Overrating the Past......? No way!

[X]

Modern boxers will likely be better conditioned than old timers, plus (since advances in nutrition and also holding the weigh in 24 hours before the fight) they are all much bigger than their counterparts when they actually get in the ring ....... today's middleweights are definitely not middleweights when they get in the ring, which sort of defeats the object for me ........ but the old timers had better technique and experience because they fought so much more often. A world champion should not be a flawed fighter, or someone we don;t know how good they are, but modern fighters build a carefully protected record and can win one of a meaningless proliferation of 'world' titles.

The old fighters were generally tougher than modern fighters as the fights were longer, could be dirtier and the refs hardly ever stopped them. There are always a few throwbacks who are teak tough even nowadays, but I think the 'average' has dropped.

[BIG H]

You gotta look at facts. Is there any sport you can think of where the guys from the fifties, sixties and seventies are the best ever? (apart from Pele )

So, it would be odd to expect that boxing is the exception, especially when boxing is probably the sport where advances in all things to do with physicality are most utilized.

Having said that, I still think SRR is the GOAT and Wille Pepp isn't far behind So maybe I'm talking shite

[brocktonblockbust]

Of course nobody with "Tyson-esque" power ever fought Marciano---its because only Marciano had Tyson-esque power back then. And nobody could beat him. And nobody WOULD beat him, unless that person outweighted The Rock of Rocks by a minimum of 30 pounds and outreached him even worse than he was already outreached, and towered over him even more toweringly than he was already towered over.

Rocco was the shidt, and that's it folks. And dont go tryin to put him in there with Lennox Lewis-sized fighters. Would we ever ask a Sugar Ray Leonard to fight a 200 pound Michael Spinks? Because thats about the size difference, and clearly isnt a fair fight.

[ICB]

Of course nobody with "Tyson-esque" power ever fought Marciano---its because only Marciano had Tyson-esque power back then. And nobody could beat him. And nobody WOULD beat him, unless that person outweighted The Rock of Rocks by a minimum of 30 pounds and outreached him even worse than he was already outreached, and towered over him even more toweringly than he was already towered over.

Rocco was the shidt, and that's it folks. And dont go tryin to put him in there with Lennox Lewis-sized fighters. Would we ever ask a Sugar Ray Leonard to fight a 200 pound Michael Spinks? Because thats about the size difference, and clearly isnt a fair fight.

I want to ask you a question because your massive Rocky Marciano fan, is it true he lost a professional fight under the name Rocky Mack ? i know he was out of shape then, and wasn't really training. But i've heard this rumour alot and want to know if it's true or not.

[BIG H]

Of course nobody with "Tyson-esque" power ever fought Marciano---its because only Marciano had Tyson-esque power back then. And nobody could beat him. And nobody WOULD beat him, unless that person outweighted The Rock of Rocks by a minimum of 30 pounds and outreached him even worse than he was already outreached, and towered over him even more toweringly than he was already towered over.

Rocco was the shidt, and that's it folks. And dont go tryin to put him in there with Lennox Lewis-sized fighters. Would we ever ask a Sugar Ray Leonard to fight a 200 pound Michael Spinks? Because thats about the size difference, and clearly isnt a fair fight.

I want to ask you a question because your massive Rocky Marciano fan, is it true he lost a professional fight under the name Rocky Mack ? i know he was out of shape then, and wasn't really training. But i've heard this rumour alot and want to know if it's true or not.

I looked into this years ago after Britkid brought up some claims about Marciano losing an early pro fight. I'm not sure if anybody can really prove whether he lost as a pro or not, but I don't think he did. He went back and forward between pro and amatuer fights and all his losses were bouts sanctioned as 'Amateur' The fight where called himself Rocky Mack, that people claim he lost (not sure if called himself that more than once) he actually won. Can't remember is that was a pro fight or not.

...in fact I am now going to go and look into it

[brocktonblockbust]

Rocky lost a fight BEFORE he was even amateur, in Brockton, Mass to a black guy. It was like some local boxing club/gym. Marciano had thrown all his punches--about 250 they say--in the 1st 3 rounds and was totally punched-out. So knowing he would get knocked out, he kneed the poor guy in the balls, and ran out of the ring into the street. At that time he may have been 23 years old. I think he quit boxing for a year or 2 after that, and tried out for the Chicago Cubs. So that's a DQ. But I dont think that counts

[brocktonblockbust]

Anyway, like I said before, some people come into this world and by some hand of grace nobody can beat them. Marciano was one of those people. How can we explain it? To the poster who was "confused" why I started another Marciano post----some things need no explanation. This topic will never be totally discussed, there's too much mystery and fascination about it.

Balding, 2 left feet, uncoordinated, SHORTEST REACH IN HEAVYWEIGHT HISTORY, slow, DIDN'T STRAT BOXING UNTIL AGE 24, etc.... How did this guy do it? How?

[CutMeMick]

I will say that depending on the match up and the fighter I tend to favor the old school fighter over todays fighters.

Tiger, Monzon beat any of todays Middleweights.
Griffith, Armstrong & Napoles beat any of todays Welterweights.

For me it's because Griffith fought the best available sure he lost some, but he also won some. He fought 2, 3 times a month. He challenged and beat HoF'ers.

Todays fighters with the exception of a handful just don't do that.

[marbleheadmaui]

You gotta look at facts. Is there any sport you can think of where the guys from the fifties, sixties and seventies are the best ever? (apart from Pele )

So, it would be odd to expect that boxing is the exception, especially when boxing is probably the sport where advances in all things to do with physicality are most utilized.

Having said that, I still think SRR is the GOAT and Wille Pepp isn't far behind So maybe I'm talking shite

Actually it isn't odd and boxing IS the exception. Why? (in no order)
1. Weaker raw material. 50ish years ago good athletes really only had two ways to make big money in sports. Baseball and boxing. Now athletes can make money in literally dozens of sports they couldn't back then.
2. Half as many fighters. The sport is just a fraction of the size it once was. Most other sports are larger in terms of participants.
3. Fighters fight half as often. Humans get better the more they do something. Doing something less frequently necessarily means less expertise. Other sports are having longer and longer seasons and more and more practices, hence better performance.
4. Declining resources. Boxing gyms are a dying commodity, 90% are gone.
5. Boxing doesn't participate in the size explosion (except at heavy). Basketball is better because point guards are now 6'4 rather than 6' tall. Swimmers are much larger than they used to be, so are sprinters, football players, baseball players etc. But boxing is weight restricted. You simply cannot take a guy fit enough to fight 15 rounds at a rapid pace at 147 and add muscle and still have him be 147. The body simply doesn't work that way. If it did? We'd have a pile of 6'2 welters walking around. But we don't.

There is more, but you get the idea.

[johnsebastianmiran]

As far as I am concerned this is about toughness as opposed to those having access to the best trainers and nutrition etc. Now my point and there are those people that do not understand it but I will try to be brief and simple. Years ago there were boxing gyms all over the place and in order to be tough and be a man your old man dropped you off one rainy afternoon or you went there with your pennies and paid your dues. Desire brought you there and habit kept you there. You felt good and stayed until the draft board or college got you and still some guys managed to keep training and fighting. It was pure heart and muscle. Marciano was only one of thousands but we live in a society controlled by bleeding hearts that did all they could to abolish the gentlemanly art of self defense and they were too soft and delicate to try and better themselves physically in a real man's world and in some alleged fighters this bitching and moaning has appeared while yuppie executives did away with Tuesday night fights, the highest rating show for years even at the cancellation shows us why some people compare then and now and the only thing I want from then is the dedication and thank God for new advancements that may help the fighters with that old time determination survive in modern ring. Give a cool click to the author for effort.

[Mr140]

The only weight class that is effected by the time is Heavyweight because of the no limit weight.