Is Muhammad Ali an American Hero?

[El Kabong]

I don't knock Ali's skill or his impact on the sport and certainly he is a hero to some Americans....I am not one of them. I do not mind people seeing him as a hero, I mean he certainly seemed to stand against the war in Vietnam and being as big of an icon as he was at the time and with the rise of the "counter culture" hitting at the same time I think that has a lot to do with why people think so highly of him. For example, when (former news anchor, now host of HBO's Real Sports) Bryant Gumbel talked about the result of Ali-Frazier I he said "You got the feeling like the bad guys won"...now I for one take offense to that because Joe Frazier wasn't white, he wasn't pro-War, he wasn't "the anti-Ali" in anything other than his fighting style. But the cult of personality that is/was Ali branded Joe Frazier as some sort of collaborator with the status quo because he didn't talk trash, he didn't get involved in politics...and that's a shame for Joe because he basically shared the same view of the war with Ali but he just had a different personality is all...same with Foreman.

Joe Louis is an American hero to me...he served his country honorably, he opened doors for African-Americans to excell and acheive in areas they had previously been unable to participate in for example he got African-Americans onto the PGA tour, he worked towards getting the Armed Forces desegregated, and he won one of the most important fights of the last century.

What eats at me is that when the Counter Culture hit the trail blazers of the past (especially Joe Louis and Jesse Owens) were not trusted, they were not respected, and they were all but shunned by the very people they aimed to help clear a path for just because they had EARNED the respect of the average American of the previous generation. I just wish things hadn't happened that way...and after Louis' death I'm sure Ali felt the same way, I just think it's a shame that those two great champions couldn't have shared a greater bond.

[marbleheadmaui]

I don't knock Ali's skill or his impact on the sport and certainly he is a hero to some Americans....I am not one of them. I do not mind people seeing him as a hero, I mean he certainly seemed to stand against the war in Vietnam and being as big of an icon as he was at the time and with the rise of the "counter culture" hitting at the same time I think that has a lot to do with why people think so highly of him. For example, when (former news anchor, now host of HBO's Real Sports) Bryant Gumbel talked about the result of Ali-Frazier I he said "You got the feeling like the bad guys won"...now I for one take offense to that because Joe Frazier wasn't white, he wasn't pro-War, he wasn't "the anti-Ali" in anything other than his fighting style. But the cult of personality that is/was Ali branded Joe Frazier as some sort of collaborator with the status quo because he didn't talk trash, he didn't get involved in politics...and that's a shame for Joe because he basically shared the same view of the war with Ali but he just had a different personality is all...same with Foreman.

Joe Louis is an American hero to me...he served his country honorably, he opened doors for African-Americans to excell and acheive in areas they had previously been unable to participate in for example he got African-Americans onto the PGA tour, he worked towards getting the Armed Forces desegregated, and he won one of the most important fights of the last century.

What eats at me is that when the Counter Culture hit the trail blazers of the past (especially Joe Louis and Jesse Owens) were not trusted, they were not respected, and they were all but shunned by the very people they aimed to help clear a path for just because they had EARNED the respect of the average American of the previous generation. I just wish things hadn't happened that way...and after Louis' death I'm sure Ali felt the same way, I just think it's a shame that those two great champions couldn't have shared a greater bond.

This is a GREAT answer. Joe Louis is as big a hero as Ali was in my book.

[Violent Demise]

I don't knock Ali's skill or his impact on the sport and certainly he is a hero to some Americans....I am not one of them. I do not mind people seeing him as a hero, I mean he certainly seemed to stand against the war in Vietnam and being as big of an icon as he was at the time and with the rise of the "counter culture" hitting at the same time I think that has a lot to do with why people think so highly of him. For example, when (former news anchor, now host of HBO's Real Sports) Bryant Gumbel talked about the result of Ali-Frazier I he said "You got the feeling like the bad guys won"...now I for one take offense to that because Joe Frazier wasn't white, he wasn't pro-War, he wasn't "the anti-Ali" in anything other than his fighting style. But the cult of personality that is/was Ali branded Joe Frazier as some sort of collaborator with the status quo because he didn't talk trash, he didn't get involved in politics...and that's a shame for Joe because he basically shared the same view of the war with Ali but he just had a different personality is all...same with Foreman.

Joe Louis is an American hero to me...he served his country honorably, he opened doors for African-Americans to excell and acheive in areas they had previously been unable to participate in for example he got African-Americans onto the PGA tour, he worked towards getting the Armed Forces desegregated, and he won one of the most important fights of the last century.

What eats at me is that when the Counter Culture hit the trail blazers of the past (especially Joe Louis and Jesse Owens) were not trusted, they were not respected, and they were all but shunned by the very people they aimed to help clear a path for just because they had EARNED the respect of the average American of the previous generation. I just wish things hadn't happened that way...and after Louis' death I'm sure Ali felt the same way, I just think it's a shame that those two great champions couldn't have shared a greater bond.

This is a GREAT answer. Joe Louis is as big a hero as Ali was in my book.

Louis is a bigger hero than Ali. Ali calling Louis a sell out and his constant bad mouthing of him is one of the most fucked up things ever. It was totally uncalled for. And it's one of the reason I will always say fuck Ali

[Gandalf]

Ali was a great boxer and whilst I do admire him for refusing to allow himself to be drafted up, I do take issue with a number of his political and social stances. He was somewhat racist and his attitudes were demeaning to women.

I have no doubt that Ali is American and in turn I do think he is a hero of boxing. As a moral and social force, I think that it takes more than one principled stand against the draft to make a hero in those respects.

[Gandalf]

I don't knock Ali's skill or his impact on the sport and certainly he is a hero to some Americans....I am not one of them. I do not mind people seeing him as a hero, I mean he certainly seemed to stand against the war in Vietnam and being as big of an icon as he was at the time and with the rise of the "counter culture" hitting at the same time I think that has a lot to do with why people think so highly of him. For example, when (former news anchor, now host of HBO's Real Sports) Bryant Gumbel talked about the result of Ali-Frazier I he said "You got the feeling like the bad guys won"...now I for one take offense to that because Joe Frazier wasn't white, he wasn't pro-War, he wasn't "the anti-Ali" in anything other than his fighting style. But the cult of personality that is/was Ali branded Joe Frazier as some sort of collaborator with the status quo because he didn't talk trash, he didn't get involved in politics...and that's a shame for Joe because he basically shared the same view of the war with Ali but he just had a different personality is all...same with Foreman.

Joe Louis is an American hero to me...he served his country honorably, he opened doors for African-Americans to excell and acheive in areas they had previously been unable to participate in for example he got African-Americans onto the PGA tour, he worked towards getting the Armed Forces desegregated, and he won one of the most important fights of the last century.

What eats at me is that when the Counter Culture hit the trail blazers of the past (especially Joe Louis and Jesse Owens) were not trusted, they were not respected, and they were all but shunned by the very people they aimed to help clear a path for just because they had EARNED the respect of the average American of the previous generation. I just wish things hadn't happened that way...and after Louis' death I'm sure Ali felt the same way, I just think it's a shame that those two great champions couldn't have shared a greater bond.

This is a GREAT answer. Joe Louis is as big a hero as Ali was in my book.

Louis is a bigger hero than Ali. Ali calling Louis a sell out and his constant bad mouthing of him is one of the most fucked up things ever. It was totally uncalled for. And it's one of the reason I will always say fuck Ali

True, even bad Mike Tyson has always given his dues to the greats that went before him. Ali was an uncouth pottymouth in that regard. He gave little respect to anyone and would say whatever he could get away with. A total twat in that regard and yet we all look at him as some kind of hero. Look at the stick Mayorga gets on the boards today for the things he says. In terms of rhetoric, Mayorga is no worse than someone like Ali.

Ali does appear to have been somewhat put on a pedestal and the unsavoury aspects of his life have been dusted under the furniture.

[El Kabong]

True, even bad Mike Tyson has always given his dues to the greats that went before him. Ali was an uncouth pottymouth in that regard. He gave little respect to anyone and would say whatever he could get away with. A total twat in that regard and yet we all look at him as some kind of hero. Look at the stick Mayorga gets on the boards today for the things he says. In terms of rhetoric, Mayorga is no worse than someone like Ali.

Ali does appear to have been somewhat put on a pedestal and the unsavoury aspects of his life have been dusted under the furniture.

Yeah Tyson was very humble and respectful when it came to talking about the greats that came before him and that comes from Cus D'Mato really preaching the gospel of the greats to him and showing film of them.

One guy Ali did have respect for was Jack Johnson and I totally understand that because politics aside he was Ali before Ali ever took a breath much less stepped in the ring. Jack Johnson didn't have any agenda other than Jack Johnson...he was a real pioneer in that manner.

[brocktonblockbust]

I am American, and although I personally only routed for Ali one time (vs Holmes), I can say he certainly IS an American hero.

[El Kabong]

Ali was a cult of personality and extremely popular due to the counter culture. Much like a certain President of a certain country, people projected views on Ali...and the big reasons he was popular with the counter culture were: he was loud, charismatic, black, against the war, and not a Christian it made him seem more exotic and spiritual to the group of people who strayed from their parents views and beliefs to the generation before Rocky Marciano was a hero: quiet, humble, hard working, and had more of a grind it out fighting style. Ali also had a more free loose style which also helped him stand out.

Contrary to popular belief I've got no issues with Islam...but "The Nation" is a bunch of crooks and thugs and they are bat shit crazy, crazier than Scientologists!

[Mars_ax]

With Ali's current health condition being what it is, I know it's hard for me to feel any animosity toward him. Whatever "sins" he may have been guilty of in his youth should now be forgiven and long forgotten. I sincerely hope the man is able to enjoy what's left of his life in peace.

BTW, I think it's safe to say, if there is such a thing these days, Muhammad Ali is without any doubt, an American Hero, I know he is in my book.

[Dark Lord Al]

Question for the Americans.

It always puzzles me that a guy who chose a religion over fighting for his country , can be an American hero.
Some say it was against his NEW beliefs , many would find it hard not to think he was a coward.
I mean the guy chose the muslim faith which he wasnt even born into , then turned his back on his country.
The stuff of Hero's ?
No not for me , Joe Louis was a hero.
For me he will always be Cassius Clay.
Im interested in your views guys.

[IamInuit]

I am not American but if he's not then I don't know who would be. The term "hero" could mean many different things to many different people though.

[Mars_ax]

I am not American but if he's not then I don't know who would be. The term "hero" could mean many different things to many different people though.

I guess "hero's" are a little like beauty, it's in the eye of the beholder. In my humble opinion Ali is a hero to many Americans, and just guessing, i'd say if you ask most black Americans if Ali was a hero, the overwhelming majority would say yes.

I agree that "hero" could mean many different things to many different people, like someone said, hero's don't have to be perfect and none ever are.

[Beanflicker]

The question isn't if Muhammad Ali is an American hero, because you'd have to be crazy to argue otherwise.

The question is whether or not heshould be. I think he was overrated as a person.

[Hulk]

I don't knock Ali's skill or his impact on the sport and certainly he is a hero to some Americans....I am not one of them. I do not mind people seeing him as a hero, I mean he certainly seemed to stand against the war in Vietnam and being as big of an icon as he was at the time and with the rise of the "counter culture" hitting at the same time I think that has a lot to do with why people think so highly of him. For example, when (former news anchor, now host of HBO's Real Sports) Bryant Gumbel talked about the result of Ali-Frazier I he said "You got the feeling like the bad guys won"...now I for one take offense to that because Joe Frazier wasn't white, he wasn't pro-War, he wasn't "the anti-Ali" in anything other than his fighting style. But the cult of personality that is/was Ali branded Joe Frazier as some sort of collaborator with the status quo because he didn't talk trash, he didn't get involved in politics...and that's a shame for Joe because he basically shared the same view of the war with Ali but he just had a different personality is all...same with Foreman.

Joe Louis is an American hero to me...he served his country honorably, he opened doors for African-Americans to excell and acheive in areas they had previously been unable to participate in for example he got African-Americans onto the PGA tour, he worked towards getting the Armed Forces desegregated, and he won one of the most important fights of the last century.

What eats at me is that when the Counter Culture hit the trail blazers of the past (especially Joe Louis and Jesse Owens) were not trusted, they were not respected, and they were all but shunned by the very people they aimed to help clear a path for just because they had EARNED the respect of the average American of the previous generation. I just wish things hadn't happened that way...and after Louis' death I'm sure Ali felt the same way, I just think it's a shame that those two great champions couldn't have shared a greater bond.

This is a GREAT answer. Joe Louis is as big a hero as Ali was in my book.

Louis is a bigger hero than Ali. Ali calling Louis a sell out and his constant bad mouthing of him is one of the most fucked up things ever. It was totally uncalled for. And it's one of the reason I will always say fuck Ali

Yep Ali was a disrespectful cold hearted punk to Joe Louis.

Louis had a great comeback to him once tho.

Ali: "Joe all you ever did was fight the bum of the month."

Louis: "You woulda been one of the bums."

[Master]

I don't knock Ali's skill or his impact on the sport and certainly he is a hero to some Americans....I am not one of them. I do not mind people seeing him as a hero, I mean he certainly seemed to stand against the war in Vietnam and being as big of an icon as he was at the time and with the rise of the "counter culture" hitting at the same time I think that has a lot to do with why people think so highly of him. For example, when (former news anchor, now host of HBO's Real Sports) Bryant Gumbel talked about the result of Ali-Frazier I he said "You got the feeling like the bad guys won"...now I for one take offense to that because Joe Frazier wasn't white, he wasn't pro-War, he wasn't "the anti-Ali" in anything other than his fighting style. But the cult of personality that is/was Ali branded Joe Frazier as some sort of collaborator with the status quo because he didn't talk trash, he didn't get involved in politics...and that's a shame for Joe because he basically shared the same view of the war with Ali but he just had a different personality is all...same with Foreman.

Joe Louis is an American hero to me...he served his country honorably, he opened doors for African-Americans to excell and acheive in areas they had previously been unable to participate in for example he got African-Americans onto the PGA tour, he worked towards getting the Armed Forces desegregated, and he won one of the most important fights of the last century.

What eats at me is that when the Counter Culture hit the trail blazers of the past (especially Joe Louis and Jesse Owens) were not trusted, they were not respected, and they were all but shunned by the very people they aimed to help clear a path for just because they had EARNED the respect of the average American of the previous generation. I just wish things hadn't happened that way...and after Louis' death I'm sure Ali felt the same way, I just think it's a shame that those two great champions couldn't have shared a greater bond.

This is a GREAT answer. Joe Louis is as big a hero as Ali was in my book.

Louis is a bigger hero than Ali. Ali calling Louis a sell out and his constant bad mouthing of him is one of the most fucked up things ever. It was totally uncalled for. And it's one of the reason I will always say fuck Ali

Yep Ali was a disrespectful cold hearted punk to Joe Louis.

Louis had a great comeback to him once tho.

Ali: "Joe all you ever did was fight the bum of the month."

Louis: "You woulda been one of the bums."

To be fair Ali did also say that Louis was the greatest. Most champions had criticism from older champs, Johnson to Dempsey, to Louis, to Ali, to Holmes to Tyson.