Brian Magee v Lucian Bute - March 19th

[skel1983]

Magee got knocked out cold by Froch at his worst, why is this even allowed.

He did but was in that fight and made Froch dig deep, Magee is leagues below Bute but with the fighters tied up in the super six Kesslers injury etc etc It is not the worst fight Magee is the European champ and is the mandatory fora world title on paper Magee is more worthy than Audley and Chisora for me.

[Rantcatrat]

He's a woefully deficient opponent, let's not get it twisted, and the sarcasm is deserved, but I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable opponent at 168.

Bilbo?

[Rantcatrat]

Bute's situation is much different than Donaire's. Donaire had a ton of people he could have been fighting. Bute literally has none.

[TheMacMagician]

NO

And Bute is ranked 1 by most at SM. Bute will get exposed when its time for the top.

[ono]

He's a woefully deficient opponent, let's not get it twisted, and the sarcasm is deserved, but I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable opponent at 168.

Bilbo?

Bilbo can't make 168. Fact.

[superheavyrhun]

He's a woefully deficient opponent, let's not get it twisted, and the sarcasm is deserved, but I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable opponent at 168.

Bilbo?

Bilbo can't make 168. Fact.

Damn it ono, I saw that post and was going to make the exact same joke. In reality though, Bilbo would need to have a rucksack full of physics textbooks and be carrying a labrador in his arms to try and make 168.

[Chrislfc17]

Haha!! Funny thread..

I agree with Armin though. Bute's kind of in a difficult position in that all the big names are injured or tied up with the Super Six. His resume wasn't any worse than most of the boxers going into the Super Six at the time. The tournament has just brought the best guys in the division together and their stock has risen because of it. Bute has been left out in the cold while all the other fighters take the glory. He really needs to be fighting the winner though because he won't have any excuses not too. I still think Froch, Ward, Kessler and Dirrell would take him.

[Kev]

He's a woefully deficient opponent, let's not get it twisted, and the sarcasm is deserved, but I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable opponent at 168.

Bilbo?

Well as one who is not opposed to catchweights I would have just moved up to say 171-72 and fought a half decent opponent around there. Diaconu, Cloud, Erdei etc.

Both Bute and Erdei have weighed in voluntarily at 173 in fights the past couple years that would have made for an interesting fight.

Not sure what the story is on Dimitri Sartisan, I know he hasn't fought in a few months. Is he available or injured or what?

Were I Bute, and were I super ambitious (although admittedly I'm not. I would have sat on my ass and took joke fights for cash too) I would have made sure I got it on with my fellow countryman Jean Pascal. I'd have made it at a catchweight of 172 and had both of our titles on the line. To me that's a great matchup and a good weight for both fighters seeing as Bute has weighed 172 before and Pascal sometimes usually weighs in under 175 anyway.

[No Contest]

If Brinkley can go 8 Magee can do 10 rounds easy. If we could just get Bute to wear a dress in the ring Magee might spark him out.

[armin]

He's a woefully deficient opponent, let's not get it twisted, and the sarcasm is deserved, but I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable opponent at 168.

Bilbo?

Well as one who is not opposed to catchweights I would have just moved up to say 171-72 and fought a half decent opponent around there. Diaconu, Cloud, Erdei etc.

Both Bute and Erdei have weighed in voluntarily at 173 in fights the past couple years that would have made for an interesting fight.

Not sure what the story is on Dimitri Sartisan, I know he hasn't fought in a few months. Is he available or injured or what?

Were I Bute, and were I super ambitious (although admittedly I'm not. I would have sat on my ass and took joke fights for cash too) I would have made sure I got it on with my fellow countryman Jean Pascal. I'd have made it at a catchweight of 172 and had both of our titles on the line. To me that's a great matchup and a good weight for both fighters seeing as Bute has weighed 172 before and Pascal sometimes usually weighs in under 175 anyway.

Not the best choice and sucks cause that makes 2 fights now that I'd rather not see.

Umm but not sure that sartison would be any better of a fight, kessler stopped him in 12 while leading on the cards by like ten points...

erdei or cloud wouldn't be bad, for diaconu meh wouldn't be able to hang with bute I don't think, looked just average in his last fight. He should get some flack for this fight but can't criticize him to much till some of the super six guys are free or back from injury. I think if makes a trend of this then yeah start the hate.

I don't think bute's resume prior to the super six is any worse than the guys that went into the super six. He's got bika, andrade x2, berrio whom he took the title from, zuniga and a few past title contenders or ex title holders, compare that to the fighters who entered the super six and really it's no worse other than kessler's and taylor's.

-Prior to froch entering he had pascal who wasn't that big of a name at that time, and a bunch of b level fighters fought exclusively in the uk. He was pretty much getting constant slack on here for having a huge mouth and not backing up shit.

-Andre Ward, pretty much unproven and no big names other than miranda.

-Dirrel didn't know jack about him prior really.

-AA fought exclusively in Germany, biggest wins were a ko and a sd over miranda.Also had a few decent european level/world contender fighters on resume.

-Kessler resume was better than bute's even prior to entering the tourney, and didn't exclusively fight at home.

-JT had by far and above the best resume of any of the fighters prior to entering the tourney.

Once again if bute continues fighting this type of competition once some of the tourney guys are free start the hate but till then hold your horses.

[ICB]

He's a woefully deficient opponent, let's not get it twisted, and the sarcasm is deserved, but I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable opponent at 168.

Bilbo?

Well as one who is not opposed to catchweights I would have just moved up to say 171-72 and fought a half decent opponent around there. Diaconu, Cloud, Erdei etc.

Both Bute and Erdei have weighed in voluntarily at 173 in fights the past couple years that would have made for an interesting fight.

Not sure what the story is on Dimitri Sartisan, I know he hasn't fought in a few months. Is he available or injured or what?

Were I Bute, and were I super ambitious (although admittedly I'm not. I would have sat on my ass and took joke fights for cash too) I would have made sure I got it on with my fellow countryman Jean Pascal. I'd have made it at a catchweight of 172 and had both of our titles on the line. To me that's a great matchup and a good weight for both fighters seeing as Bute has weighed 172 before and Pascal sometimes usually weighs in under 175 anyway.

Not the best choice and sucks cause that makes 2 fights now that I'd rather not see.

Umm but not sure that sartison would be any better of a fight, kessler stopped him in 12 while leading on the cards by like ten points...

erdei or cloud wouldn't be bad, for diaconu meh wouldn't be able to hang with bute I don't think, looked just average in his last fight. He should get some flack for this fight but can't criticize him to much till some of the super six guys are free or back from injury. I think if makes a trend of this then yeah start the hate.

I don't think bute's resume prior to the super six is any worse than the guys that went into the super six. He's got bika, andrade x2, berrio whom he took the title from, zuniga and a few past title contenders or ex title holders, compare that to the fighters who entered the super six and really it's no worse other than kessler's and taylor's.

-Prior to froch entering he had pascal who wasn't that big of a name at that time, and a bunch of b level fighters fought exclusively in the uk. He was pretty much getting constant slack on here for having a huge mouth and not backing up shit.

-Andre Ward, pretty much unproven and no big names other than miranda.

-Dirrel didn't know jack about him prior really.

-AA fought exclusively in Germany, biggest wins were a ko and a sd over miranda.Also had a few decent european level/world contender fighters on resume.

-Kessler resume was better than bute's even prior to entering the tourney, and didn't exclusively fight at home.

-JT had by far and above the best resume of any of the fighters prior to entering the tourney.

Once again if bute continues fighting this type of competition once some of the tourney guys are free start the hate but till then hold your horses.

Great post totally agree.

[Rantcatrat]

He's a woefully deficient opponent, let's not get it twisted, and the sarcasm is deserved, but I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable opponent at 168.

Bilbo?

Well as one who is not opposed to catchweights I would have just moved up to say 171-72 and fought a half decent opponent around there. Diaconu, Cloud, Erdei etc.

Both Bute and Erdei have weighed in voluntarily at 173 in fights the past couple years that would have made for an interesting fight.

Not sure what the story is on Dimitri Sartisan, I know he hasn't fought in a few months. Is he available or injured or what?

Were I Bute, and were I super ambitious (although admittedly I'm not. I would have sat on my ass and took joke fights for cash too) I would have made sure I got it on with my fellow countryman Jean Pascal. I'd have made it at a catchweight of 172 and had both of our titles on the line. To me that's a great matchup and a good weight for both fighters seeing as Bute has weighed 172 before and Pascal sometimes usually weighs in under 175 anyway.

Not the best choice and sucks cause that makes 2 fights now that I'd rather not see.

Umm but not sure that sartison would be any better of a fight, kessler stopped him in 12 while leading on the cards by like ten points...

erdei or cloud wouldn't be bad, for diaconu meh wouldn't be able to hang with bute I don't think, looked just average in his last fight. He should get some flack for this fight but can't criticize him to much till some of the super six guys are free or back from injury. I think if makes a trend of this then yeah start the hate.

I don't think bute's resume prior to the super six is any worse than the guys that went into the super six. He's got bika, andrade x2, berrio whom he took the title from, zuniga and a few past title contenders or ex title holders, compare that to the fighters who entered the super six and really it's no worse other than kessler's and taylor's.

-Prior to froch entering he had pascal who wasn't that big of a name at that time, and a bunch of b level fighters fought exclusively in the uk. He was pretty much getting constant slack on here for having a huge mouth and not backing up shit.

-Andre Ward, pretty much unproven and no big names other than miranda.

-Dirrel didn't know jack about him prior really.

-AA fought exclusively in Germany, biggest wins were a ko and a sd over miranda.Also had a few decent european level/world contender fighters on resume.

-Kessler resume was better than bute's even prior to entering the tourney, and didn't exclusively fight at home.

-JT had by far and above the best resume of any of the fighters prior to entering the tourney.

Once again if bute continues fighting this type of competition once some of the tourney guys are free start the hate but till then hold your horses.

agreed completely.

[JazMerkin]

He's a woefully deficient opponent, let's not get it twisted, and the sarcasm is deserved, but I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable opponent at 168.

Bilbo?

Well as one who is not opposed to catchweights I would have just moved up to say 171-72 and fought a half decent opponent around there. Diaconu, Cloud, Erdei etc.

Both Bute and Erdei have weighed in voluntarily at 173 in fights the past couple years that would have made for an interesting fight.

Not sure what the story is on Dimitri Sartisan, I know he hasn't fought in a few months. Is he available or injured or what?

Were I Bute, and were I super ambitious (although admittedly I'm not. I would have sat on my ass and took joke fights for cash too) I would have made sure I got it on with my fellow countryman Jean Pascal. I'd have made it at a catchweight of 172 and had both of our titles on the line. To me that's a great matchup and a good weight for both fighters seeing as Bute has weighed 172 before and Pascal sometimes usually weighs in under 175 anyway.

Not the best choice and sucks cause that makes 2 fights now that I'd rather not see.

Umm but not sure that sartison would be any better of a fight, kessler stopped him in 12 while leading on the cards by like ten points...

erdei or cloud wouldn't be bad, for diaconu meh wouldn't be able to hang with bute I don't think, looked just average in his last fight. He should get some flack for this fight but can't criticize him to much till some of the super six guys are free or back from injury. I think if makes a trend of this then yeah start the hate.

I don't think bute's resume prior to the super six is any worse than the guys that went into the super six. He's got bika, andrade x2, berrio whom he took the title from, zuniga and a few past title contenders or ex title holders, compare that to the fighters who entered the super six and really it's no worse other than kessler's and taylor's.

-Prior to froch entering he had pascal who wasn't that big of a name at that time, and a bunch of b level fighters fought exclusively in the uk. He was pretty much getting constant slack on here for having a huge mouth and not backing up shit.

-Andre Ward, pretty much unproven and no big names other than miranda.

-Dirrel didn't know jack about him prior really.

-AA fought exclusively in Germany, biggest wins were a ko and a sd over miranda.Also had a few decent european level/world contender fighters on resume.

-Kessler resume was better than bute's even prior to entering the tourney, and didn't exclusively fight at home.

-JT had by far and above the best resume of any of the fighters prior to entering the tourney.

Once again if bute continues fighting this type of competition once some of the tourney guys are free start the hate but till then hold your horses.

Ward was a prospect with 19 fights at the time, with Miranda being his best opponent. Bute's best opponent at the same time was probably one of Lolenga Mock or James Toney (the other one) who'd previously been a Middleweight.

Similarly Dirrell had only had 17 fights and was also a mere prospect, his best win being Victor Oganov, probably on a similar level to Bute's at that time.

Abraham had beat Miranda twice, Gevor & Raul Marquez before the tourney, but no one elite so imo his resume was a bit weaker than Bute's.

Kessler as you said much better. He had already taken Bute's best win at the time (Andrade I) & done it much more convincingly.

Froch had beaten both Pascal and Jermain Taylor. Pascal may not have been recognized as elite at the time but Taylor certainly was. Not to mention that one of the 'b level names' in the UK is who Bute is planning on fighting in his next fight, and no, Magee hasn't got any better.

Now I expect to be called a Bute-hater, but I do think he's very impressive & his first few fights as champ were just right. However, he had no urge to go anywhere near Pascal & he seems happy to keep taking on the Brinkleys & Magees of the world, so he's gonna catch shit for it.

[Rantcatrat]

He's a woefully deficient opponent, let's not get it twisted, and the sarcasm is deserved, but I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable opponent at 168.

Bilbo?

Well as one who is not opposed to catchweights I would have just moved up to say 171-72 and fought a half decent opponent around there. Diaconu, Cloud, Erdei etc.

Both Bute and Erdei have weighed in voluntarily at 173 in fights the past couple years that would have made for an interesting fight.

Not sure what the story is on Dimitri Sartisan, I know he hasn't fought in a few months. Is he available or injured or what?

Were I Bute, and were I super ambitious (although admittedly I'm not. I would have sat on my ass and took joke fights for cash too) I would have made sure I got it on with my fellow countryman Jean Pascal. I'd have made it at a catchweight of 172 and had both of our titles on the line. To me that's a great matchup and a good weight for both fighters seeing as Bute has weighed 172 before and Pascal sometimes usually weighs in under 175 anyway.

Not the best choice and sucks cause that makes 2 fights now that I'd rather not see.

Umm but not sure that sartison would be any better of a fight, kessler stopped him in 12 while leading on the cards by like ten points...

erdei or cloud wouldn't be bad, for diaconu meh wouldn't be able to hang with bute I don't think, looked just average in his last fight. He should get some flack for this fight but can't criticize him to much till some of the super six guys are free or back from injury. I think if makes a trend of this then yeah start the hate.

I don't think bute's resume prior to the super six is any worse than the guys that went into the super six. He's got bika, andrade x2, berrio whom he took the title from, zuniga and a few past title contenders or ex title holders, compare that to the fighters who entered the super six and really it's no worse other than kessler's and taylor's.

-Prior to froch entering he had pascal who wasn't that big of a name at that time, and a bunch of b level fighters fought exclusively in the uk. He was pretty much getting constant slack on here for having a huge mouth and not backing up shit.

-Andre Ward, pretty much unproven and no big names other than miranda.

-Dirrel didn't know jack about him prior really.

-AA fought exclusively in Germany, biggest wins were a ko and a sd over miranda.Also had a few decent european level/world contender fighters on resume.

-Kessler resume was better than bute's even prior to entering the tourney, and didn't exclusively fight at home.

-JT had by far and above the best resume of any of the fighters prior to entering the tourney.

Once again if bute continues fighting this type of competition once some of the tourney guys are free start the hate but till then hold your horses.

Ward was a prospect with 19 fights at the time, with Miranda being his best opponent. Bute's best opponent at the same time was probably one of Lolenga Mock or James Toney (the other one) who'd previously been a Middleweight.

Similarly Dirrell had only had 17 fights and was also a mere prospect, his best win being Victor Oganov, probably on a similar level to Bute's at that time.

Abraham had beat Miranda twice, Gevor & Raul Marquez before the tourney, but no one elite so imo his resume was a bit weaker than Bute's.

Kessler as you said much better. He had already taken Bute's best win at the time (Andrade I) & done it much more convincingly.

Froch had beaten both Pascal and Jermain Taylor. Pascal may not have been recognized as elite at the time but Taylor certainly was. Not to mention that one of the 'b level names' in the UK is who Bute is planning on fighting in his next fight, and no, Magee hasn't got any better.

Now I expect to be called a Bute-hater, but I do think he's very impressive & his first few fights as champ were just right. However, he had no urge to go anywhere near Pascal & he seems happy to keep taking on the Brinkleys & Magees of the world, so he's gonna catch shit for it.

Jaz, good post. Seems pretty balanced and I thought you were anti-Bute.

I would have said Bute's best opponents at the time of the tournament were Bika and Andrade (even in controversial fashion) and if I may add, he beat Bika more convincingly than Ward did, and he beat Miranda (after tournament began) more convincingly than Ward did.

Basically, at the time the tournament started, Bute had a better resume than Ward, Dirrell, or Abraham.

I don't really understand why he gets grief for not jumping up in weight. From what we know, its not like he's having trouble making weight. If Pascal had offered to come down to 168 and Bute opted out, well then, I agree with you.

Consider that Calzaghe was the best super middleweight of the last 20 years. How many years did Calzaghe fight against the Magee's of the world before he stepped up his level of competition? I don't think Calzaghe should have moved up in weight and neither should Bute.

Lastly, I disagree that he is content to fighting the Brinkley's and Magee's of the world. If that was the case, why would he have moved from HBO to Showtime. It's pretty obvious it's because he wants in on the Super Six contestents.

[Kev]

He's a woefully deficient opponent, let's not get it twisted, and the sarcasm is deserved, but I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable opponent at 168.

Bilbo?

Well as one who is not opposed to catchweights I would have just moved up to say 171-72 and fought a half decent opponent around there. Diaconu, Cloud, Erdei etc.

Both Bute and Erdei have weighed in voluntarily at 173 in fights the past couple years that would have made for an interesting fight.

Not sure what the story is on Dimitri Sartisan, I know he hasn't fought in a few months. Is he available or injured or what?

Were I Bute, and were I super ambitious (although admittedly I'm not. I would have sat on my ass and took joke fights for cash too) I would have made sure I got it on with my fellow countryman Jean Pascal. I'd have made it at a catchweight of 172 and had both of our titles on the line. To me that's a great matchup and a good weight for both fighters seeing as Bute has weighed 172 before and Pascal sometimes usually weighs in under 175 anyway.

Not the best choice and sucks cause that makes 2 fights now that I'd rather not see.

Umm but not sure that sartison would be any better of a fight, kessler stopped him in 12 while leading on the cards by like ten points...

erdei or cloud wouldn't be bad, for diaconu meh wouldn't be able to hang with bute I don't think, looked just average in his last fight. He should get some flack for this fight but can't criticize him to much till some of the super six guys are free or back from injury. I think if makes a trend of this then yeah start the hate.

I don't think bute's resume prior to the super six is any worse than the guys that went into the super six. He's got bika, andrade x2, berrio whom he took the title from, zuniga and a few past title contenders or ex title holders, compare that to the fighters who entered the super six and really it's no worse other than kessler's and taylor's.

-Prior to froch entering he had pascal who wasn't that big of a name at that time, and a bunch of b level fighters fought exclusively in the uk. He was pretty much getting constant slack on here for having a huge mouth and not backing up shit.

-Andre Ward, pretty much unproven and no big names other than miranda.

-Dirrel didn't know jack about him prior really.

-AA fought exclusively in Germany, biggest wins were a ko and a sd over miranda.Also had a few decent european level/world contender fighters on resume.

-Kessler resume was better than bute's even prior to entering the tourney, and didn't exclusively fight at home.

-JT had by far and above the best resume of any of the fighters prior to entering the tourney.

Once again if bute continues fighting this type of competition once some of the tourney guys are free start the hate but till then hold your horses.

Ward was a prospect with 19 fights at the time, with Miranda being his best opponent. Bute's best opponent at the same time was probably one of Lolenga Mock or James Toney (the other one) who'd previously been a Middleweight.

Similarly Dirrell had only had 17 fights and was also a mere prospect, his best win being Victor Oganov, probably on a similar level to Bute's at that time.

Abraham had beat Miranda twice, Gevor & Raul Marquez before the tourney, but no one elite so imo his resume was a bit weaker than Bute's.

Kessler as you said much better. He had already taken Bute's best win at the time (Andrade I) & done it much more convincingly.

Froch had beaten both Pascal and Jermain Taylor. Pascal may not have been recognized as elite at the time but Taylor certainly was. Not to mention that one of the 'b level names' in the UK is who Bute is planning on fighting in his next fight, and no, Magee hasn't got any better.

Now I expect to be called a Bute-hater, but I do think he's very impressive & his first few fights as champ were just right. However, he had no urge to go anywhere near Pascal & he seems happy to keep taking on the Brinkleys & Magees of the world, so he's gonna catch shit for it.

Jaz, good post. Seems pretty balanced and I thought you were anti-Bute.

I would have said Bute's best opponents at the time of the tournament were Bika and Andrade (even in controversial fashion) and if I may add, he beat Bika more convincingly than Ward did, and he beat Miranda (after tournament began) more convincingly than Ward did.

Basically, at the time the tournament started, Bute had a better resume than Ward, Dirrell, or Abraham.

I don't really understand why he gets grief for not jumping up in weight. From what we know, its not like he's having trouble making weight. If Pascal had offered to come down to 168 and Bute opted out, well then, I agree with you.

Consider that Calzaghe was the best super middleweight of the last 20 years. How many years did Calzaghe fight against the Magee's of the world before he stepped up his level of competition? I don't think Calzaghe should have moved up in weight and neither should Bute.

Lastly, I disagree that he is content to fighting the Brinkley's and Magee's of the world. If that was the case, why would he have moved from HBO to Showtime. It's pretty obvious it's because he wants in on the Super Six contestents.

I'll be honest. I'm not really a huge fan of weight classes, or at least the average boxing fan's slavish adherence to them.

There is no such thing as a 147, 168 or 175 lb man, they are all arbitary limits set to impose some structure on the sport. But nowadays they are just red tape that fans love to bind themselves up in.

Both Bute and Erdei have voluntarily weighed in at 172/73 in the past couple years so it's obviously as natural a weight for them as the fixed supermiddle and light heavyweight limits.

Pascal was at 168 not long ago so again 172/73 should be no discomfort at all.

I myself routinely go up and down in weight from 10st to about 10st 10lb depending on diet and inactivity. My weight changes by a pound or so a day every time I take a poo.

Yet in boxing, it seems that many fans believe a fighter can only fight efficiently if he weighs 168lbs on the nose, any less and he's weight drained, any more and he's above his natural fighting weight.

I find it a farce to be honest. There is no reason at all why guys like Bute, Pascal, Erdei, Pavlik, Froch, Hopkins etc cannot all fight each other at a weight that is healthy for all of them.

Fans seem to love beaurocracy in boxing and slavish adherence to rules that limit the best fights being made.

But if believing that fighting Jesse Brinkley at 168lbs (actually neither exactly weighed 168 anyway) somehow maintains the integrity of boxing than Bute fighting another world champion at 172/73 and makes you feel better then go for it I guess.

Personally I just want to see the best fighters fight the best fighters. Quality fights and the best matchups being made to me are what boxing is about, not upholding the purity of the weight class limits. These structures put in place to organise and enhance boxing, when they start to restrict it, then we should loosen our binds to the red tape a little.