Does Pacquiao deserve all the hate???

[Kev]

Tim Bradley is not available, unless you think boxrec are mistken
Timothy Bradley - Boxer


If it's not a big deal for fighters to move down a whole weight class why the drama when Cotto moves down a single pound, and Margarito moves UP half a division for fights with Pac?

Berto hasn't looked better than Mosley lately against comparable opposition. What wins has Berto had that were as impressive as Mosley's KO of Margarito. Has Berto even beaten anyone as good as Mayorga? I don't think so? He beat Collazo, but it was a hell of a struggle, Mosley breezed him, although of course the critics will immediately cry 'Broken hand! Broken hand!', just as they did for Clottey against Margarito, which as subsequent fights have demonstrated, not least against Pacquio, is just the way Clottey fights.

[miron_lang]

If it's not a big deal for fighters to move down a whole weight class why the drama when Cotto moves down a single pound, and Margarito moves UP half a division for fights with Pac?

Perfect logic and straight to the point Mr. Baggins. Miles is a bit off in this topic IMO.

He wants Pac to move down to face Marquez but he doesnt give full credit to Pac for asking Cotto to move down 1lb.

[Kev]

If it's not a big deal for fighters to move down a whole weight class why the drama when Cotto moves down a single pound, and Margarito moves UP half a division for fights with Pac?

Perfect logic and straight to the point Mr. Baggins. Miles is a bit off in this topic IMO.

He wants Pac to move down to face Marquez but he doesnt give full credit to Pac for asking Cotto to move down 1lb.

The ironic thing is that the haters of Manny actually rate him higher than his fans. They just take for granted that he can move up and down between about three weight classes and smash 'joke' opposition like Antonio Margarito and Shane Mosley.

The criticisms against him are amazing. I mean at welterweight he has beaten Oscar, Cotto, Clottey, Margo at 150 and is now fighting Shane Mosley.

When Floyd when up to welter he fought Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah coming off a loss to Carlos Baldomir, then Baldo himself in a fight where he danced around the ring for 12 rounds and refused to engage for a second. He then dragged up Hatton and Marquez to fight him (I give him full props for fighting Oscar at 154 however, to me that WAS a big deal considering how many divisions Floyd climbed to ultimately get that fight).

Manny basically immediately has fought all the guys Floyd dodged for years and has literally battered them around the ring, and some people can just gripe 'Oh but he made him lose a pound! This win means nothing! NOTHING!'.

Let's face it, if Miles was present to witness Jesus feed the 5000 with 5 loaves and 3 fish or whatever he would be like 'Cod? COD? This is just common cod and white bread! Why didn't he make us some nice sea bass and a nice French loaf?' Bah! Rubbish, call himself the Messiah!!

[fan johnny]

If it's not a big deal for fighters to move down a whole weight class why the drama when Cotto moves down a single pound, and Margarito moves UP half a division for fights with Pac?

Perfect logic and straight to the point Mr. Baggins. Miles is a bit off in this topic IMO.

He wants Pac to move down to face Marquez but he doesnt give full credit to Pac for asking Cotto to move down 1lb.

The ironic thing is that the haters of Manny actually rate him higher than his fans. They just take for granted that he can move up and down between about three weight classes and smash 'joke' opposition like Antonio Margarito and Shane Mosley.

The criticisms against him are amazing. I mean at welterweight he has beaten Oscar, Cotto, Clottey, Margo at 150 and is now fighting Shane Mosley.

When Floyd when up to welter he fought Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah coming off a loss to Carlos Baldomir, then Baldo himself in a fight where he danced around the ring for 12 rounds and refused to engage for a second. He then dragged up Hatton and Marquez to fight him (I give him full props for fighting Oscar at 154 however, to me that WAS a big deal considering how many divisions Floyd climbed to ultimately get that fight).

Manny basically immediately has fought all the guys Floyd dodged for years and has literally battered them around the ring, and some people can just gripe 'Oh but he made him lose a pound! This win means nothing! NOTHING!'.

Let's face it, if Miles was present to witness Jesus feed the 5000 with 5 loaves and 3 fish or whatever he would be like 'Cod? COD? This is just common cod and white bread! Why didn't he make us some nice sea bass and a nice French loaf?' Bah! Rubbish, call himself the Messiah!!

Hey, don't forget to criticize Pacquiao for not fight Sergio Martinez.

[Gandalf]

If it's not a big deal for fighters to move down a whole weight class why the drama when Cotto moves down a single pound, and Margarito moves UP half a division for fights with Pac?

Perfect logic and straight to the point Mr. Baggins. Miles is a bit off in this topic IMO.

He wants Pac to move down to face Marquez but he doesnt give full credit to Pac for asking Cotto to move down 1lb.

The ironic thing is that the haters of Manny actually rate him higher than his fans. They just take for granted that he can move up and down between about three weight classes and smash 'joke' opposition like Antonio Margarito and Shane Mosley.

The criticisms against him are amazing. I mean at welterweight he has beaten Oscar, Cotto, Clottey, Margo at 150 and is now fighting Shane Mosley.

When Floyd when up to welter he fought Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah coming off a loss to Carlos Baldomir, then Baldo himself in a fight where he danced around the ring for 12 rounds and refused to engage for a second. He then dragged up Hatton and Marquez to fight him (I give him full props for fighting Oscar at 154 however, to me that WAS a big deal considering how many divisions Floyd climbed to ultimately get that fight).

Manny basically immediately has fought all the guys Floyd dodged for years and has literally battered them around the ring, and some people can just gripe 'Oh but he made him lose a pound! This win means nothing! NOTHING!'.

Let's face it, if Miles was present to witness Jesus feed the 5000 with 5 loaves and 3 fish or whatever he would be like 'Cod? COD? This is just common cod and white bread! Why didn't he make us some nice sea bass and a nice French loaf?' Bah! Rubbish, call himself the Messiah!!

Hey, don't forget to criticize Pacquiao for not fight Sergio Martinez.

Margarito at 151 or Martinez at 154?

Which of those fights is the more meaningful? The Margarito was for show only and to keep the money in house. It didn't show us that Pac could fight the best fighter in the division at the correct stipulated weight. Again people were quite vocal in their criticism's of the fight beforehand.

Again, we shouldn't sugar coat it and make it out to be something extraordinary. Margarito wasn't even a proper JMW and certainly wasn't the best in the division. He hasn't proven that at all, on recent form he wasn't even the best at WW.

But okay, we are moving back down to WW and now that Mosley is hitting 40 and hasn't looked good after a massive layoff, the time is right. It is so cynical and calculated.

[Master]

What Manny Pac has done deserves credit and cannot be emulated by any fighter today.

[Julius Rain]

haters will hate, great fighters will continue to be great and Julius Rain will sit back and watch....occasionally poke at deluded haters

[miron_lang]

What Manny Pac has done deserves credit and cannot be emulated by any fighter today.

Cherry picking tailor made opponent
Weight draining opponent
PEDS
Selecting shot fighters


all of these cannot be all true if we are talking logically here. But some of Manny's detractors have used all of these things against him.


Why would Pac need PEDS if he is fighting shot fighters?
Why would Pac weight drain opponent if they are tailor made for him anyway?

It doesn't add up.


but i agree Pac should have not chosen Mosley. Berto is the right choice but given that i can see these things being said if that was the case


- Berto is overrated
- Berto has not beaten an elite fighter
- Pac is cherry picking the unproven Berto



Can't please everybody specially in Forums

[Gandalf]

If it's not a big deal for fighters to move down a whole weight class why the drama when Cotto moves down a single pound, and Margarito moves UP half a division for fights with Pac?

Perfect logic and straight to the point Mr. Baggins. Miles is a bit off in this topic IMO.

He wants Pac to move down to face Marquez but he doesnt give full credit to Pac for asking Cotto to move down 1lb.

The ironic thing is that the haters of Manny actually rate him higher than his fans. They just take for granted that he can move up and down between about three weight classes and smash 'joke' opposition like Antonio Margarito and Shane Mosley.

The criticisms against him are amazing. I mean at welterweight he has beaten Oscar, Cotto, Clottey, Margo at 150 and is now fighting Shane Mosley.

When Floyd when up to welter he fought Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah coming off a loss to Carlos Baldomir, then Baldo himself in a fight where he danced around the ring for 12 rounds and refused to engage for a second. He then dragged up Hatton and Marquez to fight him (I give him full props for fighting Oscar at 154 however, to me that WAS a big deal considering how many divisions Floyd climbed to ultimately get that fight).

Manny basically immediately has fought all the guys Floyd dodged for years and has literally battered them around the ring, and some people can just gripe 'Oh but he made him lose a pound! This win means nothing! NOTHING!'.

Let's face it, if Miles was present to witness Jesus feed the 5000 with 5 loaves and 3 fish or whatever he would be like 'Cod? COD? This is just common cod and white bread! Why didn't he make us some nice sea bass and a nice French loaf?' Bah! Rubbish, call himself the Messiah!!

Why is it always me that is singled out? I am one of the more moderate of the Pac critics! I have also been a strong critic of Floyd at 140 and above too and Floyd definitely deserves more of the criticism. I think we can both agree on that. But having said that, if there are weaknesses then they must be pointed out. I was critical of the Cotto CW before the fight was even made, so it is a view I have always had. If there was no advantage to be gained from it then why did Roach make it part of the fight agreement. We can all quibble and say "but it was only a couple of pounds". But a couple of pounds to these guys who burn off a lot is significant. Heck, why not just have Cotto back at JWW after all it's only 5 pounds less than the CW. Surely nothing! These small numbers are significant when dealing with fighters. Anything extra to take the edge off.

And the same with Margarito, if you want to be a proper 154 champion then you should actually beat a 154 champ at that weight. I do not regard Margarito as a LMW champion, it was a paper belt at best and fought at another CW. Margarito had been discredited and labelled a cheater and suddenly we are to regard him as a JMW world champion? Nonsense, Martinez is what I regard as a JMW champion. The real deal who fought his way to the top the proper way, not a cheater like Margarito who got bought a belt in his first comeback bout by the awful Arum.

Mosley is an old man, clearly past his best. This is a horrible fight for me because I really like Mosley, but he has shown very little in recent fights. How is a 40 year old Mosley going to have the stamina to keep up with Pac? At the least Pac should be fighting credible opponents on some kind of streak. Sure Mosley has his power, but if he can't land and Pac is using his footwork it will be a very long night. He doesn't have Margarito's output or relative youth. Nobody is going to get any pleasure from seeing Mosley get put to pasture in what could be a very messy end to a career.

I regard Manny at these weights far higher than Floyd, he is exciting to watch and goes for the KO every time. But let's not make excuses for CW's and paper titles, they don't mean anything. Pac did nothing at LW and he did nothing at JMW, he took a trinket from one of the worst fighters in the division and then took one from one who didn't even deserve a trinket in the first place. At WW he wouldn't even fight at the weight. There is just no need for that. JMM deserves respect for hanging around and cleaning up a division, Pac never even attempts to do such a thing.

I like watching Pac fight, but we mustn't try and sugar coat everything. At the end of the day this is boxing and Pac's team are not the most trustworthy or reliable of people. They make questionable decisions and Pac seems to go along with it. He deserves his portion of the blame. Are we to assume that Pac the politician has no views about what is being done with his career? Of course he does, he is quite complicit.