Changing One's Mind on Fighters

[marbleheadmaui]

Greysnotold,

Locche has to be seen to be believed. Youtube only has a couple of things on him in his prime, here's a little.

The guys he's fighting are not stiffs, the first is HOFer Pambele and the last is undisputed 140 king Paul Fuji.

The whole Black Murderers Row of the 1940's, guys like Chase and Booker and Burley and Holman Williams and Lloyd Marshall and Bert Lytell were all serious, serious business.

I don't know much at all about Hogue, but anyone who beat Archie Moore, Lloyd Marshall and Eddie Booker sure had something goign for him.

[greynotsoold]

I love the way he uses his right hand, like he is shooing flies.
Here's a guy that I go back and forth on: Orlando Canizales. He was one hell of a fighter, one of my favorites for years, but I'm forever changing up on how I see him among the best bantams. I can't make up my mind on how he'd fare against Zarate, Olivares, Jofre, even Zamora on a good night. (I've only seen Jofre in the Harada fights, and I thought that he won the first one, though it has been years since I watched them) Also, Ortiz, though I've only read about him.

[marbleheadmaui]

grey,

Canzales is a guy I have always thought was one of the first beneficiaries of the alphabet system. No doubt a fine fighter, but his best win was who? Bones Adams. A very good win, butnot exactly ATG stuff is it? he had a gazillion defenses but only a handful against ranked guys. There's a lot of Johnny Tapia (one of my faves) here. I'd loved to have seen Canizales take on the Japanese guy Yakushuki? Yakushiji? I just can't see Canizales staying with the guys you listed...but we're all guessing here.

Here's some prime time Eder Jofre against no joke Jose Medel, who a year later KO'd Harada in Tokyo!

[greynotsoold]

I've seen that fight- used to have tape of it, back when stuff was still on tape.
What do you think about Kenny Norton? Back in the 70s he was my favorite HW (though I was always more a fan of the lighter weights), and I thought he was something. I guess there's no argument that he was a pretty good fighter, despite starting late, but how he merits being in the HOF escapes me.

[marbleheadmaui]

I've seen that fight- used to have tape of it, back when stuff was still on tape.
What do you think about Kenny Norton? Back in the 70s he was my favorite HW (though I was always more a fan of the lighter weights), and I thought he was something. I guess there's no argument that he was a pretty good fighter, despite starting late, but how he merits being in the HOF escapes me.

Norton was a very good heavyweight and would have probably done well had he fought in an era populated without big punchers. But he seemed to just freeze with those guys. I'm not sure he had a gladss chin ans much as a glass mind when dealing with a bomber.

Were I in charge of the HOF the first thing I'd do would be to get a series of guys out. In no order, Norton, Brian Mitchell, O Canzales, B. McGuigan (who I loved), Terry Norris, Jeff Fenech, Billy Graham, Laszlo Papp (not fair I know, but...).

Here's a guy who is aboslutely REVERED and it escapes me. Marcel Cerdan. Excellent fighter, tough guy, his fight against Zale remains a masterpiece, but he only fought 6-7 guys I know anything about. I knwo he was a victim of the war years, but life ain't fair.

[greynotsoold]

I've seen that fight- used to have tape of it, back when stuff was still on tape.
What do you think about Kenny Norton? Back in the 70s he was my favorite HW (though I was always more a fan of the lighter weights), and I thought he was something. I guess there's no argument that he was a pretty good fighter, despite starting late, but how he merits being in the HOF escapes me.

Norton was a very good heavyweight and would have probably done well had he fought in an era populated without big punchers. But he seemed to just freeze with those guys. I'm not sure he had a gladss chin ans much as a glass mind when dealing with a bomber.

Were I in charge of the HOF the first thing I'd do would be to get a series of guys out. In no order, Norton, Brian Mitchell, O Canzales, B. McGuigan (who I loved), Terry Norris, Jeff Fenech, Billy Graham, Laszlo Papp (not fair I know, but...).

Here's a guy who is aboslutely REVERED and it escapes me. Marcel Cerdan. Excellent fighter, tough guy, his fight against Zale remains a masterpiece, but he only fought 6-7 guys I know anything about. I knwo he was a victim of the war years, but life ain't fair.

I followed Norris from his 4th or 5th fight, loved him, but he shouldn't be in the HOF, nor should Inegmar Johansson. And I didn't know, but should've guessed, about Fenech. It comes from alphabet straps (which look suspiciously like pro wrestling belts) as real world titles. And having to induct a few people every year. Billy Graham was such a good fighter and I really enjoy his way of fighting but he doesn't belong either.

[marbleheadmaui]

I've seen that fight- used to have tape of it, back when stuff was still on tape.
What do you think about Kenny Norton? Back in the 70s he was my favorite HW (though I was always more a fan of the lighter weights), and I thought he was something. I guess there's no argument that he was a pretty good fighter, despite starting late, but how he merits being in the HOF escapes me.

Norton was a very good heavyweight and would have probably done well had he fought in an era populated without big punchers. But he seemed to just freeze with those guys. I'm not sure he had a gladss chin ans much as a glass mind when dealing with a bomber.

Were I in charge of the HOF the first thing I'd do would be to get a series of guys out. In no order, Norton, Brian Mitchell, O Canzales, B. McGuigan (who I loved), Terry Norris, Jeff Fenech, Billy Graham, Laszlo Papp (not fair I know, but...).

Here's a guy who is aboslutely REVERED and it escapes me. Marcel Cerdan. Excellent fighter, tough guy, his fight against Zale remains a masterpiece, but he only fought 6-7 guys I know anything about. I knwo he was a victim of the war years, but life ain't fair.

I followed Norris from his 4th or 5th fight, loved him, but he shouldn't be in the HOF, nor should Inegmar Johansson. And I didn't know, but should've guessed, about Fenech. It comes from alphabet straps (which look suspiciously like pro wrestling belts) as real world titles. And having to induct a few people every year. Billy Graham was such a good fighter and I really enjoy his way of fighting but he doesn't belong either.

I sympathize with the HOF folks. I mean I think that induction weekend generates revenue they have got to have to survive. But a mandatory four inductions for since WWII fighters is very shortly going to get out of control. I mean that implies we have 10-15 HOFers active now. It's crazy! Can't they get away with two mandatories and draw the same crowds?

[Spicoli]

grey,

Canzales is a guy I have always thought was one of the first beneficiaries of the alphabet system. No doubt a fine fighter, but his best win was who? Bones Adams. A very good win, butnot exactly ATG stuff is it? he had a gazillion defenses but only a handful against ranked guys. There's a lot of Johnny Tapia (one of my faves) here. I'd loved to have seen Canizales take on the Japanese guy Yakushuki? Yakushiji? I just can't see Canizales staying with the guys you listed...but we're all guessing here.

Here's some prime time Eder Jofre against no joke Jose Medel, who a year later KO'd Harada in Tokyo!

Canizales was missing that fellow star dance partner...say a Junior Jones when it should have happened and not lbs and years later. Bones was a quality in hindsight fighter but when he met Canizales he was a gutsy green teenager with a killer box cut and a busted jaw. Did well to hang in there in a man vs boy scrap, showed some tight boxing. Good fight.

I dont think he benifited from alpahabet boys or protected belt but def had some iffy calls...namely 1st Reyes and Hardy fights. He was the goods and a seriously slept on champion though not spectacular in any one aspect. He may have been vanilla a bit but shoot I think he did enough to beat Vasquez when he went up.