Ten extraordinary boxing accomplishments

[porkypara]

If you actually look at who was fighting in the SMW at a time when fight could've been made, I think you will find that (good or bad) he fought everybody available. e.g Hopkins was fighting at 160, Jones was at 175, you can go on and on with this list. The only person at SMW he didn't face was Sven Ottke. Ottke only fought in Germany and JC would've been very foolish to take that fight in Germany as Robin Reid found out.

Correct.

The only reason Reid took the fight in Germany was he did not have to many options where as Calazaghe had many as long as he could stay injury free.

Only desprate or foolish men would go and fight Ottke in Germany.

[marbleheadmaui]

I know a lot of people will disagree but I think Calzaghe and Marciano's unbeaten record is also a great achevement.

To go your whole carrer and not slip up once when your fighting world class opponents is great IMO even if you dont think they were great fighters or not.

What's great about Marciano's is he wrecked the division. I don't know what to say abolut Calzaghe's. I mean when there is another unbeaten guy in your division and on your continent that you don't fight? How does one even know if Calzaghe was the best 168 within 300 miles?

Marciano fought old men and fighters way past there best.Not his fault because thats all that was about at the time.

Calzaghe was involved in many fights where he was the underdog or 50/50 and he managed to avoid defeat.

Almost all great boxers lose at some point so the fact that Marciano and Calzaghe avoided defeat in almost 50 fights each is great IMO.

I'm in the middle here. I believe both Calzaghe and Marciano accomplished great things. Actually, I believe their records are comparable in a way. As to Calzaghe, he is arguably the greatest super middleweight to have graced the ring. It doesn't bother me that he didn't fight Sven Ottke because I have no doubt in my mind that he would have taken Ottke to school with a beating worse than he put on Jeff Lacy. Although he did come over here five years too late, he beat the two fighters at or around his weight that people always questioned him about. I respect that because it's better late than never.

Respectfully, the bold and the mindset it reflects just KILLS me. It is way too common in the current boxing fan. You THINKING a fight outcome is certain is NOT equivalent to an actual victory in the ring. That logic says nobody ever actually has to fight anyone, that we can all just predict and that carries the same weight. Yet if boxing shows us anything? It shows us stunning upsets like Schemling over Louis, Braddock over Baer, Turpin over Robinson, Walcott over Charles, Laing over Duran, Honeyghan over Curry, Douglas over Tyson and on and on and on.

Like I said, Marciano had nobody left to fight, Calzaghe had a guy within 300 miles he never fought.

I don't disagree with you about that criticism of Calzaghe. And you make a good point about that mindset, I'll concede. I just was never high on Sven Ottke, less so even than I am on Felix Sturm now. That isn't an excuse for not fighting him though. I guess one thing about Calzaghe is that he fought the next WBA titleholder after Ottke and unified titles when he beat an undefeated Kessler. But, I'll agree not fighting Sven Ottke is a blemish on his record.

Wasn't there criticism of Rocky Marciano not fighting Floyd Patterson or am I wrong on that one?

You must not think highly of Floyd's undefeated record either then I assume because he hasn't fought 5 eligible welterweights over the past 5 years that he should have fought.

When Marciano retired, Patterson was fighting journeymen and still coming along. I think the criticism is Marciano retired before he had to (he was 33) and had he stayed another year or so Patterson was the next challenge.

I don't think much of ANYONE's unbeaten record just because they are unbeaten. It is all about who you fight. THAT is what puts a record in context. There is a list of about 8-9 guys I wish Floyd had fought instead of 8-9 guys he actually fought. He is a great fighter. But he hasn't accomplished anywhere close to what I think he could have.

[marbleheadmaui]

If you actually look at who was fighting in the SMW at a time when fight could've been made, I think you will find that (good or bad) he fought everybody available. e.g Hopkins was fighting at 160, Jones was at 175, you can go on and on with this list. The only person at SMW he didn't face was Sven Ottke. Ottke only fought in Germany and JC would've been very foolish to take that fight in Germany as Robin Reid found out.

Correct.

The only reason Reid took the fight in Germany was he did not have to many options where as Calazaghe had many as long as he could stay injury free.

Only desprate or foolish men would go and fight Ottke in Germany.

None of this is right. Calzaghe didn't fight Frankie Liles or Thomas Tate or Stevie Collins or Ottke or Antwun Echols who were all top five ranked guys for several years at 168 while Calzaghe was there.
I grew up where champions wanted to be CHAMPIONS as in the only one. Had somebody besides Marvin Hagler been claiming to be middleweight king you know what Hagler would have said?

Your brother can be the ref, your parents can be the judges and we'll fight in front of all your relatives in your backyard...now put'em up!

This idea that it's ok to avoid the other guy because he might get hometown cooking is a horrendous one. Look at how men like Arguello and Azumah and Dick Tiger and Lopez and Pedroza and other greats went over and over again onto the other guy's home turf. Great fighters SEEK OUT the great challenges. They don't find excuses for not taking them.

[ross]

None of this is right. Calzaghe didn't fight Frankie Liles or Thomas Tate or Stevie Collins or Ottke or Antwun Echols who were all top five ranked guys for several years at 168 while Calzaghe was there.
I grew up where champions wanted to be CHAMPIONS as in the only one. Had somebody besides Marvin Hagler been claiming to be middleweight king you know what Hagler would have said?

Your brother can be the ref, your parents can be the judges and we'll fight in front of all your relatives in your backyard...now put'em up!

This idea that it's ok to avoid the other guy because he might get hometown cooking is a horrendous one. Look at how men like Arguello and Azumah and Dick Tiger and Lopez and Pedroza and other greats went over and over again onto the other guy's home turf. Great fighters SEEK OUT the great challenges. They don't find excuses for not taking them.

Do you follow boxing?

Collins was due to defend his title against Calzaghe but pulled out and retired rather than take a beating. He was knocked out in sparring leading up to it by Howard Eastman.

It was on a bill titled "the full monty" which was the same night as my first bout. Eubank was due to fight Mark Prince at light heavy but had the balls to take the fight for the vacant title and drop the extra weight on just over a weeks notice.

Calzaghe stayed the course and after 11 years as a defending champion he fights and dominates the young, undefeated, unified Kessler who has gone on to prove himself against Froch.

Oh, also, Echols was a middle!?

[marbleheadmaui]

None of this is right. Calzaghe didn't fight Frankie Liles or Thomas Tate or Stevie Collins or Ottke or Antwun Echols who were all top five ranked guys for several years at 168 while Calzaghe was there.
I grew up where champions wanted to be CHAMPIONS as in the only one. Had somebody besides Marvin Hagler been claiming to be middleweight king you know what Hagler would have said?

Your brother can be the ref, your parents can be the judges and we'll fight in front of all your relatives in your backyard...now put'em up!

This idea that it's ok to avoid the other guy because he might get hometown cooking is a horrendous one. Look at how men like Arguello and Azumah and Dick Tiger and Lopez and Pedroza and other greats went over and over again onto the other guy's home turf. Great fighters SEEK OUT the great challenges. They don't find excuses for not taking them.

Do you follow boxing?

Collins was due to defend his title against Calzaghe but pulled out and retired rather than take a beating. He was knocked out in sparring leading up to it by Howard Eastman.

It was on a bill titled "the full monty" which was the same night as my first bout. Eubank was due to fight Mark Prince at light heavy but had the balls to take the fight for the vacant title and drop the extra weight on just over a weeks notice.

Calzaghe stayed the course and after 11 years as a defending champion he fights and dominates the young, undefeated, unified Kessler who has gone on to prove himself against Froch.

Oh, also, Echols was a middle!?

Echols was a top five ranked 168 from 2001-2004. Thanks for the Stevie Collins correction. The rest of the point remains.

[BIG H]

If you actually look at who was fighting in the SMW at a time when fight could've been made, I think you will find that (good or bad) he fought everybody available. e.g Hopkins was fighting at 160, Jones was at 175, you can go on and on with this list. The only person at SMW he didn't face was Sven Ottke. Ottke only fought in Germany and JC would've been very foolish to take that fight in Germany as Robin Reid found out.

Correct.

The only reason Reid took the fight in Germany was he did not have to many options where as Calazaghe had many as long as he could stay injury free.

Only desprate or foolish men would go and fight Ottke in Germany.

None of this is right. Calzaghe didn't fight Frankie Liles or Thomas Tate or Stevie Collins or Ottke or Antwun Echols who were all top five ranked guys for several years at 168 while Calzaghe was there.
I grew up where champions wanted to be CHAMPIONS as in the only one. Had somebody besides Marvin Hagler been claiming to be middleweight king you know what Hagler would have said?

Your brother can be the ref, your parents can be the judges and we'll fight in front of all your relatives in your backyard...now put'em up!

This idea that it's ok to avoid the other guy because he might get hometown cooking is a horrendous one. Look at how men like Arguello and Azumah and Dick Tiger and Lopez and Pedroza and other greats went over and over again onto the other guy's home turf. Great fighters SEEK OUT the great challenges. They don't find excuses for not taking them.

Calzaghe always get slated for not going away to fight. It works both ways. Did Jones go and fight Michaelczewski, did Toney or Nunn come and fight Benn or Eubank?? I'm not saying they should have, but it works both ways!

As for the list of fighters he should've fought and didn't, you are really scraping the barrel. Do you think beating any one of those (except Collins, who didn't want to fight JC) would've enhanced JC's legacy

Steve Collins retired in 1997 coz he didn't fancy facing JC. He was due to face Calzaghe and pulled out after getting beaten up by juniors in the gym, leaving Eubanks to step in!

Antwun Echols - Which belt did he have the Calzaghe needed to take and what claim did he ever have to being 'SMW King' that would make Calzaghe need to fight him? His claim to fame was beating Charles Brewer, who almost had him out of there inside 2 rounds.

Thomas Tate - You are really clutching at straws here. What did he ever do that made him more worthy of an opponent than the gys Calzaghe was fighting arounfd that time. Eubank, Reid, Brewer, Veit, Woodhall, Mitchell- all more worthy than tate imo. I can't think of a single fighter of note that he beat?

Frankie Liles - Liles was in his twighlight by the time JC was champion, I guess he could've fought him circa 98, but Byron Mitchell did the job for him and JC Subsequently spanked him inside 5 minutes

As for fighting in another fighters back yard, I was specifically referring to Sven Ottke's 'Back Yard' which I think you would have to agree is a bit of an exceptional case in terms of bias!!

[marbleheadmaui]

If you actually look at who was fighting in the SMW at a time when fight could've been made, I think you will find that (good or bad) he fought everybody available. e.g Hopkins was fighting at 160, Jones was at 175, you can go on and on with this list. The only person at SMW he didn't face was Sven Ottke. Ottke only fought in Germany and JC would've been very foolish to take that fight in Germany as Robin Reid found out.

Correct.

The only reason Reid took the fight in Germany was he did not have to many options where as Calazaghe had many as long as he could stay injury free.

Only desprate or foolish men would go and fight Ottke in Germany.

None of this is right. Calzaghe didn't fight Frankie Liles or Thomas Tate or Stevie Collins or Ottke or Antwun Echols who were all top five ranked guys for several years at 168 while Calzaghe was there.
I grew up where champions wanted to be CHAMPIONS as in the only one. Had somebody besides Marvin Hagler been claiming to be middleweight king you know what Hagler would have said?

Your brother can be the ref, your parents can be the judges and we'll fight in front of all your relatives in your backyard...now put'em up!

This idea that it's ok to avoid the other guy because he might get hometown cooking is a horrendous one. Look at how men like Arguello and Azumah and Dick Tiger and Lopez and Pedroza and other greats went over and over again onto the other guy's home turf. Great fighters SEEK OUT the great challenges. They don't find excuses for not taking them.

Calzaghe always get slated for not going away to fight. It works both ways. Did Jones go and fight Michaelczewski, did Toney or Nunn come and fight Benn or Eubank?? I'm not saying they should have, but it works both ways!

As for the list of fighters he should've fought and didn't, you are really scraping the barrel. Do you think beating any one of those (except Collins, who didn't want to fight JC) would've enhanced JC's legacy

Steve Collins retired in 1997 coz he didn't fancy facing JC. He was due to face Calzaghe and pulled out after getting beaten up by juniors in the gym, leaving Eubanks to step in!

Antwun Echols - Which belt did he have the Calzaghe needed to take and what claim did he ever have to being 'SMW King' that would make Calzaghe need to fight him? His claim to fame was beating Charles Brewer, who almost had him out of there inside 2 rounds.

Thomas Tate - You are really clutching at straws here. What did he ever do that made him more worthy of an opponent than the gys Calzaghe was fighting arounfd that time. Eubank, Reid, Brewer, Veit, Woodhall, Mitchell- all more worthy than tate imo. I can't think of a single fighter of note that he beat?

Frankie Liles - Liles was in his twighlight by the time JC was champion, I guess he could've fought him circa 98, but Byron Mitchell did the job for him and JC Subsequently spanked him inside 5 minutes

As for fighting in another fighters back yard, I was specifically referring to Sven Ottke's 'Back Yard' which I think you would have to agree is a bit of an exceptional case in terms of bias!!

Roy Jones is ABSOLUTELY as guilty as Calzaghe of not fighting guys like Darius and Liles and Benn and Eubank etc. But he gets a little slack in that he destroyed a prime James Toney!

Both men's legacies would have been enhanced by choosing the other strapholders and determining a real champion.

[Master]

George Foreman winning heavyweight title in his 40's, and 20 years after he lost it.

[marbleheadmaui]

George Foreman winning heavyweight title in his 40's, and 20 years after he lost it.

How in HELL did I leave that out?

[banging head on desk]

[IamInuit]

Burns fighting Johnson and breaking the colour barrier and being shit on by that racist authour Jack London deserves honourable mention.

[porkypara]

If you actually look at who was fighting in the SMW at a time when fight could've been made, I think you will find that (good or bad) he fought everybody available. e.g Hopkins was fighting at 160, Jones was at 175, you can go on and on with this list. The only person at SMW he didn't face was Sven Ottke. Ottke only fought in Germany and JC would've been very foolish to take that fight in Germany as Robin Reid found out.

Correct.

The only reason Reid took the fight in Germany was he did not have to many options where as Calazaghe had many as long as he could stay injury free.

Only desprate or foolish men would go and fight Ottke in Germany.

None of this is right. Calzaghe didn't fight Frankie Liles or Thomas Tate or Stevie Collins or Ottke or Antwun Echols who were all top five ranked guys for several years at 168 while Calzaghe was there.
I grew up where champions wanted to be CHAMPIONS as in the only one. Had somebody besides Marvin Hagler been claiming to be middleweight king you know what Hagler would have said?

Your brother can be the ref, your parents can be the judges and we'll fight in front of all your relatives in your backyard...now put'em up!

This idea that it's ok to avoid the other guy because he might get hometown cooking is a horrendous one. Look at how men like Arguello and Azumah and Dick Tiger and Lopez and Pedroza and other greats went over and over again onto the other guy's home turf. Great fighters SEEK OUT the great challenges. They don't find excuses for not taking them.

LOL

Judged on this post You dont know what the fuck you are on about!


Not going to wast my time with this stupid person