Haye's career defining fights.

[bzkfn]

1) Jean Marc Mormeck

2) John Ruiz

3) Nikolay Valuev

Yes David you really can 'hold your head up high' if the Klitchsko fights don't go ahead before you hide behind your grand old age of 31 years.

What a joke, he's nothing but a celebrity boxer who's conning the public the same way Ricky Hatton did but on a larger scale. Atleast Ricky did love boxing and had career defining fights.

And Wlad's career defining fights are better? They need each other for f*cks sake. Fact is, neither of them has faced an opponent more dangerous than the other.

Wlad has had far more significant fights than Haye at HW. Ibragimov, Peter, Chambers, Chagaev, Byrd and even ahem Rahman are better fighters than anyone Haye has faced at HW IMO. Haye is all flash at HW so far and beyond picking up the belt hasn't beaten anyone of the same age or in their prime. He appears to be dangerous, but aside from beating Valuev has done nothing to even deserve a shot at Wlad really. Haye fights once, perhaps twice a year and and since moving up hasn't even been in against top fighters. He hasn't attempted to fight any of the fighters Wlad has and we could even put Adamek, Arreola and Povetkin into the pot too.

Haye was a good cruiserweight, although not particularly disposed to regular ring action, but at HW he has been a bit of a fraud thus far and recent quality of opposition has been extremely mediocre.

Lets be clear though, each of his Heavyweight opponents barring Monte Barrett have been business decisions. Valuev was offering more money than Vitali or Haye, so he fought for that version of the heavyweight title. Winning it was a bargaining chip for more money with the Klitschko's so he had to fight Ruiz (mandatory) or he'd have been stripped of said bargaining chip. Then he fought Harrison because it was no risk and massive financial reward. Harrison didn't deserve it, but it was an easy payday. That isn't avoidence, that is purely refusing to fight for a smaller slice of pay.

It doesn't escape the fact that Wlad has beaten far more significant names than Haye has though. Like I say, Harrison might have been good for business and winning a belt against Valuev was practical, but beyond talking a lot, it isn't so much his in ring action that has led to the demand for a Wlad fight. I really don't think it matters so much if Wlad doesn't fight Haye as he has beaten names and been champ a long time, but it really does matter to Hayes legacy as a fighter with only 2 dozen fights and a lack of credible big name opponents on his resume.

I disagree. The names you mentioned on Wlad's record are hardly career defining fights. I would also suggest some of those names you mentioned are not better than Valuev or Ruiz. No way is a shot Hasim Rahman a more career defining fight than either of those 2 names. Chambers isn't much either. Chagaev is likely next for Haye so really I'm not seeing how Wlad is so much better. Not one name on his record is considered a more dangerous opponent to him than David Haye. They need each other.

[Gandalf]

1) Jean Marc Mormeck

2) John Ruiz

3) Nikolay Valuev

Yes David you really can 'hold your head up high' if the Klitchsko fights don't go ahead before you hide behind your grand old age of 31 years.

What a joke, he's nothing but a celebrity boxer who's conning the public the same way Ricky Hatton did but on a larger scale. Atleast Ricky did love boxing and had career defining fights.

And Wlad's career defining fights are better? They need each other for f*cks sake. Fact is, neither of them has faced an opponent more dangerous than the other.

Wlad has had far more significant fights than Haye at HW. Ibragimov, Peter, Chambers, Chagaev, Byrd and even ahem Rahman are better fighters than anyone Haye has faced at HW IMO. Haye is all flash at HW so far and beyond picking up the belt hasn't beaten anyone of the same age or in their prime. He appears to be dangerous, but aside from beating Valuev has done nothing to even deserve a shot at Wlad really. Haye fights once, perhaps twice a year and and since moving up hasn't even been in against top fighters. He hasn't attempted to fight any of the fighters Wlad has and we could even put Adamek, Arreola and Povetkin into the pot too.

Haye was a good cruiserweight, although not particularly disposed to regular ring action, but at HW he has been a bit of a fraud thus far and recent quality of opposition has been extremely mediocre.

Lets be clear though, each of his Heavyweight opponents barring Monte Barrett have been business decisions. Valuev was offering more money than Vitali or Haye, so he fought for that version of the heavyweight title. Winning it was a bargaining chip for more money with the Klitschko's so he had to fight Ruiz (mandatory) or he'd have been stripped of said bargaining chip. Then he fought Harrison because it was no risk and massive financial reward. Harrison didn't deserve it, but it was an easy payday. That isn't avoidence, that is purely refusing to fight for a smaller slice of pay.

It doesn't escape the fact that Wlad has beaten far more significant names than Haye has though. Like I say, Harrison might have been good for business and winning a belt against Valuev was practical, but beyond talking a lot, it isn't so much his in ring action that has led to the demand for a Wlad fight. I really don't think it matters so much if Wlad doesn't fight Haye as he has beaten names and been champ a long time, but it really does matter to Hayes legacy as a fighter with only 2 dozen fights and a lack of credible big name opponents on his resume.

I disagree. The names you mentioned on Wlad's record are hardly career defining fights. I would also suggest some of those names you mentioned are not better than Valuev or Ruiz. No way is a shot Hasim Rahman a more career defining fight than either of those 2 names. Chambers isn't much either. Chagaev is likely next for Haye so really I'm not seeing how Wlad is so much better.

It depends of how you are defining a career defining fight. Those fighters are as good as it gets in HW boxing over the last decade. Not as eye catching as what we saw in the '90's, but what can you do. Chagaev already beat Valuev really (pesky judges) and a 37 year old battle torn retired Ruiz would be beaten by most of those fighters too.

Haye hasn't really done that much at HW and his inactivity goes against him too. Sure, Wlad has been in no megafights per se, but his resume is solid and better than Haye's. You don't really see career defining fights at HW, but this fight has been built on a war of words rather than anything spectacular in the ring. I'm not convinced that Haye is even the 3rd best heavyweight in the world right now, but I am curious to see a Wlad or Vitali fight like anyone else.

[Memphis]

Again this isnt about who is better, Haye or Wlad.

Sure Haye loves the attention, but its only recently he's been getting it, not like Amir or Ricky who have had massive followings from day dot. Anyone who thinks has has conned his way into the limelight is a prick.

[bzkfn]

To me it was clear this thread was started to claim that Haye needs Wlad, hence why I counter claimed. Miles, my point was that not one of the names you mentioned of Wlad's record would go in as favourite in a fight with David Haye. Like it or not, he is widely considered the biggest threat to Wlad's crown so for them not to fight would be a blow to both. It is a career defining fight for both. As a career defining fight, are you suggesting Wlad can pack up happy he has done all he can to cement his legacy, or do you agree that Wlad needs Haye? I'm not saying Haye doesn't need Wlad, because he does. My argument is that they both need each other.

[porkypara]

If you judge Haye as a CW then he fought the best and beat the best.

However Hayes record at HW is not that impressive.He beat Valuev for the title which is fair enough,he had to fight Ruiz because he was his mandentory which again he did not have much choice in.

Not much excuse in fighting Harrison apart from the money and an easy nights work .

So Haye still has a lot to prove at HW IMO.

[El Kabong]

What about Enzo Maccarinelli? I seem to remember a lot of bragging about that fight.

[Memphis]

What about Enzo Maccarinelli? I seem to remember a lot of bragging about that fight.

Yes but you remember alot of things that werent actually true dont you Lyle. Most people here ignore anything you care to remember as its more than likely bollocks. A few nut jobs go along with it but more fool them I say.

[smashup]

What about Enzo Maccarinelli? I seem to remember a lot of bragging about that fight.

Yes but you remember alot of things that werent actually true dont you Lyle. Most people here ignore anything you care to remember as its more than likely bollocks. A few nut jobs go along with it but more fool them I say.

I am and have been for sometime...utterly convinced that Lyle actually lives in Vitalis ring piece

I'd bet heavily he's got his picture on his wall and his name upon his scarf

[El Kabong]

What about Enzo Maccarinelli? I seem to remember a lot of bragging about that fight.

Yes but you remember alot of things that werent actually true dont you Lyle. Most people here ignore anything you care to remember as its more than likely bollocks. A few nut jobs go along with it but more fool them I say.

I just asked a question Memphis, no need to get your panties in a wad. Its not like I said that the Maccarinelli fight was THE defining fight for him I merely wondered why it wasn't included especially since the WBA title holder himself thought so highly of his performance in that fight. Its not like I mentioned the Monte Barrett fight or Audley Harrison fight.

You Brits need to get a grip, not EVERY post I make is purposely meant to stir you up....occasionally I do have my fun, but ffs take a chill pill, I make one post and all of you are up on your hind legs getting all defensive and calling me names....I think you're protesting too much, I believe I've hit a nerve with you guys.

[Gandalf]

To me it was clear this thread was started to claim that Haye needs Wlad, hence why I counter claimed. Miles, my point was that not one of the names you mentioned of Wlad's record would go in as favourite in a fight with David Haye. Like it or not, he is widely considered the biggest threat to Wlad's crown so for them not to fight would be a blow to both. It is a career defining fight for both. As a career defining fight, are you suggesting Wlad can pack up happy he has done all he can to cement his legacy, or do you agree that Wlad needs Haye? I'm not saying Haye doesn't need Wlad, because he does. My argument is that they both need each other.

I think both Wlad and Vitali have had long and fairly decent careers, so could call it a day without fighting Haye, but it would be better to see them fight Haye though. It would add a bit more at the end. No reason why they shouldn't. It's big money and all the talking has built up some expectation. Belt holder against best holder with a bit of a grudge thrown in for good measure.

Yeah, get it on. Like I say, I want to see it too.

[El Kabong]

#1 No you specifically didn't call me a name Memphis but other Brits have and you stated that my question was "Made up" and "Bollocks"

#2 Where did I make something up? I just asked a simple question.

[Memphis]

#1 No you specifically didn't call me a name Memphis but other Brits have and you stated that my question was "Made up" and "Bollocks"

#2 Where did I make something up? I just asked a simple question.

Other Brits have so Im guilty too? Bit racists init?

I didnt say your question was made up or bollocks, I said your memory is shit and that other people think your recollection of certain events is more than likely bollocks, you proved that in #1

as for #2, see response to #1

[El Kabong]

#1 British isn't a race

#2 What did I remember incorrectly?

[Memphis]

Well I didnt say your question was made up or bollocks for a start. I havent had to leave this thread and your doing all the work for me

[erics44]

#1 British isn't a race

#2 What did I remember incorrectly?

1# we are a race

2# you always use numbers in your posts

3# do you ever talk about anything else other than wlad klit?