a fairer fight, and didn't want Margarito to be able to weigh in excess of 170lbs on fight night. As it was, he weighed 'only' 165.

do you think that mannys welterweight and light middleweight titles are as legitamate as others who havent made any changes to the weight requirements?

[Hornfinger]

Now I'm confused? What rules have I said he should be aloud to bend? I support the catchweights as legitimate fights for the reason I have given above. Seeing as some of the greatest fighters in history have been involved in catchweight fights, even the great Henry Armstrong who Manny's career most closely rivals I don't see the big deal.

They are an inevitable compromise when you have two fighters of different size trying to fight each other.

ok

the discussion we are having is not around who has bent what rules

the title of the thread is - Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

so the question could be - Are the demands pacquiao making on his opponents affecting they're performances on fight night?

another way of asking the question could be - By all means make a catchweight, but is it fair when a fighter with a bigger name in boxing is getting a bigger advantage from the catchweight?

Well I would answer no emphatically.

First up the Oscar fight. This wasn't Manny being the bad guy, it was Oscar! Oscar was the big star wanting to drag up the exciting Manny three weight divisions from superfeatherweight to beat him up at welterweight. Oscar had seen Sugar Shane comfortably move back down from 154 to 147 and figured it would be a nice easy way to earn shit loads of cash. And virtually everybody agreed with him. Manny was a huge underdog and any prefight complaints were aimed at Oscar for taking on such a little guy. Ok Oscar looked fucking awful on the night, but he had nobody else to blame. He himself was guilty of dragging down a much bigger man in B Hop from 160 to 156 to fight for his world title. And he got knocked out in this case also.


Second Cotto. Cotto represented the first time Manny was fighting a genuine welterweight, again a much bigger man and a real test for Manny. They agreed to a catchweight of 145 lbs, incidently the same limit that Marquez got Floyd to agree to, although he broke that contract by weighing 147 anyway. Cotto did not have to lose much extra weight at all. In fact he voluntarily had come in at 146 dead for his last fight against Clottey. So Cotto lost a single pound to fight Manny, that's it, one single pound. After this fight Manny felt established at 147 and thus fought Josh Clottey at the full 147 limit. This is the same Josh Clottey who brutalised Diego Coralles remember. Coralles only moved up from lightweight. Manny from flyweight!!!!!!!


Finally Margarito. This isn't even an argument imo. Margarito was a career welterweight who weighed in at under 146 lbs for his fight against Sugar Shane. Here he weighed in over 4lbs heavier. Where was the hardship there? It wouldn't be suprising if Margarito is to come back down to 147 at some point if the fight he wants is there. Being weight drained had nothing to do with it. As I said many times, Manny just wanted a fairer fight, and didn't want Margarito to be able to weigh in excess of 170lbs on fight night. As it was, he weighed 'only' 165.

do you think that mannys welterweight and light middleweight titles are as legitamate as others who havent made any changes to the weight requirements?

Great question and the answer is manny shouldn't even have those titles. What next? winning the heavyweight title against a blown up flyweight in 153 pound catchweight fight?

[Kev]

Now I'm confused? What rules have I said he should be aloud to bend? I support the catchweights as legitimate fights for the reason I have given above. Seeing as some of the greatest fighters in history have been involved in catchweight fights, even the great Henry Armstrong who Manny's career most closely rivals I don't see the big deal.

They are an inevitable compromise when you have two fighters of different size trying to fight each other.

ok

the discussion we are having is not around who has bent what rules

the title of the thread is - Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

so the question could be - Are the demands pacquiao making on his opponents affecting they're performances on fight night?

another way of asking the question could be - By all means make a catchweight, but is it fair when a fighter with a bigger name in boxing is getting a bigger advantage from the catchweight?

Well I would answer no emphatically.

First up the Oscar fight. This wasn't Manny being the bad guy, it was Oscar! Oscar was the big star wanting to drag up the exciting Manny three weight divisions from superfeatherweight to beat him up at welterweight. Oscar had seen Sugar Shane comfortably move back down from 154 to 147 and figured it would be a nice easy way to earn shit loads of cash. And virtually everybody agreed with him. Manny was a huge underdog and any prefight complaints were aimed at Oscar for taking on such a little guy. Ok Oscar looked fucking awful on the night, but he had nobody else to blame. He himself was guilty of dragging down a much bigger man in B Hop from 160 to 156 to fight for his world title. And he got knocked out in this case also.


Second Cotto. Cotto represented the first time Manny was fighting a genuine welterweight, again a much bigger man and a real test for Manny. They agreed to a catchweight of 145 lbs, incidently the same limit that Marquez got Floyd to agree to, although he broke that contract by weighing 147 anyway. Cotto did not have to lose much extra weight at all. In fact he voluntarily had come in at 146 dead for his last fight against Clottey. So Cotto lost a single pound to fight Manny, that's it, one single pound. After this fight Manny felt established at 147 and thus fought Josh Clottey at the full 147 limit. This is the same Josh Clottey who brutalised Diego Coralles remember. Coralles only moved up from lightweight. Manny from flyweight!!!!!!!


Finally Margarito. This isn't even an argument imo. Margarito was a career welterweight who weighed in at under 146 lbs for his fight against Sugar Shane. Here he weighed in over 4lbs heavier. Where was the hardship there? It wouldn't be suprising if Margarito is to come back down to 147 at some point if the fight he wants is there. Being weight drained had nothing to do with it. As I said many times, Manny just wanted a fairer fight, and didn't want Margarito to be able to weigh in excess of 170lbs on fight night. As it was, he weighed 'only' 165.

do you think that mannys welterweight and light middleweight titles are as legitamate as others who havent made any changes to the weight requirements?

I don't personally care less about belts. Most of the belts are completely devalued and have a nobody as the title holder.

But do I think having Manny Pacquaio as a world champ at 154 is more credible than the Contender club fighter K9 Bundrage, who currently holds the IBF strap, or Jan Zevek that well known welterweight champ, then absolutely I do.

The other fighters may not have won their belts at a catchweight, but they oftentimes just picked them up out of a garbage bin or had to fight another journeyman to 'win' it. At least Manny is fighting legit, established, world class championship caliber fighters.

I'd always rather a guy like Manny is given a belt over the likes of Zavek, Bundrage, Drews, N'Dou, Valuev. Rees etc. Those guys being world champs is far more a knock to the sport than the most exciting and explosive fighter of our era having a strap despite his opponent conceding the right to weigh a 1lb more.