I am attempting to join the ARMY.

[VictorCharlie]

I believe No Contest started a thread stating he was trying to join the Army.

Many different beliefs on whether that is a good or prudent decision.

He in reality has asked the forum members, so I believe Hornfinger owed it to his fellow poster to state that he believed it was a waste of time.

The bottom line is Hornfinger is of an opinion similar of many people you will encounter, whether they tell you or not. I think it is only fair he would be told this before he joined.

If this is only a puff piece giving slaps-on-the-back and attaboy's, he might as well join an Army Forum.


Before someone gives their life away they ought to be able to have several idea's given. Just because some dude in Texas who is life-long military thinks it is a great idea, doesn't automatically invalidate other opinions on it.

That guy is an asshole anyway

In all seriousness Booze is correct that joining any military service is a serious decision and shouldn't be taken lightly. For one, the military is more than just a job it is a lifestyle and people need to think long and hard if they can conform to it b/c if they can't their time in uniform will be unpleasant. Two, while a very small percent of the U.S. military has ever had to actually pull the trigger it is something to be considered. No Contest should put serious thought into how he feels about the prospect of using lethal force. Its not cool or glamorous and I have never nor have I ever allowed my Soldiers to act like they just scored a game winning goal. In the end it is really impossible to know how you will react in the instant and afterward. Lastly, the military doesn't create foreign policy they execute it. So No Contest should be aware that he might be told to go to a foreign country for a mission he doesn't really believe in. Honestly I've never sat around thinking a whole lot about what the over arching strategic meaning of my deployment was. If I wasn't in uniform, some other guy would be leading the same eight Soldiers I am, so I'd just as soon it be me. I didn't address these issues in my first post b/c quite frankly it is my experience that people have reconciled them before they step into an Army recruiters office. Hornfinger's isn't wrong to challenge No Contests desire to serve I just wish he would have shown a little more class in doing it. Lastly military member's roles are often equated just to the conflicts we see on the news. As I pointed out earlier there is a tremendous amount of real service and humanitarian aid carried out that has nothing to do with putting lead down range. If you are a victim of a horrific natural disaster around the world there is a good chance that a U.S. service member is somewhere nearby helping people.

By the way this thread has gotten really strange.

[Gandalf]

Totally, this thread has become extremely weird. I have managed to get embroiled in a thread about the army without even giving my opinions on that subject. I don't know what's going on. Parental disciplinary strategies appear to have been the very next thing on my agenda along with a desire to see Hornfinger follow through with the kind of arguments that I promised myself I would abstain from. But yes, it has become downright strange.

[boozeboxer]

First, Miles, I don't see how SALT III is relevant at all.

Second, VictorCharlie, although the military doesn't make foreign policy--they implement it, I think it is very naive answer to disregard what the US military foreign policy has done in the past before joining. Just because you don't make the policy, if you sign up for something that clearly has hundreds of years history---you should at least be aware of that.

In an obviously extreme example: if I worked at an abortion clinic and mopped the floors---I don't make the policy there I just implement it---clearly I am at least in some way being complacent about the situation.

[Hornfinger]

I think the thing I find most disturbing about this thread, is that when someone decides they want to go out and kill people for a living we should all pat them on the back and say how brave they are.

But the person who says 'that's not a good idea, you can do a lot better with your life' is the one that is 'rude' and 'trolling' and an 'asshole'

From where I'm sat, I'm not the one thats brainwashed. I'm glad that miles and boozeboxer are also talking some sence here.

[VictorCharlie]

I think the thing I find most disturbing about this thread, is that when someone decides they want to go out and kill people for a living we should all pat them on the back and say how brave they are.

But the person who says 'that's not a good idea, you can do a lot better with your life' is the one that is 'rude' and 'trolling' and an 'asshole'

From where I'm sat, I'm not the one thats brainwashed. I'm glad that miles and boozeboxer are also talking some sence here.

I guess I do not see joining the military service and wanting to go kill people as being one and the same. As I've stated before very few service members have actually used lethal force. No Contest could just as easy be a clerk and only pick up his rifle 3-4 times a year to qualify.

[Hornfinger]

I think the thing I find most disturbing about this thread, is that when someone decides they want to go out and kill people for a living we should all pat them on the back and say how brave they are.

But the person who says 'that's not a good idea, you can do a lot better with your life' is the one that is 'rude' and 'trolling' and an 'asshole'

From where I'm sat, I'm not the one thats brainwashed. I'm glad that miles and boozeboxer are also talking some sence here.

I guess I do not see joining the military service and wanting to go kill people as being one and the same. As I've stated before very few service members have actually used lethal force. No Contest could just as easy be a clerk and only pick up his rifle 3-4 times a year to qualify.

So go and be clerk somewhere else.

Look correct me if I'm wrong but on an american football team it's rare that the quarter back scores the touchdown or kicks the field goal. He's still instrumental in scoring the points though right?

Get what I'm saying?

Of course you don't look at joining the military in that way. If the majority of the population did there would be much fewer people willing to sign up, fewer wars would happen. That wouldn't be good for the arms manufacturers or the military industrial complex.

[VictorCharlie]

I think the thing I find most disturbing about this thread, is that when someone decides they want to go out and kill people for a living we should all pat them on the back and say how brave they are.

But the person who says 'that's not a good idea, you can do a lot better with your life' is the one that is 'rude' and 'trolling' and an 'asshole'

From where I'm sat, I'm not the one thats brainwashed. I'm glad that miles and boozeboxer are also talking some sence here.

I guess I do not see joining the military service and wanting to go kill people as being one and the same. As I've stated before very few service members have actually used lethal force. No Contest could just as easy be a clerk and only pick up his rifle 3-4 times a year to qualify.

So go and be clerk somewhere else.

Look correct me if I'm wrong but on an american football team it's rare that the quarter back scores the touchdown or kicks the field goal. He's still instrumental in scoring the points though right?

Get what I'm saying?

Of course you don't look at joining the military in that way. If the majority of the population did there would be much fewer people willing to sign up, fewer wars would happen. That wouldn't be good for the arms manufacturers or the military industrial complex.

There are only two people who touch the football everyplay. The center and the QB. The QB is instrumental on just about everying scoring play/drive so the analogy doesn't really work. Handling a battalion's finance paper work does not really equate to being the one indespensable cog in the nation's war machine.

I got a good friend in the Navy who has not spent a day in Iraq or Afghanistan but worked in Pakistan doing the flood relief, Haiti doing medical evacs and is now in Japan doing god knows what. My point is there is a huge amount of good being done by service members yet you seem totally fixated on the "every Soldier is a blood thirst killer"

[VictorCharlie]

First, Miles, I don't see how SALT III is relevant at all.

Second, VictorCharlie, although the military doesn't make foreign policy--they implement it, I think it is very naive answer to disregard what the US military foreign policy has done in the past before joining. Just because you don't make the policy, if you sign up for something that clearly has hundreds of years history---you should at least be aware of that.

In an obviously extreme example: if I worked at an abortion clinic and mopped the floors---I don't make the policy there I just implement it---clearly I am at least in some way being complacent about the situation.

Maybe I wasn't clear earlier, but I essentially agree with your post. Yes, if you join to a certain extent you are at the very least giving a modicum of endorsement. But how far back and deep does that go? I joined in 2004, so am I complicit in the Vietnam War and everything that went with it? If No Contest joins in 2011 is he endorsing the Iraq War? Not really sure there is a cut and dry answer. Some people just want to serve in the military, I don't think this equates to a lock step endorsement of every military action prior to, during and after their service.

[boozeboxer]

First, Miles, I don't see how SALT III is relevant at all.

Second, VictorCharlie, although the military doesn't make foreign policy--they implement it, I think it is very naive answer to disregard what the US military foreign policy has done in the past before joining. Just because you don't make the policy, if you sign up for something that clearly has hundreds of years history---you should at least be aware of that.

In an obviously extreme example: if I worked at an abortion clinic and mopped the floors---I don't make the policy there I just implement it---clearly I am at least in some way being complacent about the situation.

Maybe I wasn't clear earlier, but I essentially agree with your post. Yes, if you join to a certain extent you are at the very least giving a modicum of endorsement. But how far back and deep does that go? I joined in 2004, so am I complicit in the Vietnam War and everything that went with it? If No Contest joins in 2011 is he endorsing the Iraq War? Not really sure there is a cut and dry answer. Some people just want to serve in the military, I don't think this equates to a lock step endorsement of every military action prior to, during and after their service.

I actually think we are pretty close on this one. You guys have a good weekend!

[Andre]

Yep lets wraps this up.

[Andre]