Saul Alvarez vs Matthew Hatton for the WBC Light Middleweight title

[Kev]

you know the more i think about it and the more i read watch the build up and look at their records the more i think hatton has a chance of winning this fight

We all know how people like to build up young boxers, hes the next mexican great and all that, you watch a boxing show what he is on and all you hear is how great he is or is gonna be, its bound to influence

he looks good dont get me wrong but his record isnt amazing, I dont think there is anything hatton couldnt have handled in the same way in his current form

Alvarezes best win on paper is the baldomir KO, but what stage of his carear was baldomir at?

I think this fight will be a lot closer than people are suggesting

Seeing as Alvarez had to go to decision against recent Hatton oppponent Lovemore N'dou in his last fight I don't think we are witnessing the emergence of a p4p star just yet.

I expect Alvarez to win, and I'm certainly no fan of Matthew Hatton but if he believes in himself and doesn't freeze he can make this a competitive fight.

My guess is Alvarez wears him down and stops him late but it's a good matchup for Alvarez at this stage in his career, only twenty years old after all.

Whether it should be for a light middleweight title is debatable but the belt is vacant, and they don't mean a lot these days anyhow.

At the end of the day Golden Boy believe in Alvarez and think he could be the next big Mexican star. The WBC presumably also think he is a better champion elect for them than Ryan Rhodes and who can really disagree?

Alvarez is good for boxing. He's popular, he's exciting, he may well be one for the future. Ryan Rhodes offers what to world boxing exactly?

Boxing isn't a meritocracy, and personally I'm ok with that.

[erics44]

I agree, alvarez will mean more to the world of boxing than rhodes

ideally tho what i would most like to happen is Hatton win in a cracker and the brings the belt home to fight rhodes

maybe that is a bit far fetched like

[boxingbantz]

Your missing the point about Ryan Rhodes.

The point was people like Ryan Rhodes, Vanes Martirosyan and Alfredo Angulo have been after the belt for a couple of years and they see someone else, this time cue ball head, jump ahead of them and get a shot at the light middleweight title.

[Kev]

Your missing the point about Ryan Rhodes.

The point was people like Ryan Rhodes, Vanes Martirosyan and Alfredo Angulo have been after the belt for a couple of years and they see someone else, this time cue ball head, jump ahead of them and get a shot at the light middleweight title.

Yes but your missing the point about boxing. It isn't a meritocracy. It's a comercially driven entertainment sport where popularity matters. It's less like organised sports like soccer and more like the movies. Is it fair that Hollywood can make gazillions of dollars churning out utter dross disaster movies or focker's style comedies that are enjoyed by the idiot masses whilst great low budget movies or foreign films get overlooked? No but that is the way the world works.

I expect you yourself would rather watch Avatar than Baaria or White Ribbon and most boxing fans would rather see Saul Alvarez fighting for a world title than Ryan Rhodes.

[boxingbantz]

Your missing the point about Ryan Rhodes.

The point was people like Ryan Rhodes, Vanes Martirosyan and Alfredo Angulo have been after the belt for a couple of years and they see someone else, this time cue ball head, jump ahead of them and get a shot at the light middleweight title.

Yes but your missing the point about boxing. It isn't a meritocracy. It's a comercially driven entertainment sport where popularity matters. It's less like organised sports like soccer and more like the movies. Is it fair that Hollywood can make gazillions of dollars churning out utter dross disaster movies or focker's style comedies that are enjoyed by the idiot masses whilst great low budget movies or foreign films get overlooked? No but that is the way the world works.

I expect you yourself would rather watch Avatar than Baaria or White Ribbon and most boxing fans would rather see Saul Alvarez fighting for a world title than Ryan Rhodes.

Your missing the point again. I want to see Saul Alvarez fighting for a world title. That isn't my problem. My problem is the choice of opponent FOR the world title fight. If he'd have been fighting Ryan Rhodes or Angulo for the title, I wouldn't have had anything against it. Pac fighting for the title was a joke but, to be fair, he was the best welterweight in the world and it was the next logically step up if he wanted another title in another weight. Hatton is only European welterweight champion and would get destroyed by the majority of the top ten fighters in the division. At least, by fighting Ryan Rhodes (or anyone else in the top ten), Alvarez would be fighting one of the' best' in the division.

It's strange that the majority of the boxing public are outraged that Matthew Hatton has a world title fight at light middleweight but a few on here don't seem to have a problem with it. The problem isn't, as i've said, with Alvarez.

[erics44]

Yes I would rather see Saul Alvarez fighting for a world title. That isn't my problem. My problem is the choice of opponent FOR the world title fight. If he'd have been fighting Ryan Rhodes or Angulo for the title, I wouldn't have had anything against it.

the fight was already made

The WBC obviously wanted alvarez to fight for the title so what options did they have to get it done following manny vacating?

[Kev]

Your missing the point about Ryan Rhodes.

The point was people like Ryan Rhodes, Vanes Martirosyan and Alfredo Angulo have been after the belt for a couple of years and they see someone else, this time cue ball head, jump ahead of them and get a shot at the light middleweight title.

Yes but your missing the point about boxing. It isn't a meritocracy. It's a comercially driven entertainment sport where popularity matters. It's less like organised sports like soccer and more like the movies. Is it fair that Hollywood can make gazillions of dollars churning out utter dross disaster movies or focker's style comedies that are enjoyed by the idiot masses whilst great low budget movies or foreign films get overlooked? No but that is the way the world works.

I expect you yourself would rather watch Avatar than Baaria or White Ribbon and most boxing fans would rather see Saul Alvarez fighting for a world title than Ryan Rhodes.

Your missing the point again. I want to see Saul Alvarez fighting for a world title. That isn't my problem. My problem is the choice of opponent FOR the world title fight. If he'd have been fighting Ryan Rhodes or Angulo for the title, I wouldn't have had anything against it. Pac fighting for the title was a joke but, to be fair, he was the best welterweight in the world and it was the next logically step up if he wanted another title in another weight. Hatton is only the European welterweight champion who would get destroyed by the majority of the top ten fighters in the division. At least, by fighting Ryan Rhodes (or anyone else in the top ten), Alvarez would be fighting one of the best in the division.

I agree that Matthew Hatton isn't the ideal opponent to win a world title from, but he's actually a very respectable opponent for Alvarez at this stage in his career. He's the reigning European light welterweight champion, is unbeaten in 10 fights and has defended his title two times. He's also rated number 5 in the world in both the WBA and WBC rankings.

Alvarez is twenty years old.

It's not a bad fight in all honesty, if it was for a vacant light welter title it would be completely legitimate imo.

At light middle it's clearly a case of negotiating power over merit but as I couldn't care less about Ryan Rhodes or any of the other non entities at the weight class it doesn't bother me.

[erics44]

It's strange that the majority of the boxing public are outraged that Matthew Hatton has a world title fight at light middleweight but a few on here don't seem to have a problem with it. The problem isn't, as i've said, with Alvarez.

Bilboa is obviously taking over in my argument on this one, which I am a little upset about mind, i like a good debate as you know and i was in the thick of things before, now i seem to be an outsider in my own barrel of fun

anyway, just to make a point on this point, the bit ive bolded isnt really true

[boxingbantz]

anyway, just to make a point on this point, the bit ive bolded isnt really true

Ok.

[erics44]

anyway, just to make a point on this point, the bit ive bolded isnt really true

Ok.

do you love me now?

[bzkfn]

Boxing isn't a meritocracy, and personally I'm ok with that.

Bilbo, honestly how can you be ok with fighters not getting what they deserve. Boxing is an unforgiving business, and really isn't helped by a corrupt sanctioning body that bypasses their own rankings just to attempt to give their belt to a Mexican? All they want to do is push Mexican fighters. My argument is not with Alvarez or Hatton, but with the WBC, for once again giftwrapping a title to 2 fighters who have done absolutely nothing to warrant a world title shot in this division. It saddens me that both you and Eric would accept this. As fans of Boxing, don't you want to see fighters earn their way to a World Title? If this was for a vacant 147 title, I'd have less of a problem, but what is the point of having weightclasses, rankings, elimanators etc. if you're just going to give 2 guys who are undeserving at the 154lb weightclass a free pass ove those who are winning elimanators? Fans accepting this is just going to lead to more bullshit from idiots like Suliaman.

[Kev]

Boxing isn't a meritocracy, and personally I'm ok with that.

Bilbo, honestly how can you be ok with fighters not getting what they deserve. Boxing is an unforgiving business, and really isn't helped by a corrupt sanctioning body that bypasses their own rankings just to attempt to give their belt to a Mexican? All they want to do is push Mexican fighters. My argument is not with Alvarez or Hatton, but with the WBC, for once again giftwrapping a title to 2 fighters who have done absolutely nothing to warrant a world title shot in this division. It saddens me that both you and Eric would accept this. As fans of Boxing, don't you want to see fighters earn their way to a World Title? If this was for a vacant 147 title, I'd have less of a problem, but what is the point of having weightclasses, rankings, elimanators etc. if you're just going to give 2 guys who are undeserving at the 154lb weightclass a free pass ove those who are winning elimanators? Fans accepting this is just going to lead to more bullshit from idiots like Suliaman.

I have to be honest I see boxing and MMA as entertainment. I just want to see the best fights get made, and belts, weight classes etc don't interest me.

I don't care about catchweights, I don't care about alphabet belts or anything else.

As I understand it this fight is to take place at 150 lbs, a weight Alvarez has fought at for his last few fights. He's only 20 so clearly is going to grow into a full junior and then middleweight fighter so makes sense he's moving up.

Yes neither he now Hatton has done anything to warrant a world title in that division, but since when has a belt had any meaning in a division? If you want to see who is the best fighter in a weight class look to the Ring Rankings, the belts mean absolutely nothing to fight fans and do not (and havent for decades) represented who are the best fighters in the division.

What having a world title will do for Alvarez however is give him an increased profile which is good for the sport, at least commercially.

Id' rather have guys like Alvarez and Gamboa being managed to artificially created belts than have fighters with no world appeal or interest hold them.

The lightweight middle division is currently a wasteland with no decent fighters. It seems that the WBC are trying to encourage at least one commercially viable exciting prospect there and to give him a belt, which is no bad thing.

As for Hatton vs Rhodes as an opponent. Maybe Alvarez doesnt want to weigh 154lbs just yet and hasn't grown into the weight so is going for a 147lber.

I don't really care to be honest, I have no purist attatchment to either weightclasses ro title belts, I just want them to bring Alvarez along and get him to have a decent marketable career.

I have no problem with the fight at all.

[Kev]

I should add a caveat here. I'm thinking like this because the light middleweight division as it stands is a mess.

With Williams and Martinez moving up, and Manny moving back down it's one of the most empty divisions in boxing with no recognised champions. Fuck K9 Bundrage is a world champ there!

So having a high profile fighter like Alvarez who could bring some excitment to the weight class move into it is a good thing.

I wouldn't support fighters going into a stacked weight class and getting a title shot ahead of legit stars but pragmatically in this case I don't see it as a bad thing to get a guy like Alvarez into the division with a belt and some marketing to make the division a bit more exciting.

At the end of the day boxing isn't like other sports. It's an event based sport where each big fightcard is like a movie release. We need big movies and Alvarez having a world title belt might help create that later in the year and in 2012 in the light middleweight division.

[TitoFan]

Boxing isn't a meritocracy, and personally I'm ok with that.

Bilbo, honestly how can you be ok with fighters not getting what they deserve. Boxing is an unforgiving business, and really isn't helped by a corrupt sanctioning body that bypasses their own rankings just to attempt to give their belt to a Mexican? All they want to do is push Mexican fighters. My argument is not with Alvarez or Hatton, but with the WBC, for once again giftwrapping a title to 2 fighters who have done absolutely nothing to warrant a world title shot in this division. It saddens me that both you and Eric would accept this. As fans of Boxing, don't you want to see fighters earn their way to a World Title? If this was for a vacant 147 title, I'd have less of a problem, but what is the point of having weightclasses, rankings, elimanators etc. if you're just going to give 2 guys who are undeserving at the 154lb weightclass a free pass ove those who are winning elimanators? Fans accepting this is just going to lead to more bullshit from idiots like Suliaman.

I like to see entertaining fights too... just like the next guy. But you make a good point regarding the WBC. I wouldn't mind too much if this favoritism they have were more subtle and understated. But it's not... it's blatant and insulting to us real boxing fans. Suliaman should've been removed from his post a LONG TIME AGO... all he's done is undermine the little credibility boxing has left in some circles.

I'm not saying the other organizations are head and shoulders above the WBC. But with Suliaman at the helm, the WBC might as well just put out a full-page ad:

"World title holders WANTED: (Non-Mexicans need not apply)."