p4p, legacy, and resume which one takes it? PBF,Pac, RJJ

[IamInuit]

Honestly, I can't see RJJ beating Hagler, Monzon, Ray Robinson, Archie Moore, Billy Conn, Bob Foster, Jake LaMotta...Beating Tony Thornton, Clinton Woods, Jorge Vaca, even a big, dumb slow guy like John Ruiz doesn't make you a superman. Its easy to look all-everything against guys that can't fight to begin with and then come into the ring trying not to lose too bad instead of trying to win. Against guys like those mentioned above he'd be fighting boxers that were skilled, used to controlling tough opponents, and they would definitely try to win.
The key to beating Jones was to punch when he was punching, which good fighters would do, and, bottom line, I believe Jones always had a weak chin and that he lacked the heart, should he find himself in a tough fight.

Jones was a freak of nature. He had what I call third eye syndrome kind of like Barry Sanders or Wayne Gretzky. They know what you are going to do before you do. The key that you have described to beat Roy has a fundamental problem that is two fold. One, the opponent had no idea when Jones was going to punch and where it was coming from. Secondly, even if you could sense the “when”, he would have already landed.

Odd that you would mention the likes of Thorton, Woods and Vaca but leave out Hopkins, Toney, Hill and Griffin or his shut out of McCallum. He not only beat them but made it look pedestrian. Perhaps you’re right in that he always had a shaky chin but the problem is nobody was able to check it.

Theirs only two people on your list of guys to beat Roy that may have a shot and that’s Robinson and Hagler at 160 however I think he exploits Haglers plodding style better then Leonard did. Outside shot on Calzaghe at 168 but I see no other in the history of that division and most likely Ezzard Charles at 175.

[JazMerkin]

Honestly, I can't see RJJ beating Hagler, Monzon, Ray Robinson, Archie Moore, Billy Conn, Bob Foster, Jake LaMotta...Beating Tony Thornton, Clinton Woods, Jorge Vaca, even a big, dumb slow guy like John Ruiz doesn't make you a superman. Its easy to look all-everything against guys that can't fight to begin with and then come into the ring trying not to lose too bad instead of trying to win. Against guys like those mentioned above he'd be fighting boxers that were skilled, used to controlling tough opponents, and they would definitely try to win.
The key to beating Jones was to punch when he was punching, which good fighters would do, and, bottom line, I believe Jones always had a weak chin and that he lacked the heart, should he find himself in a tough fight.

Jones was a freak of nature. He had what I call third eye syndrome kind of like Barry Sanders or Wayne Gretzky. They know what you are going to do before you do. The key that you have described to beat Roy has a fundamental problem that is two fold. One, the opponent had no idea when Jones was going to punch and where it was coming from. Secondly, even if you could sense the “when”, he would have already landed.

Odd that you would mention the likes of Thorton, Woods and Vaca but leave out Hopkins, Toney, Hill and Griffin or his shut out of McCallum. He not only beat them but made it look pedestrian. Perhaps you’re right in that he always had a shaky chin but the problem is nobody was able to check it.

Theirs only two people on your list of guys to beat Roy that may have a shot and that’s Robinson and Hagler at 160 however I think he exploits Haglers plodding style better then Leonard did. Outside shot on Calzaghe at 168 but I see no other in the history of that division and most likely Ezzard Charles at 175.

Got to disagree there man. I think Bob Foster & Archie Moore would both only have to land once on Jones. I also think that most of the guys from further back had far more intuition for the game than almost any active fighters now (PBF, B-Hop & maybe JMM excepted). An example would be that Miguel Cotto is considered a pretty skillful fighter these days & yet Jake LaMotta had a similar style & was considered a brawler. The skill levels were definitely higher in the main. Saying that I'm not saying I'd say that any of those guys would definitely beat him, he's even match-up for anyone at his weight in history. I'd probably be pretty confident of Charles being able to beat him but that's about it.

[IamInuit]

Honestly, I can't see RJJ beating Hagler, Monzon, Ray Robinson, Archie Moore, Billy Conn, Bob Foster, Jake LaMotta...Beating Tony Thornton, Clinton Woods, Jorge Vaca, even a big, dumb slow guy like John Ruiz doesn't make you a superman. Its easy to look all-everything against guys that can't fight to begin with and then come into the ring trying not to lose too bad instead of trying to win. Against guys like those mentioned above he'd be fighting boxers that were skilled, used to controlling tough opponents, and they would definitely try to win.
The key to beating Jones was to punch when he was punching, which good fighters would do, and, bottom line, I believe Jones always had a weak chin and that he lacked the heart, should he find himself in a tough fight.

Jones was a freak of nature. He had what I call third eye syndrome kind of like Barry Sanders or Wayne Gretzky. They know what you are going to do before you do. The key that you have described to beat Roy has a fundamental problem that is two fold. One, the opponent had no idea when Jones was going to punch and where it was coming from. Secondly, even if you could sense the “when”, he would have already landed.

Odd that you would mention the likes of Thorton, Woods and Vaca but leave out Hopkins, Toney, Hill and Griffin or his shut out of McCallum. He not only beat them but made it look pedestrian. Perhaps you’re right in that he always had a shaky chin but the problem is nobody was able to check it.

Theirs only two people on your list of guys to beat Roy that may have a shot and that’s Robinson and Hagler at 160 however I think he exploits Haglers plodding style better then Leonard did. Outside shot on Calzaghe at 168 but I see no other in the history of that division and most likely Ezzard Charles at 175.

Got to disagree there man. I think Bob Foster & Archie Moore would both only have to land once on Jones. I also think that most of the guys from further back had far more intuition for the game than almost any active fighters now (PBF, B-Hop & maybe JMM excepted). An example would be that Miguel Cotto is considered a pretty skillful fighter these days & yet Jake LaMotta had a similar style & was considered a brawler. The skill levels were definitely higher in the main. Saying that I'm not saying I'd say that any of those guys would definitely beat him, he's even match-up for anyone at his weight in history. I'd probably be pretty confident of Charles being able to beat him but that's about it.

That’s cool. I think Spinks might have also given him a good go and perhaps a few guys from Murders row besides Moore like Burley. Greb also at 160. Langford would also be a tough fight from 160 to 175. Not many guys from the past would have the athletic ability or close to the same speed of Roy. Have to disagree generally speaking on the skill level of the past vs the present. What they did have back then was more heart and hunger. The interesting thing about Roy is that he never developed a jab. He did not need it which is incredible when one thinks about it. The only time he really used it was when he fought the Paz.

Thanks for the reply.

Cheers.

[JazMerkin]

Honestly, I can't see RJJ beating Hagler, Monzon, Ray Robinson, Archie Moore, Billy Conn, Bob Foster, Jake LaMotta...Beating Tony Thornton, Clinton Woods, Jorge Vaca, even a big, dumb slow guy like John Ruiz doesn't make you a superman. Its easy to look all-everything against guys that can't fight to begin with and then come into the ring trying not to lose too bad instead of trying to win. Against guys like those mentioned above he'd be fighting boxers that were skilled, used to controlling tough opponents, and they would definitely try to win.
The key to beating Jones was to punch when he was punching, which good fighters would do, and, bottom line, I believe Jones always had a weak chin and that he lacked the heart, should he find himself in a tough fight.

Jones was a freak of nature. He had what I call third eye syndrome kind of like Barry Sanders or Wayne Gretzky. They know what you are going to do before you do. The key that you have described to beat Roy has a fundamental problem that is two fold. One, the opponent had no idea when Jones was going to punch and where it was coming from. Secondly, even if you could sense the “when”, he would have already landed.

Odd that you would mention the likes of Thorton, Woods and Vaca but leave out Hopkins, Toney, Hill and Griffin or his shut out of McCallum. He not only beat them but made it look pedestrian. Perhaps you’re right in that he always had a shaky chin but the problem is nobody was able to check it.

Theirs only two people on your list of guys to beat Roy that may have a shot and that’s Robinson and Hagler at 160 however I think he exploits Haglers plodding style better then Leonard did. Outside shot on Calzaghe at 168 but I see no other in the history of that division and most likely Ezzard Charles at 175.

Got to disagree there man. I think Bob Foster & Archie Moore would both only have to land once on Jones. I also think that most of the guys from further back had far more intuition for the game than almost any active fighters now (PBF, B-Hop & maybe JMM excepted). An example would be that Miguel Cotto is considered a pretty skillful fighter these days & yet Jake LaMotta had a similar style & was considered a brawler. The skill levels were definitely higher in the main. Saying that I'm not saying I'd say that any of those guys would definitely beat him, he's even match-up for anyone at his weight in history. I'd probably be pretty confident of Charles being able to beat him but that's about it.

That’s cool. I think Spinks might have also given him a good go and perhaps a few guys from Murders row besides Moore like Burley. Greb also at 160. Langford would also be a tough fight from 160 to 175. Not many guys from the past would have the athletic ability or close to the same speed of Roy. Have to disagree generally speaking on the skill level of the past vs the present. What they did have back then was more heart and hunger. The interesting thing about Roy is that he never developed a jab. He did not need it which is incredible when one thinks about it. The only time he really used it was when he fought the Paz.

Thanks for the reply.

Cheers.

Spinks was one I thought about, but then I struggle to see how he would cope with Roy's speed. He did never really need a jab, but then I wonder how much of a hindrance that would prove when faced with someone with similar athleticism to him.

I generally see much better fundamentals from most fighters then, with much less of a reliance on athletic gifts (obviously many athletic fighters have excellent fundamentals such as Mayweather & Donaire). The only two modern fighters who to me really are throwbacks in that way are Hopkins & Glen Johnson. In fact, it is the Johnson fight which leads me to think that Roy would have struggled with someone who had all the little niggles to their game allied with serious hunger like they used to then.

I'm sad to say I've not really seen enough footage of Langford & Greb to really say they would beat Jones.

[Pavlik]

Pac's ascension in weightclass was quite unique because his power was a factor whether he is fighting guys his size or in a "catchweight" which in my opinion is negligible because at fight night they rehydrate and becomes functionally bigger than Manny anways except ODLH. For me yes the 8 weightclasses matter and so does the 4 lineal titles. Good thing is Manny is not yet done

[IamInuit]

Pac's ascension in weightclass was quite unique because his power was a factor whether he is fighting guys his size or in a "catchweight" which in my opinion is negligible because at fight night they rehydrate and becomes functionally bigger than Manny anways except ODLH. For me yes the 8 weightclasses matter and so does the 4 lineal titles. Good thing is Manny is not yet done

No offense man but you can't be serious. At this level of the sport weight is a science. If their was nothing to it, then why ask for it? Armstrong didn't along with a litany of other fighters throughout history.
You want to call yourself p4p...then do it. Don't dictate to the 147 pound champion that he must make 145 in order to defend his own title. Thats insane and has zero to do with p4p.

[Julius Rain]

Pac's ascension in weightclass was quite unique because his power was a factor whether he is fighting guys his size or in a "catchweight" which in my opinion is negligible because at fight night they rehydrate and becomes functionally bigger than Manny anways except ODLH. For me yes the 8 weightclasses matter and so does the 4 lineal titles. Good thing is Manny is not yet done

No offense man but you can't be serious. At this level of the sport weight is a science. If their was nothing to it, then why ask for it? Armstrong didn't along with a litany of other fighters throughout history.
You want to call yourself p4p...then do it. Don't dictate to the 147 pound champion that he must make 145 in order to defend his own title. Thats insane and has zero to do with p4p.

Do you think Cotto would have won if the fight had been at 147 instead of 145?

[mafiajoey]

Stinking PacTards run this site........So if Floyd beats Pac let me guess you still rate Pac higher cause he had all those great catch weight , Floyd left over, and weight drain fights. He beats his competition at the scales. Can we have a HUGE ASTERISK or maybe we take Floyd out lol Because If we take out the HGH, STEROIDS, PED'S and other bullshit Roy and Pac take and or took then who's left. So just like the Barry Bonds ball sitting in Cooperstown its a matter of time before Pac get's the asterisk oh but wait you guys think it's ok Roy did it and it's ok Pac does it and Barry and Mark....but wait you won't put an asterisk by Pac because you guys forgave Margarito too so as soon as Pac loses to a real fighter not a washed up weight drained bum who WAS good at one time then we will see these forums turn into a GHOST TOWN.

[mafiajoey]

Dude how do you guys lie to yourselves? Who the fuck actually get's excited for a Pac fight anymore? They are basically prescripted.....they win it before they fight....then they trick most of you brianless people. God this place is seeping Pac boys....Damn anyone know a Forum where they don't hang from Pacs shorts? One where boxing is boxing and it's skill and not one guy whos arrogant so everyone hates him and then another who tricks the casual fan and is a hoax. Where are the unbiased neutral people? I want to learn something from you guys but not how to hang onto Pacs sack. Maybe you guys are so uneducated and brainless that you believe this crap and overlook the truth about this hoax named Pac.......damn but you let Margarito and RJJ (steroids) off the hook too. You guys suck....as in the Pac Tards who own this site And F YOU if you ban me again cause you banned me in 2006 then sent me an email asking me to please come back. Oh but why was I banned? Cause I wasn't buying that Jermain Taylor bullshit HBO wanted to send down our throat like everyone does Pac. JT lost his fights to B Hop, he was exposed and if Pac ever fights someone I might get excited. I would get more excited to have him fight a bum then a washed up has been who gets beat at the scale or who was once washed up but then Pac and Roach change there mind when they decide to fight him Fuckloff!