The Solution: Create a Superheavyweight Division FAST!

[AdamGB]

great points on the super cruiser thing. i dont think guys who normally weigh-in at an in-shape 230 could make 210, however. tha's a huge drop for a guy that size.

I disagree but that's not the point. It could be jiggled around in some way, to make it accessible...

The main point is, that it brings all the top 5 divisions A LOT closer together.

Jimbo, again a Super-Cruiser division is pointless, as the likes of Haye would continue to fight at Heavy because of the glamour and financial aspect associated to the "Heavyweight Champion" name. Adding the word "Super" to it doesn't make either division sound more appealing, and the general public will once again be more confused at the distorted view of boxing.

Remember, another division means countless more champions. Do we really need anymore?

I think this is a slightly short sighted response. (No offense buddy!)

Firstly, Haye no doubt is a glory hunter but you forget that he fought at Cruiserweight for as long as he could. Do you honestly think he wouldn't of preferred to fight without a 200lbs limit for a while before snatching a belt off a Heavyweight? Of course he would, and look at the potential match up's there could of been...

Secondly, I have absolutely no doubt that most of the boxers around the 225lbs mark would prefer to fight at Heavyweight but then I have no doubt that they would want to fight at 210ish either, especially if it meant picking up a strap from a division that could easily have the likes of Andre Ward, Chad Dawson, Tomasz Ademek & David Haye in it... That's a fantastic division right there!

I'm of the thinking that if the weight classes are brought together and made more accessible so that fighters around the 200lbs are mixing in better company with fighters BOTH bigger and smaller then you start to then add more prestige to all the weight classes in and around it... Including most importantly the Heavyweight division.

***Edit***AdamGB and such like peoples....
If you truly believe boxing has too many weight classes, then look to the bottom of the pile. 3 and 4 pound differentials... I agree, it's a joke.
However, there's a real problem at the top of the scales that needs to be re-addressed IMHO, the gap needs to be bridged from 175 upwards.

I was actually going to say this... but didn't think it was 100% relevant, I have a hard time taking a lot of the lighter weights seriously when the difference is like 4 pounds.

When they weight difference is the same as taking a crap/not taking a crap you have to worry.

I know the argument here is - if those guys need 4 pounds then bigger guys shouldn't have to have differnces of 20,30,40 pounds.

But I think Bilbo is right... Heavyweights reach a critical mass... the big ones tend to either be shite or plain out of shape. There simply isn't enough legitimate big men to need a whole new division.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Heavyweights reach a critical mass... the big ones tend to either be shite or plain out of shape. There simply isn't enough legitimate big men to need a whole new division.

I agree... I really do but I just feel that the bridge between Light Heavyweight And Heavyweight isn't facilitated by Cruiserweight at all.

Light Heavyweights don't hardly ever move upto Cruiserweight and Cruiserweights don't ever fight at Heavyweight.

Of course Haye has kicked off a little trend but I bet that'll fizzle out as soon as Ademek gets his blocked knocked of by KitschkoTBA

[Spicoli]

Last thing in the world we need is another over fed division handing out trinkets really . We actually had a super cruiserweight division (bit of an oxy moron ha) and I believe its initial champion was Bobby Czyz...it didn't last Talk of spr hvy exploded back when Grant was coming up, Lewis was in the swing, Goofy Whitaker for heavens sake lol...Dont need bigger....we just need better, and willing!! Valuev was as big as they come but the carnival fascination didn't translate into skillset...vs two 'cruisers' moved up to hvy btw. One old enough to be his pappy.

[Kev]

Heavyweights reach a critical mass... the big ones tend to either be shite or plain out of shape. There simply isn't enough legitimate big men to need a whole new division.

I agree... I really do but I just feel that the bridge between Light Heavyweight And Heavyweight isn't facilitated by Cruiserweight at all.

Light Heavyweights don't hardly ever move upto Cruiserweight and Cruiserweights don't ever fight at Heavyweight.

Of course Haye has kicked off a little trend but I bet that'll fizzle out as soon as Ademek gets his blocked knocked of by KitschkoTBA

Completely untrue. Michael Spinks, Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones Jr, James Toney, David Haye, Tomasz Adamek, Jean Marc Mormeck, even Antonio Tarver have all had heavyweight fights and 5 of them have won world titles, although Toney didn't keep his.

The heavyweight limit is already very different and much higher from what it used to be and is essentially already superheavyweight.

Rocky Marciano, Joe Luis and Jack Dempsey all weighed under 200lbs and would be fighting in the cruiserweight division in today's weight limits.

Considering they are three of the top 10 greatest heavies of all time, arguably top 5 it's really hard to justify having another two weight divisions above them.

[Spicoli]

It's the allure (big name money ?!) of the hvy division that ensures Cruiser is mostly looked at as a jumping off point. Few have ever been content to end career at cruiser. I don't attribute the shortcomings to size as much as skills, being long in career or lifestyle etc. Cooper 'could' have been a superb cruiser but def would have still hit the pipe? Ruiz had a fast none clinchy style at cruiser but was yng with 'skill' to fall back on at hvy. Moorer skipped division completely from lt hvy and WAS a capable hvy, his chin was just made of matchsticks.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

light heavyweights don't hardly ever move upto cruiserweight and cruiserweights don't ever fight at heavyweight.

completely untrue. Michael spinks, evander holyfield, roy jones jr, james toney, david haye, tomasz adamek, jean marc mormeck, even antonio tarver have all had heavyweight fights and 5 of them have won world titles, although toney didn't keep his.

Okay so there's a few but come off it Bil. Compare that list to how many Featherweights who have moved up to Lightweight... Or Lightweights who have moved up to Welterweight... Superfeatherwights to Welterweights even!

You see what I mean?

What Im talking about is making guys who weigh around 200-220lbs more accessible to smaller men... Light Heavyweights and such (like they used to be with the likes of Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe, Billy Con, Harry Greb, George Carpintier etc), while keeping the 210+ monsters out of it.

Now with that in mind, review your list:

Roy Jones:
He had just one fight at Heavyweight. Against John Ruiz, a man on my list.
He would of been annihilated by Bowe, Lewis or the Klitschko's.
James Toney:
If he had an intermidiate weight limit, he would of fought at it for as long as his gut could hold out.
He would of been annihilated by Bowe, Lewis or the Klitschko's.
Jean Marc Mormeck:
Can't make 200 anymore and is gunnng for David Haye. Fact
He would of been annihilated by Bowe, Lewis or the Klitschko's.
David Haye:
Another one who was tight at the Weight. He would of fought at 210lbs if he could.
He would of been annihilated by Bowe, Lewis or the Klitschko's.
Tomasz Ademek:
He would of fought at 210lbs if he could.
He would of been annihilated by Bowe, Lewis and WILL be Klitschko's.
Evander Holyfield
Although admittedly Holyfield is the only genuine exception to the rule he DID go 1-1-3 with Bowe & Lewis and would probably fair worse with the Klitschko's.
Michael Spinks & Michael Moorer (who you missed btw):
Both jumped the Cruiserweight division probably because it was shit (but it could be so much better!!!)
Both would of been annihilated by Bowe, Lewis or the Klitschko's.

the heavyweight limit is already very different and much higher from what it used to be and is essentially already superheavyweight.

In Olympic Boxing terms yes but most boxers weight much more as a Pro Boxer than they do as an Amateur. It is very rare that you see a boxer fighting at the weight that they won their amateur medal at (in and around the heavyweight limit).

Rocky marciano, joe luis and jack dempsey all weighed under 200lbs and would be fighting in the cruiserweight division in today's weight limits.

And that would be completely appropriate because all three of those would get anihalated by the likes of Bowe, Lewis & the Klitschko's

Considering they are three of the top 10 greatest heavies of all time, arguably top 5 it's really hard to justify having another two weight divisions above them.

It's called moving with the times Bill. Rocky Marciano weighed over 189lbs like once in his whole career. You could even probably count on your three fingers how many times Louis, Dempsey & Marciano fought guys who weighed heavier than 215lbs

It's funny you should mention those guys though Bill because they fought the likes of Walcott, Ezzard, Conn, Carpentier... Because it has to be argued that for these tiny opponents, the heavyweight division would be unaccessible... Simply because these days, the majority of men fight at 220+

The gap still needs bridging Bil.

[brocktonblockbust]

a super HW division would totaly devalue boxing golden egg ie the HW title for ever.

you mean boxing's ROTTEN egg.

[nikola_ganchev]

Once again this thread. We don't need no more weight classes. We don't need so many belts. What we need is better educated, faster, better condiotioned, natural heavyweights. We don't need mexican/european heavy bags. Why they still think that boxing from their frond leg with this earmuffins and big bellys will make them successful? The wey this tall guys are boxing now is so disadvantages if the shorter goys box properly against them! Why no one is saying Tyson was in disadvantage against Golota? Tyson is short! But he uses his hight in his advantage. It's the same with all oldtimers. Back than there were alot of big guys too which were better schoold and what do they dominated the devision? No but all the oder guys were boxing correctly! Modern examles are James Toney and David Tua. Did Rahman(guy who KOed Lewis) beat badly Tua or Toney or was the oder way around. Or Samuel Petter destroyed Toney? Or Lewis did something to Tua? First they both have some skills and take full advantage of their posture and second they are both cripled by their weight! But they weren dominated by no one evan with their hights of 1.78 m (5 ft 10 in) Tua, 5 ft 9 in (1.75 m) Toney or Mike Tyson Height: 5'11" (180 cm) ! This are midjits and they have no chance in heavyweight my A**!
When you are short and you goes down with what will this 5 meter hight nonmoving non courdinated punks hit you? If he reaches down to touch you he is dead. What he throws have no power on it. The only thing what he can do is run all night long and clinch you when you go inside to get him! And here is tha magic simply don't go inside!
Once again i am going to say it:Being heigher is really advantageos against mexican punching bags who thinks that going with this earmuffins straight in can do something! But if you go into proper stance into crouch they are in deep trouble! You can move and STEP with your punches. This means that you have the oportunity to kiss him for good night when it need be.At the end in horizontal position we are all the same hight...Yes it takes sometime to lean but the benefits are really serious!

[Mar]

The absolute last thing this sport needs is another division with more belts, more bullshit and more clutter. Hey i can tell you right now how to fix the division. Have these guys quit bitching about the klitchko's and spend that energy and time figuring out how to beat them. I know a whole lot of people hate them but i find it amazing that these two have completly shut down a division...shit to the point now we want to make another division that hopefully they won't play in. Screw that don't let these guys off the hook. Fight and beat the best......not avoid them cause you can't.

[El Kabong]

Moorer's chin wasn't horrible, he went toe to toe with Holyfield and took a hellacious shot from Foreman and with his bad attitude and his refusal to stay in shape it shortened his career.

[Spicoli]

Moorer's chin wasn't horrible, he went toe to toe with Holyfield and took a hellacious shot from Foreman and with his bad attitude and his refusal to stay in shape it shortened his career.

He got dinged by more then a few and yeah he had a shit attitude but was prone to getting wobbled. He went toe to toe with Evander, when? 2nd fight and got bounced like a ball?

[El Kabong]

The scary thing is Brock, that 3 time gold medalist Felix Savon weighed under or at 201 for his career and not only did he 1 punch KO David Tua, he was 6'5.....so I'm just going to go ahead and say "you can't legislate fairness" some big guys fight great, some are bums, but they are all human and can all be beaten.

[brocktonblockbust]

"big" guys like Clay/Ali (for his time) look how big he looked against Folley, Cooper, Quarry, Patterson, Marciano, Frazier (who were the traditional heavy size)......then Ali starts getting equalled or dwarfed in size by the mid-70s by Norton, Wepner, Foreman, Bugner, Holmes, etc in weight and size......my point is that Ali used to weigh-in at what, 214 in his prime (not talking bout that young kid Clay who coulda made supermiddleweight practically!)....BUT guys who weighed in at 230 IN SHAPE----how could they realistically lose 20 pounds and be effective at 210? I think it would sap their strength/endurance----look what happnened to Bowe when he rematched Golota, he came in light as a feather and was shot by round 4. Can anyone imagine Lennox Lewis, Michael Grant, David Tua trying to make 210--------NFW!!!!!!!! I support a SuperHeavyweight Division. Calculate a boxer's SuperHeavy percentage like a baseball player's Slugging percentage. Height/reach/weight all averaged in.

[Spicoli]

Just rewatched that one yeh, Bowe v Golota 2 . Sad really. Think a case of Bowe coming in the weight he was at very best (vs Holyfield 1) but pure imposter in regards to what was left. He didn't do himself any good balooning up though...never consistent. Think Ali was more a steady progression into weight...its the rage now and especially at 200 range, the talk of 'when do you jump up to hvy' etc. Still looked at as the money division and lifeblood of the sport , which blows me away. The bigger is no where near the better in many cases.

[brocktonblockbust]

i agree but sometimes bigger makes it impossible to overcome. Take Quarry or Frazier----they could never beat Foreman even if they fought 100 times. Could Marciano have beaten Foreman or Lewis? Would Marciano vs Lennox be a fair fight?? NFW!!!!!!!