Does Manny stop Shane?

[miron_lang]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

[ninjaspy3]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Hatton - Maybe he did look improved against Malinaggi but it was 2 years after Malinaggi already got roughed up by Cotto. Plus Hatton had already lost to Mayweather a full 2 years before meeting Pac.

Cotto - This one is ok. But there was the beating from Margarito (who possibly cheated). Interestingly, Pac was Cotto's 3rd fight in 2009. Cotto bit off a lot not long after the Magarito loss. Maybe too much.

Margarito - Beaten by Mosley. Next he wins a 10 round decision against Garcia? Hmmmm Margarito can obviously take punishment, but his fight with Cotto seems to be the last time he could really dish it out, so it leaves question marks about Margaritos actual punch power.

Morales - Well, fighting Pac right after losing by UD... That would seem to me the definition of a weak showing. Sure, he beat Pac earlier, but he seemed "hot/cold" at that time. Just prior to beating Pac by UD, he had lost to Barrera by MD.

All in all, there is a little truth to the sentiment expressed. Hatton, Cotto, and Margarito met Pacquiao after trying to recover from rather major defeats except for Morales, which I just explained.

And now, Mosley. No explanation needed.

[miron_lang]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Hatton - Maybe he did look improved against Malinaggi but it was 2 years after Malinaggi already got roughed up by Cotto. Plus Hatton had already lost to Mayweather a full 2 years before meeting Pac.

Cotto - This one is ok. But there was the beating from Margarito (who possibly cheated). Interestingly, Pac was Cotto's 3rd fight in 2009. Cotto bit off a lot not long after the Magarito loss. Maybe too much.

Margarito - Beaten by Mosley. Next he wins a 10 round decision against Garcia? Hmmmm Margarito can obviously take punishment, but his fight with Cotto seems to be the last time he could really dish it out, so it leaves question marks about Margaritos actual punch power.

Morales - Well, fighting Pac right after losing by UD... That would seem to me the definition of a weak showing. Sure, he beat Pac earlier, but he seemed "hot/cold" at that time. Just prior to beating Pac by UD, he had lost to Barrera by MD.

All in all, there is a little truth to the sentiment expressed. Hatton, Cotto, and Margarito met Pacquiao after trying to recover from rather major defeats except for Morales, which I just explained.

And now, Mosley. No explanation needed.

People are picking on this list because Pacquiao has destroyed EVERYONE yes every LARGE MAN put in front of him. so we find an answer on why it happened?

Morales - Morales beat Pac the 1st time so objectively Pacquiao needs to beat him right? Morales is a big star Pacquiao is a big star so WTF? he needs to fight him again how can you object to this fight.

Hatton - What was the best fight for Pacquiao at the time? Yeah i agree it was the Lineal Jr. Welter champion Ricky Hatton

Cotto - Yeah he lost to Margarito so that means he's not worthy for Pacquiao who also lost not once but thrice?. Cotto is bigger than Pacquiao Cotto is younger than Pacquiao there's no fvcking way a rational boxing afficionado would criticize a Cotto match except for the catch weight. Oscar wasnt a catch weight because its Oscar period but againts Cotto. team Pac thought it was necessary so Cotto came in 145 from 146 againts Clottey. (There's should have been no catchweight)

Margarito - You did not get the 1st post. The Margarito that showed againts Pacquiao was the optimum version. That version absorbed punishment the same way he has done in the past.

* Pacquiao is fast enough and has enough power to mandhandle this big guys and not because of made up bollocks.

[ninjaspy3]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Hatton - Maybe he did look improved against Malinaggi but it was 2 years after Malinaggi already got roughed up by Cotto. Plus Hatton had already lost to Mayweather a full 2 years before meeting Pac.

Cotto - This one is ok. But there was the beating from Margarito (who possibly cheated). Interestingly, Pac was Cotto's 3rd fight in 2009. Cotto bit off a lot not long after the Magarito loss. Maybe too much.

Margarito - Beaten by Mosley. Next he wins a 10 round decision against Garcia? Hmmmm Margarito can obviously take punishment, but his fight with Cotto seems to be the last time he could really dish it out, so it leaves question marks about Margaritos actual punch power.

Morales - Well, fighting Pac right after losing by UD... That would seem to me the definition of a weak showing. Sure, he beat Pac earlier, but he seemed "hot/cold" at that time. Just prior to beating Pac by UD, he had lost to Barrera by MD.

All in all, there is a little truth to the sentiment expressed. Hatton, Cotto, and Margarito met Pacquiao after trying to recover from rather major defeats except for Morales, which I just explained.

And now, Mosley. No explanation needed.

People are picking on this list because Pacquiao has destroyed EVERYONE yes every LARGE MAN put in front of him. so we find an answer on why it happened?

Morales - Morales beat Pac the 1st time so objectively Pacquiao needs to beat him right? Morales is a big star Pacquiao is a big star so WTF? he needs to fight him again how can you object to this fight.

Hatton - What was the best fight for Pacquiao at the time? Yeah i agree it was the Lineal Jr. Welter champion Ricky Hatton

Cotto - Yeah he lost to Margarito so that means he's not worthy for Pacquiao who also lost not once but thrice?. Cotto is bigger than Pacquiao Cotto is younger than Pacquiao there's no fvcking way a rational boxing afficionado would criticize a Cotto match except for the catch weight. Oscar wasnt a catch weight because its Oscar period but againts Cotto. team Pac thought it was necessary so Cotto came in 145 from 146 againts Clottey. (There's should have been no catchweight)

Margarito - You did not get the 1st post. The Margarito that showed againts Pacquiao was the optimum version. That version absorbed punishment the same way he has done in the past.

* Pacquiao is fast enough and has enough power to mandhandle this big guys and not because of made up bollocks.

I can agree with the reason for fighting Hatton but it doesnt make Hatton's previous performance look better. The same goes with Morales.

Regarding Cotto losing the way he did to Mrgarito is the point I was making. Of course Pac is a great fighter but I still think Cotto had it a bit hard.

And what is this "optimum" Margarito everyone is mentioning. What is it making him so great all of a sudden on the night he fought Pac as opposed to his previous 2 fights? Because he "looked" in good shape?

The fact that Pac is a great fighter need not make all other points untrue.

[generalbulldog]

Meh. Name me 1 fighter in boxing history where you cannot pick apart his resume. There is no such thing as a flawless resume.

And BTW, the majority of people here had Hatton beating Pac, and at least half of the forum had Cotto beating him. And quite a few had Margarito beating Pac. Same people in this thread too. Hell it's the same on other boxing forums too. But after the victories it was some excuse.

[killersheep]

Meh. Name me 1 fighter in boxing history where you cannot pick apart his resume. There is no such thing as a flawless resume.

And BTW, the majority of people here had Hatton beating Pac, and at least half of the forum had Cotto beating him. And quite a few had Margarito beating Pac. Same people in this thread too. Hell it's the same on other boxing forums too. But after the victories it was some excuse.

Except the great Sven Ottke

[Gandalf]

Meh. Name me 1 fighter in boxing history where you cannot pick apart his resume. There is no such thing as a flawless resume.

And BTW, the majority of people here had Hatton beating Pac, and at least half of the forum had Cotto beating him. And quite a few had Margarito beating Pac. Same people in this thread too. Hell it's the same on other boxing forums too. But after the victories it was some excuse.

Except the great Sven Ottke

Quite true. Amen to this.

[marbleheadmaui]

Meh. Name me 1 fighter in boxing history where you cannot pick apart his resume. There is no such thing as a flawless resume.

And BTW, the majority of people here had Hatton beating Pac, and at least half of the forum had Cotto beating him. And quite a few had Margarito beating Pac. Same people in this thread too. Hell it's the same on other boxing forums too. But after the victories it was some excuse.

I dunno. Good luck picking apart Greb's or Robinson's or Canzoneri's or Barney Ross's or Muhammad Ali's or Joe Louis' or Willie Pep's.

Perfect isn't possible, we are human after all. But the word overwhelming comes to mind.

[Pavlik]

the pressure is on Pac because PBF was so dominant in his fight with Shane anything other than a kayo will be a disappointment on most fans. 2 scenarios here: my guess would be if Pac uses the lateral movement he used vs odlh and not stay inside for too long it might just end up like the odlh fight. shane's weapons here are clinch left hook to the body lil space straight right repeat process, down goes Pac hopefully not

[generalbulldog]

Meh. Name me 1 fighter in boxing history where you cannot pick apart his resume. There is no such thing as a flawless resume.

And BTW, the majority of people here had Hatton beating Pac, and at least half of the forum had Cotto beating him. And quite a few had Margarito beating Pac. Same people in this thread too. Hell it's the same on other boxing forums too. But after the victories it was some excuse.

I dunno. Good luck picking apart Greb's or Robinson's or Canzoneri's or Barney Ross's or Muhammad Ali's or Joe Louis' or Willie Pep's.

Perfect isn't possible, we are human after all. But the word overwhelming comes to mind.

I'm pretty sure I could do it with Ali since I've seen almost all of his bouts and his biggest bouts have all been written extensively and the circumstances surrounding the fights, I can't say the same thing about the rest of the fighters you listed because there are just a few clips here and there of their career.

I'll tear down Ali's resume right here.

Cooper 1: A club fighter that had Ali seriously hurt in round 4 and the controversy with the split glove incident. Not a great win.

Liston I: How old was Sonny Liston again? No one knows, there are rumors he was pushing close to 40 in their first fight and he only train for a few rounds, not expecting it would last long.

Liston 2: A lot of controversy. Phantom punch anyone? And Ali was never a 1 shot ko artist in his career, but he hurt Liston? And Liston seemed like he was acting, got up, got pummel by Ali a little and Jersey Walcott stopped it.

Patterson 1 and 2: Patterson was 187 pounds against Ali who was around 210-215 during this period. Patterson is basically a LHW by today's modern terms if rehydration is factor in. Plus Patterson was known to be chinny. Never a great HW champ.

Frazier 1: lost decisively in the fight of the century.

Frazier 2: Many people considered Frazier to be close to shot in this fight. NOt a great win with hindsight.

Frazier 3: went life and death with what seemed to be a washed up Frazier. Even Dundee and Ali thought he was shot coming into this fight that's why they wanted it. Ali later admitted he didn't want to come out for the 15th but Futch threw in the towel instead. But it's Frazier that gets the bad rap.

Norton 1,2,3: It can be strongly argued that Ali lost 2 of 3 not Norton. All 3 fights were extremely close and Norton has a strong argument that he won at least 2 of 3 and possibly all 3.

Foreman: Foreman suffered a cut during training camp, plus he was harrassed and hated by locals and didn't have a great training camp. Also Ali never gave him a rematch.

Leon Spinks 1 and 2: A mediocre fighter who had only 7 or 8 pro fights and beat Ali. Ali would regain the title but come on it's Leon Spinks!


So you see it's not hard to tear down any fighter's resume. Just need to have some background info and fight footage for their biggest bouts and tear away one can. Of course I don't believe in all that. BUt that was an example.

[Gandalf]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Cotto - Destroyed by Margarito, came back against fluff

Hatton - Knocked out by both the post and Mayweather. Malignaggi has since proven that he is far from elite, plus can't punch

Margarito - Destroyed by Mosley. A year out banned.

Morales - Loss to some guy who none of us can remember. Weight drained and stopped against Pac

Mosley - 2 crappy performances on the trot, older than the rest of the previous opponents combined.

Manny is great, Manny also picks carefully.

[miron_lang]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Cotto - Destroyed by Margarito, came back against fluff

Hatton - Knocked out by both the post and Mayweather. Malignaggi has since proven that he is far from elite, plus can't punch

Margarito - Destroyed by Mosley. A year out banned.

Morales - Loss to some guy who none of us can remember. Weight drained and stopped against Pac

Mosley - 2 crappy performances on the trot, older than the rest of the previous opponents combined.

Manny is great, Manny also picks carefully.

LOL. You just describe some negative stuffs in your mind about those fighters. You mean they are the reason they got the fight againts Pacquiao?

Bulldogs above post is actually a good reply to this post.

---

i see your memory is not as good as it used to be. but i still like to ask you this question.


Before these fights took place do you remember how you feel leading up this so called cherry picked fights?

[generalbulldog]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Cotto - Destroyed by Margarito, came back against fluff

Hatton - Knocked out by both the post and Mayweather. Malignaggi has since proven that he is far from elite, plus can't punch

Margarito - Destroyed by Mosley. A year out banned.

Morales - Loss to some guy who none of us can remember. Weight drained and stopped against Pac

Mosley - 2 crappy performances on the trot, older than the rest of the previous opponents combined.

Manny is great, Manny also picks carefully.

No offense Miles, but you can't make excuses now after those victories. When if I'm not mistaken you were one of the loudest supporters that Hatton and Cotto would murder Pac. You can't be Nastradamus now after the fact and make excuses why Hatton and Cotto lost. If you felt that way then maybe you should have said it beforehand and said Pac would win those fights easily and not come out with excuses now after the fights took place and they lost.

That's one thing that always bother me about boxing fans that they come out with every excuse to downgrade another fighter's win, when they picked the other guy to win in the first place.

[Gandalf]

This is a horrible fight for me. Pacquiao has a history of taking on fighters who are coming off of weak showings and then putting them away for good. Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Morales etc.

Cotto - Back to back wins before facing Pacquiao

Hatton - Looks so much improved in the Malinaggi fight. Memory problems?

Margarito - Yeah he didnt look all that againts his trainer but. He looked in the best form of his life againts Pacquiao.

Morales - Yeah he lost to Zahir Fu_cking Raheem he was so dejected in this fight that after 12 rounds Raheem was still trying to run and he was still tryin to knock him out. Just 10 months before he did something that not even Barrera in 2 tries, Marquez in 2 tries, Cotto, Margarito, DelaHoya, Hatton and Clottey wasnt able to do. yeah he beat Manny Pacquiao.

etc - Yeah maybe.

Cotto - Destroyed by Margarito, came back against fluff

Hatton - Knocked out by both the post and Mayweather. Malignaggi has since proven that he is far from elite, plus can't punch

Margarito - Destroyed by Mosley. A year out banned.

Morales - Loss to some guy who none of us can remember. Weight drained and stopped against Pac

Mosley - 2 crappy performances on the trot, older than the rest of the previous opponents combined.

Manny is great, Manny also picks carefully.

No offense Miles, but you can't make excuses now after those victories. When if I'm not mistaken you were one of the loudest supporters that Hatton and Cotto would murder Pac. You can't be Nastradamus now after the fact and make excuses why Hatton and Cotto lost. If you felt that way then maybe you should have said it beforehand and said Pac would win those fights easily and not come out with excuses now after the fights took place and they lost.

That's one thing that always bother me about boxing fans that they come out with every excuse to downgrade another fighter's win, when they picked the other guy to win in the first place.

I was a huge supporter of Hatton winning the fight. It was the last time I ever jumped into the ring building up a fighter. Just as some men marry and deny their secret gayness, a fan will get behind his fighter and ignore the chinks. I did just that and I learned a valuable lesson (chinks, not marriage.... though some of you might argue otherwise). I was wrong. With Cotto I was much more guarded and was quite angry about the catchweight.

None of us really knew how Manny would carry the weight. History is not written in the present, views are often revised. Just as we realised that WMD didn't exist, we also came to realise that there was a pattern in how Manny chose opponents.

That is why I try not to underestimate fighters too unfairly these days. Those recent performances do mean something. And you do see a pattern in Manny's recent opponents. All very good fighters, but typically coming in off of a nasty beating or dropping weight when they shouldn't.

Manny is still an exceptional fighter though.

[Gandalf]

There were even those rumours of Hatton getting busted up in training. What did I do? I ignored it. The enemy was bombing away over the bunker and there was Hitler saying "we shall resist and beat them yet". I put my head in the sand and I deserve to be called out on that fight. One can still revise ones opinion though, just as Blair might admit that he was wrong about WMD, I can say that I was wrong about that fight. I was wrong, hands up. But this is boxing, unless you back the favourite everytime, then you are going to fuck up in your predictions sometimes. It's a sport, man against man, it isn't a place where logic is always the deciding factor. You support a guy, you must get behind him. Though I don't do it anymore. That fight changed me.