I am attempting to join the ARMY.

[Ghost]

You would beat your kid for expressing an entirely valid viewpoint?

Hornfinger has said nothing particularly controversial. Sure, he could have said it with more tact, but ultimately he is quite right. The Vietnam war WAS built upon a deception. The Iraq war was again based upon deception. How dare Hornfinger suggest that those that went there to serve were in some way complicit in the deception and ultimately helped to kill many millions of people. Sure, they may have been ignorant or else just didn't care about the politics, but they still partook in a dishonest war effort. Are you suggesting that he is making that up and is out of line for suggesting that this was the case?

But sure, whip off the belt and beat the kid who reads between the lines. Gotta make those darn kids learn some respect!

You do not listen miles, you see the word beating and you get all rightist.

The words "Disrespect" and "Common Courtesy" just slip by or having no meaning in this thread. There are no valid reasons for "Disrespect", do not care how old you are. Hiding under "My Opinion" is nothing more than a cope out (Excuse's are like ass holes, every one has one and they use it often). But that's ok, he's young. So are the whole Generation Y, you know, the give it to me, do not deserve it but I want it and I want now generation. Fuck every one else so long as my opinion is heard generation.

What ever happen to family values? Not here, not now. Not in this time.

I am glad I am getting to age when my back on all the excuse's people throw out there and just walk away from it. The ignore button works find here, and I'm getting good use out of it.

BTW, miles, nothing personal in there towards you.

[Gandalf]

You would beat your kid for expressing an entirely valid viewpoint?

Hornfinger has said nothing particularly controversial. Sure, he could have said it with more tact, but ultimately he is quite right. The Vietnam war WAS built upon a deception. The Iraq war was again based upon deception. How dare Hornfinger suggest that those that went there to serve were in some way complicit in the deception and ultimately helped to kill many millions of people. Sure, they may have been ignorant or else just didn't care about the politics, but they still partook in a dishonest war effort. Are you suggesting that he is making that up and is out of line for suggesting that this was the case?

But sure, whip off the belt and beat the kid who reads between the lines. Gotta make those darn kids learn some respect!

You do not listen miles, you see the word beating and you get all rightist.

The words "Disrespect" and "Common Courtesy" just slip by or having no meaning in this thread. There are no valid reasons for "Disrespect", do not care how old you are. Hiding under "My Opinion" is nothing more than a cope out (Excuse's are like ass holes, every one has one and they use it often). But that's ok, he's young. So are the whole Generation Y, you know, the give it to me, do not deserve it but I want it and I want now generation. Fuck every one else so long as my opinion is heard generation.

What ever happen to family values? Not here, not now. Not in this time.

I am glad I am getting to age when my back on all the excuse's people throw out there and just walk away from it. The ignore button works find here, and I'm getting good use out of it.

BTW, miles, nothing personal in there towards you.

No, it's fine and I can see where you are coming from. As someone who believes very strongly in free speech, I just believe that you have to let people have their platform and more so if they do have valid concerns. If I was a parent nothing could make me prouder than to have a child challenge me on my viewpoints and disagree with me....just so long as they could actually back it up. Otherwise, I would be a bit let down. Maybe then it's time for the big wooden spoon!

When it comes to something like Vietnam, that is where I actually regard someone like Ali as a bit of a hero. He believed it was wrong and said no. There is no greater stand that one can make. In that sense I see where Hornfinger is coming from, if more people had that awareness, courage and sense of conviction then it wouldn't be so easy to start these irrational and awful wars and I mean that for the loss of life on both sides. There was never any need for it.

I saw the other words that you used, but clearly the beating of a child element stood out. I agree that it is better to show respect and courtesy (though I have faltered from time to time ), but I can't get too upset about the points Hornfinger has made. Generally speaking they are good ones, but I can see how they could piss some people off.

When it comes to things like family values and the like I am actually fairly traditional myself. I present myself as a bit of a left wing atheist snob, but when it comes to homelife I am pretty conservative. In person I am actually very quiet and am very considerate of other people. I kind of expect others to behave the same way. I guess when it comes to the internet though people can sometimes forget their manners and we all do it. Perhaps it's the nature of the beast.

I'm putting the monocle back on and am going to get some fruit jellies. Oh, the joy of having real teeth!

[Gandalf]

I've kind of responded to those points in my reply to Ghost, GB....so don't feel shortchanged that I am not giving you one of my typically longwinded replies.

[Ghost]

I've kind of responded to those points in my reply to Ghost, GB....so don't feel shortchanged that I am not giving you one of my typically longwinded replies.

Awwww go ahead, you know you want to.

[Gandalf]

I've kind of responded to those points in my reply to Ghost, GB....so don't feel shortchanged that I am not giving you one of my typically longwinded replies.

Awwww go ahead, you know you want to.

Nah, can't be bothered!

To be honest, I kind of agree with you both about the derailing aspects. But in terms of the actual content of his arguments I just think that he is fairly sound. No big deal. I'm as drawn in as I am going to get and that's quite enough.

[boozeboxer]

I believe No Contest started a thread stating he was trying to join the Army.

Many different beliefs on whether that is a good or prudent decision.

He in reality has asked the forum members, so I believe Hornfinger owed it to his fellow poster to state that he believed it was a waste of time.

The bottom line is Hornfinger is of an opinion similar of many people you will encounter, whether they tell you or not. I think it is only fair he would be told this before he joined.

If this is only a puff piece giving slaps-on-the-back and attaboy's, he might as well join an Army Forum.


Before someone gives their life away they ought to be able to have several idea's given. Just because some dude in Texas who is life-long military thinks it is a great idea, doesn't automatically invalidate other opinions on it.

[VictorCharlie]

I believe No Contest started a thread stating he was trying to join the Army.

Many different beliefs on whether that is a good or prudent decision.

He in reality has asked the forum members, so I believe Hornfinger owed it to his fellow poster to state that he believed it was a waste of time.

The bottom line is Hornfinger is of an opinion similar of many people you will encounter, whether they tell you or not. I think it is only fair he would be told this before he joined.

If this is only a puff piece giving slaps-on-the-back and attaboy's, he might as well join an Army Forum.


Before someone gives their life away they ought to be able to have several idea's given. Just because some dude in Texas who is life-long military thinks it is a great idea, doesn't automatically invalidate other opinions on it.

That guy is an asshole anyway

In all seriousness Booze is correct that joining any military service is a serious decision and shouldn't be taken lightly. For one, the military is more than just a job it is a lifestyle and people need to think long and hard if they can conform to it b/c if they can't their time in uniform will be unpleasant. Two, while a very small percent of the U.S. military has ever had to actually pull the trigger it is something to be considered. No Contest should put serious thought into how he feels about the prospect of using lethal force. Its not cool or glamorous and I have never nor have I ever allowed my Soldiers to act like they just scored a game winning goal. In the end it is really impossible to know how you will react in the instant and afterward. Lastly, the military doesn't create foreign policy they execute it. So No Contest should be aware that he might be told to go to a foreign country for a mission he doesn't really believe in. Honestly I've never sat around thinking a whole lot about what the over arching strategic meaning of my deployment was. If I wasn't in uniform, some other guy would be leading the same eight Soldiers I am, so I'd just as soon it be me. I didn't address these issues in my first post b/c quite frankly it is my experience that people have reconciled them before they step into an Army recruiters office. Hornfinger's isn't wrong to challenge No Contests desire to serve I just wish he would have shown a little more class in doing it. Lastly military member's roles are often equated just to the conflicts we see on the news. As I pointed out earlier there is a tremendous amount of real service and humanitarian aid carried out that has nothing to do with putting lead down range. If you are a victim of a horrific natural disaster around the world there is a good chance that a U.S. service member is somewhere nearby helping people.

By the way this thread has gotten really strange.