Top 5 P4P Now?

[Kev]

I think HBO guys like Roy Jones are putting him at #2 because of skillset. I completely agree, skill wise Nonito is right below Pacquiao but considering every factor such as resume I have to place him third or forth.

When it comes to skills i dont think anybody can deny him that number 2 slot.

Its PURELY Subjective these p4p Rankings so its justified to do that. But i would equate a fighters recent work and the quality of opponent.

Between 4 and 6 is where i wold put Donairre. Pac, Floyd and Marquez are definitely above him.

but potentially That skillset + power on both hands = Scary

I disagree. Just because something is subjective it should still conform to strict and established criteria.

Scoring a fight is subjective, but that sure as hell doesn't mean a judge can get away with just picking who he likes. We criticise poor judging so it's entirely consistent to criticise poor ranking.

I think Donaire justifies his p4p status now, but until yesterday and his fine demolition of Montiel, he didn't. He had only ever fought one world champion in his career, and that over three years ago. Sure he had talent but he hadn't built the achievements to justify the ludicrously high top 4 ranking the Ring have given him for the past year.

If you just want to go on potential and talent then Gamboa, Rigondeux and Khan must all be knocking on the top 5 right? I mean their skillsets are there for everybody to see, and nobody is faster than Gamboa and Khan.

Never mind that they haven't actually beat, or even fought the top guys in their weight classes yet I believe they will win so I'm putting them top 5 now.

That's the kind of thought process I expect from an Eastside boxing member, not the voting panel for the world's most prestigious magazine.

[TitoFan]

MY personal top 5 p4p does not include Floyd Mayweather.

(collective sigh of disbelief from Mayweather fans)

I just don't think that having fought the overrated Hatton, undersized JMM, and over-the-hill Mosley in about 3 1/2 frigging years is action enough to warrant a top 5 p4p ranking for the Pretty Boy. (Even RJJ himself was calling him inactive during last night's telecast.... and he LIKES Floyd).

That being said, let the insults rain, and the booing begin........

If you are removing him from the ratings altogether on the grounds that he is inactive/retired then it's a fair position to hold, although for myself I still have him at two as he's not not publicly retired.

If you're saying you have him further down your list however and just don't think his current opposition is worthy of a top 5 placement then that is the most retarded thing I've heard on Saddo's this week at least, certainly since Seanie's plan to get doctor's to lead the protests for better fight matchups

Then it's the former.


No, seriously... it's both. But Seanie's plan is STILL way more retarded. C'mon... you're still carrying Pretty Boy's torch even though he's done little in the last 3+ years to deserve it? Seriously? I mean... p4p should be based on recent accomplishments and on that basis alone. Are you honestly going to defend PBF's record in the last 3+ years as worthy of p4p? How long are you Floyd fans going to carry his jock... er... torch? C'mon!! The guy's dangling you fans on a string and playing you like yo-yo's. Look at his recent resume again:

Hatton - Enough said about that.
JMM - A true ATG... just not at the weight he fought Floyd. He was in WAY over his head.
Mosley - The guy aged before our very eyes.

What else has he done? Well.... besides dancing with the stars and wrestling Big Show. He's beaten up women and security guards... but those don't count for p4p ratings. What has he done? He ain't done JACK. All he does is run at the mouth, and... frankly... some of us are damn tired of it.

P4P? Not for this boxing fan.

[Rantcatrat]

..... let's not get carried away.

getting carried away is putting donaire at no. 2. imo he deserve to move at least a position up the p4p ranking.

Even I won't argue against a number 4 ranking now. He's fought the two fighters regarded as the best opposition out there at that time and totally smashed them. I don't think anybody else has done that lately. Martinez hasn't, Bradley, Marquez, Lopez, Ward etc.

Only Pacquaio has been toppling top guys as impressively.

How could Martinez recent opposition have been better? He completely outclassed the top fighters in two divisions.

His opposition has been steller but he hasn't destroyed them the way Donaire has. He lost the first fight with Williams, fought to a draw with Kermit Cintron (yes I know it was bullshit).

Meanwhile Donaire has wrecked his opposition, completely sparking them like Martinez did in the Williams rematch.

I think Martinez is 1-1-1 in his last three fights?

Oh he did beat Pavlik too. But again it was a competive fight until down the stretch and it went to the cards. Not a demolition like Donaire did tonight and against Vic.

His second victory over Williams was every bit as impressive as Donaire's victory tonight. Williams wildly considered a top 3-5 p4p fighter at the time and Martinez absolutely wrecked him. He also completely outclassed Pavlik (who I thought would knock him out) who had only lost to Hopkins at that point and was still the undisputed MW champ. Those victories might look somewhat less impressive in retrospect, but at the time they were very good.

And the Cintron fight was one of the most egregious robberies in the last 20 years. He literally beat him twice in the same night.

Agree

[ElTerribleMorales]

MY personal top 5 p4p does not include Floyd Mayweather.

(collective sigh of disbelief from Mayweather fans)

I just don't think that having fought the overrated Hatton, undersized JMM, and over-the-hill Mosley in about 3 1/2 frigging years is action enough to warrant a top 5 p4p ranking for the Pretty Boy. (Even RJJ himself was calling him inactive during last night's telecast.... and he LIKES Floyd).

That being said, let the insults rain, and the booing begin........

If you are removing him from the ratings altogether on the grounds that he is inactive/retired then it's a fair position to hold, although for myself I still have him at two as he's not not publicly retired.

If you're saying you have him further down your list however and just don't think his current opposition is worthy of a top 5 placement then that is the most retarded thing I've heard on Saddo's this week at least, certainly since Seanie's plan to get doctor's to lead the protests for better fight matchups

Then it's the former.


No, seriously... it's both. But Seanie's plan is STILL way more retarded. C'mon... you're still carrying Pretty Boy's torch even though he's done little in the last 3+ years to deserve it? Seriously? I mean... p4p should be based on recent accomplishments and on that basis alone. Are you honestly going to defend PBF's record in the last 3+ years as worthy of p4p? How long are you Floyd fans going to carry his jock... er... torch? C'mon!! The guy's dangling you fans on a string and playing you like yo-yo's. Look at his recent resume again:

Hatton - Enough said about that.
JMM - A true ATG... just not at the weight he fought Floyd. He was in WAY over his head.
Mosley - The guy aged before our very eyes.

What else has he done? Well.... besides dancing with the stars and wrestling Big Show. He's beaten up women and security guards... but those don't count for p4p ratings. What has he done? He ain't done JACK. All he does is run at the mouth, and... frankly... some of us are damn tired of it.

P4P? Not for this boxing fan.

you don't have to like the guy but don't ignore the fact that he's a 5 division champ (and none were at catch weights), he holds wins over Corrales, Castillo, DLH, Gatti, Judah and other good fighters at the lower weights such as Jesus Chavez, Carlos Hernandez, Genaro Hernandez

like i said in another thread you could say the same thing for Pacquiao that you've already said for Floyd

he's fought guys either past their primes or at weights where it's been to his advantage

DLH (completely shot and weight drained)

Hatton (on the slide and had looked like shit in his fights after Mayweather beat him)

Cotto (the general opinion was he lost a step after the Margarito fight and was at a catchweight)

Clottey (had already lost to Cotto prior to fighting Pacquiao)

Margarito (had only had two fights in nearly 2 years away, and he had gotten KO'd and won a UD against a journeyman and he looked like shit in that fight, giving the sense that without plaster he's crap, oh yea and it was another catchweight)

and now Mosley (if he aged front of your very eyes against Floyd, why the hell is Pacquiao recycling yet another one of Mayweather's opponents? oh and he wanted drug tests)

i mean there really is no difference between the two

Mayweather now taking on Paul Williams would be the equivalent of Pacquiao having taken on Margarito, which after what Martinez did to him well i really wouldn't say it means much

[Kev]

MY personal top 5 p4p does not include Floyd Mayweather.

(collective sigh of disbelief from Mayweather fans)

I just don't think that having fought the overrated Hatton, undersized JMM, and over-the-hill Mosley in about 3 1/2 frigging years is action enough to warrant a top 5 p4p ranking for the Pretty Boy. (Even RJJ himself was calling him inactive during last night's telecast.... and he LIKES Floyd).

That being said, let the insults rain, and the booing begin........

If you are removing him from the ratings altogether on the grounds that he is inactive/retired then it's a fair position to hold, although for myself I still have him at two as he's not not publicly retired.

If you're saying you have him further down your list however and just don't think his current opposition is worthy of a top 5 placement then that is the most retarded thing I've heard on Saddo's this week at least, certainly since Seanie's plan to get doctor's to lead the protests for better fight matchups

Then it's the former.


No, seriously... it's both. But Seanie's plan is STILL way more retarded. C'mon... you're still carrying Pretty Boy's torch even though he's done little in the last 3+ years to deserve it? Seriously? I mean... p4p should be based on recent accomplishments and on that basis alone. Are you honestly going to defend PBF's record in the last 3+ years as worthy of p4p? How long are you Floyd fans going to carry his jock... er... torch? C'mon!! The guy's dangling you fans on a string and playing you like yo-yo's. Look at his recent resume again:

Hatton - Enough said about that.
JMM - A true ATG... just not at the weight he fought Floyd. He was in WAY over his head.
Mosley - The guy aged before our very eyes.

What else has he done? Well.... besides dancing with the stars and wrestling Big Show. He's beaten up women and security guards... but those don't count for p4p ratings. What has he done? He ain't done JACK. All he does is run at the mouth, and... frankly... some of us are damn tired of it.

P4P? Not for this boxing fan.

Well hang on he's beat Oscar, Hatton, Marquez and Mosley. Manny has beat Oscar, Hatton, Marquez (controversially) and is next to fight Mosley.

Every guy he beat, he beat after Floyd had already beaten them, apart from Marquez and a large majority think he lost.

So you either a) also don't have Pacquiao in the top 5 either

or b) You rate Manny's wins over Clottey and Margarito as being so much more significant that they justify his inclusion in the top 5.

Either way you are challenging Seanie for the 'tard thought' of the week

[Rantcatrat]

1. Pac
2. Floyd
3. Sergio
4. Marquez
5. Juan Ma

Can you explain why it is you have JuanMa so high on your p4p list?

[Kev]

1. Pac
2. Floyd
3. Sergio
4. Marquez
5. Juan Ma

Can you explain why it is you have JuanMa so high on your p4p list?

Whilst I wouldn't have him there myself his acomplishments are as great as Donaire's imo.

Two weight world champ, undefeated unlike Donaire. Has beaten more world champions than Donaire. Has beaten a future Hall of Famer in R Marquez, not sure Darchinyan or Montiel are on the level of Raphael Marquez.

Lopez has knocked out two reigning world champs in De Leon and Lueveno and forced Marquez to quit after 8 rounds also.

[:::PSL:::]

MY personal top 5 p4p does not include Floyd Mayweather.

(collective sigh of disbelief from Mayweather fans)

I just don't think that having fought the overrated Hatton, undersized JMM, and over-the-hill Mosley in about 3 1/2 frigging years is action enough to warrant a top 5 p4p ranking for the Pretty Boy. (Even RJJ himself was calling him inactive during last night's telecast.... and he LIKES Floyd).

That being said, let the insults rain, and the booing begin........

If you are removing him from the ratings altogether on the grounds that he is inactive/retired then it's a fair position to hold, although for myself I still have him at two as he's not not publicly retired.

If you're saying you have him further down your list however and just don't think his current opposition is worthy of a top 5 placement then that is the most retarded thing I've heard on Saddo's this week at least, certainly since Seanie's plan to get doctor's to lead the protests for better fight matchups

Then it's the former.


No, seriously... it's both. But Seanie's plan is STILL way more retarded. C'mon... you're still carrying Pretty Boy's torch even though he's done little in the last 3+ years to deserve it? Seriously? I mean... p4p should be based on recent accomplishments and on that basis alone. Are you honestly going to defend PBF's record in the last 3+ years as worthy of p4p? How long are you Floyd fans going to carry his jock... er... torch? C'mon!! The guy's dangling you fans on a string and playing you like yo-yo's. Look at his recent resume again:

Hatton - Enough said about that.
JMM - A true ATG... just not at the weight he fought Floyd. He was in WAY over his head.
Mosley - The guy aged before our very eyes.

What else has he done? Well.... besides dancing with the stars and wrestling Big Show. He's beaten up women and security guards... but those don't count for p4p ratings. What has he done? He ain't done JACK. All he does is run at the mouth, and... frankly... some of us are damn tired of it.

P4P? Not for this boxing fan.

Well hang on he's beat Oscar, Hatton, Marquez and Mosley. Manny has beat Oscar, Hatton, Marquez (controversially) and is next to fight Mosley.

Every guy he beat, he beat after Floyd had already beaten them, apart from Marquez and a large majority think he lost.

So you either a) also don't have Pacquiao in the top 5 either

or b) You rate Manny's wins over Clottey and Margarito as being so much more significant that they justify his inclusion in the top 5.

Either way you are challenging Seanie for the 'tard thought' of the week

Mayweather's win over Dela Hoya was questionable too, and Pac destroyed Dela Hoya. Plus Pac did way quicker job against Hatton than Floyd did.

Mayweather is just a part time fighter. And there's no denying the fact that Mayweather avoided Margarito. That makes him a big pussy.

[Rantcatrat]

1. Pac
2. Floyd
3. Sergio
4. Marquez
5. Juan Ma

Can you explain why it is you have JuanMa so high on your p4p list?

Whilst I wouldn't have him there myself his acomplishments are as great as Donaire's imo.

Two weight world champ, undefeated unlike Donaire. Has beaten more world champions than Donaire. Has beaten a future Hall of Famer in R Marquez, not sure Darchinyan or Montiel are on the level of Raphael Marquez.

Lopez has knocked out two reigning world champs in De Leon and Lueveno and forced Marquez to quit after 8 rounds also.

I can't decide how high I'd place JuanMa on my list. I'd have him top ten for sure. My only thing is that he hasn't beat the best in his division at featherweight. Donaire just destroyed the best in his division. I've always liked Mares, but Montiel was the best in the division after Donaire. To me, JuanMa would merit top 5 if he beat Gamboa or Chris John, or he had beat Caballero before Caballero's loss to Litzau, in a similarly decisive fashion. Who was considered the best at 122 when JuanMa was in that division (besides JuanMa)?

Donaire also has gone from 112 to 118, a three division champ whereas JuanMa is a two division champion. Am I correct on that? Can't recall right now exactly.

The Ponce De Leon victory was a big win and that is a big part of the reason why I have him in my top ten. Marquez was great at 118 and 122, but not so much at 126. See my point. Bottom line I guess is that I'm skeptical of giving JuanMa too lofty of a ranking until he beats Gamboa or John.

[Kev]

1. Pac
2. Floyd
3. Sergio
4. Marquez
5. Juan Ma

Can you explain why it is you have JuanMa so high on your p4p list?

Whilst I wouldn't have him there myself his acomplishments are as great as Donaire's imo.

Two weight world champ, undefeated unlike Donaire. Has beaten more world champions than Donaire. Has beaten a future Hall of Famer in R Marquez, not sure Darchinyan or Montiel are on the level of Raphael Marquez.

Lopez has knocked out two reigning world champs in De Leon and Lueveno and forced Marquez to quit after 8 rounds also.

I can't decide how high I'd place JuanMa on my list. I'd have him top ten for sure. My only thing is that he hasn't beat the best in his division at featherweight. Donaire just destroyed the best in his division. I've always liked Mares, but Montiel was the best in the division after Donaire. To me, JuanMa would merit top 5 if he beat Gamboa or Chris John, or he had beat Caballero before Caballero's loss to Litzau, in a similarly decisive fashion. Who was considered the best at 122 when JuanMa was in that division (besides JuanMa)?

Donaire also has gone from 112 to 118, a three division champ whereas JuanMa is a two division champion. Am I correct on that? Can't recall right now exactly.

The Ponce De Leon victory was a big win and that is a big part of the reason why I have him in my top ten. Marquez was great at 118 and 122, but not so much at 126. See my point. Bottom line I guess is that I'm skeptical of giving JuanMa too lofty of a ranking until he beats Gamboa or John.

Donaire started at 115 then moved down to 112 to fight Darchinyan before moving back up again after a couple defences. He's a two weight world champ.

[CFH]

MY personal top 5 p4p does not include Floyd Mayweather.

(collective sigh of disbelief from Mayweather fans)

I just don't think that having fought the overrated Hatton, undersized JMM, and over-the-hill Mosley in about 3 1/2 frigging years is action enough to warrant a top 5 p4p ranking for the Pretty Boy. (Even RJJ himself was calling him inactive during last night's telecast.... and he LIKES Floyd).

That being said, let the insults rain, and the booing begin........

If you are removing him from the ratings altogether on the grounds that he is inactive/retired then it's a fair position to hold, although for myself I still have him at two as he's not not publicly retired.

If you're saying you have him further down your list however and just don't think his current opposition is worthy of a top 5 placement then that is the most retarded thing I've heard on Saddo's this week at least, certainly since Seanie's plan to get doctor's to lead the protests for better fight matchups

Then it's the former.


No, seriously... it's both. But Seanie's plan is STILL way more retarded. C'mon... you're still carrying Pretty Boy's torch even though he's done little in the last 3+ years to deserve it? Seriously? I mean... p4p should be based on recent accomplishments and on that basis alone. Are you honestly going to defend PBF's record in the last 3+ years as worthy of p4p? How long are you Floyd fans going to carry his jock... er... torch? C'mon!! The guy's dangling you fans on a string and playing you like yo-yo's. Look at his recent resume again:

Hatton - Enough said about that.
JMM - A true ATG... just not at the weight he fought Floyd. He was in WAY over his head.
Mosley - The guy aged before our very eyes.

What else has he done? Well.... besides dancing with the stars and wrestling Big Show. He's beaten up women and security guards... but those don't count for p4p ratings. What has he done? He ain't done JACK. All he does is run at the mouth, and... frankly... some of us are damn tired of it.

P4P? Not for this boxing fan.

Well hang on he's beat Oscar, Hatton, Marquez and Mosley. Manny has beat Oscar, Hatton, Marquez (controversially) and is next to fight Mosley.

Every guy he beat, he beat after Floyd had already beaten them, apart from Marquez and a large majority think he lost.

So you either a) also don't have Pacquiao in the top 5 either

or b) You rate Manny's wins over Clottey and Margarito as being so much more significant that they justify his inclusion in the top 5.

Either way you are challenging Seanie for the 'tard thought' of the week

Mayweather's win over Dela Hoya was questionable too, and Pac destroyed Dela Hoya. Plus Pac did way quicker job against Hatton than Floyd did.

Mayweather is just a part time fighter. And there's no denying the fact that Mayweather avoided Margarito. That makes him a big pussy.

There was nothing questionable about Mayweather's win over ODH.

[C-Lo]

Just to put it out there. The pound for pound ratings just got updated. Here it is:

1. Manny
2. Floyd
3. Nonito
4. Sergio
5. Juan Manuel

[Kev]

Just to put it out there. The pound for pound ratings just got updated. Here it is:

1. Manny
2. Floyd
3. Nonito
4. Sergio
5. Juan Manuel

Fucking hell I thought it was bad enough that Donaire had jumped to 3 but they seem to want to court as much controversy as possible.

Wonjongkam at number 6 (really??), Wlad at 7 and Giovani Segura at 10

Utterly bizarre.


Is there really the competition at 108lbs to justify being rated in the top 10 p4p?

There is so so so much more strength in depth in the lightweight-welterweight and super middleweight classes that I can only see this is some kind of political point, positive discrimination .

Calderon for all his skills would not have been successful were he a welterweight as he simply does not have the power. Super skilful guy but he did so well because he fought in a weak division where you don't need to be a complete fighter to be the best.

Segura is simply not as good a fighter as higher weight guys like Martinez, Ward, Froch, Hopkins, Marquez, Lopez, Bradley, Khan etc etc. He's champ in a weak division.

It's like being the undisputed woman's middleweight champ or something, yeah it's good and all, but you don't need to be as complete a fighter to win that as you would the men's middleweight title.

The Ring are losing my respect.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Just to put it out there. The pound for pound ratings just got updated. Here it is:

1. Manny
2. Floyd
3. Nonito
4. Sergio
5. Juan Manuel

Fucking hell I thought it was bad enough that Donaire had jumped to 3 but they seem to want to court as much controversy as possible.

Wonjongkam at number 6 (really??), Wlad at 7 and Giovani Segura at 10

Utterly bizarre.


Is there really the competition at 108lbs to justify being rated in the top 10 p4p?

There is so so so much more strength in depth in the lightweight-welterweight and super middleweight classes that I can only see this is some kind of political point, positive discrimination .

Calderon for all his skills would not have been successful were he a welterweight as he simply does not have the power. Super skilful guy but he did so well because he fought in a weak division where you don't need to be a complete fighter to be the best.

Segura is simply not as good a fighter as higher weight guys like Martinez, Ward, Froch, Hopkins, Marquez, Lopez, Bradley, Khan etc etc. He's champ in a weak division.

It's like being the undisputed woman's middleweight champ or something, yeah it's good and all, but you don't need to be as complete a fighter to win that as you would the men's middleweight title.

The Ring are losing my respect.

Bilbo that's utter bullshit, Malignaggi has zero power and is nowhere as skilled as Calderon, his combination punching, defense and movement would have led him to be successful at any weight if his size was different

[KKisser]

Just to put it out there. The pound for pound ratings just got updated. Here it is:

1. Manny
2. Floyd
3. Nonito
4. Sergio
5. Juan Manuel

Fucking hell I thought it was bad enough that Donaire had jumped to 3 but they seem to want to court as much controversy as possible.

Wonjongkam at number 6 (really??), Wlad at 7 and Giovani Segura at 10

Utterly bizarre.


Is there really the competition at 108lbs to justify being rated in the top 10 p4p?

There is so so so much more strength in depth in the lightweight-welterweight and super middleweight classes that I can only see this is some kind of political point, positive discrimination .

Calderon for all his skills would not have been successful were he a welterweight as he simply does not have the power. Super skilful guy but he did so well because he fought in a weak division where you don't need to be a complete fighter to be the best.

Segura is simply not as good a fighter as higher weight guys like Martinez, Ward, Froch, Hopkins, Marquez, Lopez, Bradley, Khan etc etc. He's champ in a weak division.

It's like being the undisputed woman's middleweight champ or something, yeah it's good and all, but you don't need to be as complete a fighter to win that as you would the men's middleweight title.

The Ring are losing my respect.

Bilbo that's utter bullshit, Malignaggi has zero power and is nowhere as skilled as Calderon, his combination punching, defense and movement would have led him to be successful at any weight if his size was different

i agree, and segura stopping calderon who's perennially been in most p4p lists prior to their meeting delivers a compelling reason why he should be in the top 10, although personally i would have him just outside of it.