Opinion from a "Pactard"

[Kev]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.

I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.

Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.

The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.

The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...

A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.

Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.

I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.

Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?

[killersheep]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.

I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.

Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.

The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.

The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...

A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.

Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.

I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.

Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?

Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.

Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.

[Kev]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.

I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.

Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.

The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.

The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...

A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.

Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.

I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.

Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?

Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.

Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.

I love how with Manny what weight class fighters are in just doesnt matter. Marquez and Rios are both lightweight champs, if you think Kell Brook was more deserving of a shot than against the p4p number than Sugar Shane then we will forever disagree, Id love to see how they would sell that fight against the British welterweight champion.

Berto was no more fancied as a challenge than Shane was, everybody on here said he wasnt ready.

Now try picking some fighters from his own weight class, the way you wou;d for every other fighter and see what you can come up with.

[killersheep]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.

I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.

Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.

The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.

The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...

A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.

Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.

I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.

Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?

Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.

Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.

I love how with Manny what weight class fighters are in just doesnt matter. Marquez and Rios are both lightweight champs, if you think Kell Brook was more deserving of a shot than against the p4p number than Sugar Shane then we will forever disagree, Id love to see how they would sell that fight against the British welterweight champion.

Berto was no more fancied as a challenge than Shane was, everybody on here said he wasnt ready.

Now try picking some fighters from his own weight class, the way you wou;d for every other fighter and see what you can come up with.

Why do I have to pick fighters from his own weight class? How long has it been since he's fought someone in his weight class? What is his weight class anyway? I thought that was the appeal he conquers all regardless of weight class. I can't hold the guy that's wearing the crown and trumps in the sport to the same standard as everyone else, otherwise he wouldn't be on top of the pile. What did he gain from fighting Mosley? A name? the record books will have an asterisk by it anyway.

[Kev]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.

I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.

Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.

The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.

The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...

A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.

Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.

I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.

Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?

Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.

Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.

I love how with Manny what weight class fighters are in just doesnt matter. Marquez and Rios are both lightweight champs, if you think Kell Brook was more deserving of a shot than against the p4p number than Sugar Shane then we will forever disagree, Id love to see how they would sell that fight against the British welterweight champion.

Berto was no more fancied as a challenge than Shane was, everybody on here said he wasnt ready.

Now try picking some fighters from his own weight class, the way you wou;d for every other fighter and see what you can come up with.

Why do I have to pick fighters from his own weight class? How long has it been since he's fought someone in his weight class? What is his weight class anyway? I thought that was the appeal he conquers all regardless of weight class. I can't hold the guy that's wearing the crown and trumps in the sport to the same standard as everyone else, otherwise he wouldn't be on top of the pile. What did he gain from fighting Mosley? A name? the record books will have an asterisk by it anyway.

Manny hasnt fought below welterwight since the Hatton fight. If he fights Rios or Marquez it should be at 147 right?

At MIck again, for those unable to read my posts I never criticised Marquez for fighting Casay, I merely said his performances against Cruz and Coralles showed him to be as shot as Shane.

[killersheep]

More of a general comment/question.

Is it discrediting if you never thought the opponent belonged there in the 1st place.
At the very moment the fight was announced?

Manny fighting Shane is no worse than Calzaghe fighting Roy Jones or Marquez fighting Casamayor the only difference being that Manny dominated his guy more than the other two did.

Agreed, they were all waste of time fights, except JMM/Casamayor had less evidence and Marquez didn't have the options of Calzaghe or Pac.

I think both were more shot than Shane. Casa lost virtually every round to Santa Cruz a C level fighter. Shane had only lost to Floyd.

I dont see any as waste of time fights really. These guys work hard to get to the top and when there they like to amke some money for their retirements by fighting each other.

Nobody complained when Cotto fought Mayorga or Marquez rematched Katsidis.

The bar for Manny is set extremely high. It seems like only Marquez or Martinez will satisfy his detractors but even then only if Manny goes into their weight classes.

The excpectations of him are unrealistic which is not really surprising as the wish of his detractors is to see him lose...

A few points here, JMM only fought Katsidis once. Cotto was still trying out power at 154 as Foreman hits lighter than most lightweights. Cepillo had fought back to prove himself still relevant at lightweight and was the LINEAL champ at the weight class regardless of how the judges had helped him get there. As an aside Mayorga had pretty much outboxed SSM before that before the ref decided not to enforce the neutral corner rule which gave the chance for Sugar to get the KO.

Of course the bar is set higher for Manny than anyone else, he is atop virtually every p4p list of anyone that matters, and he has the pick of the litter of whom to fight.

I meant Diaz, dont know why I said Katsidis. Who was there for Manny to fight then seeing as he had the pick? Id argue only Berto, but then nobody thought Berto was ready, and seeing how he performed against Ortiz that assessment was likely correct.

Manny is at the stage in his career when he wants the big names. There are some decent young fighters out there, but none have a profile, outside of Marquez who would you have seen him fight?

Berto (shiny undefeated young WW strap holder), Marquez (to erase the fights that are his question marks on his resume), Martinez (fighter of the year, etc), Rios (bad blood, guaranteed brawl good California following), Brook (spark out another Brit, always worth tuning in for) any of them were better choices going in.

Of course noone gave Marquez shit for rematching Diaz the first fight was FOTY worthy, and people wanted to see it again.

I love how with Manny what weight class fighters are in just doesnt matter. Marquez and Rios are both lightweight champs, if you think Kell Brook was more deserving of a shot than against the p4p number than Sugar Shane then we will forever disagree, Id love to see how they would sell that fight against the British welterweight champion.

Berto was no more fancied as a challenge than Shane was, everybody on here said he wasnt ready.

Now try picking some fighters from his own weight class, the way you wou;d for every other fighter and see what you can come up with.

Why do I have to pick fighters from his own weight class? How long has it been since he's fought someone in his weight class? What is his weight class anyway? I thought that was the appeal he conquers all regardless of weight class. I can't hold the guy that's wearing the crown and trumps in the sport to the same standard as everyone else, otherwise he wouldn't be on top of the pile. What did he gain from fighting Mosley? A name? the record books will have an asterisk by it anyway.

Manny hasnt fought below welterwight since the Hatton fight. If he fights Rios or Marquez it should be at 147 right?

At MIck again, for those unable to read my posts I never criticised Marquez for fighting Casay, I merely said his performances against Cruz and Coralles showed him to be as shot as Shane.

You don't think Manny could make 140? I mean I have no doubt that Marquez and Rios would fight him at any weight anyway. Marquez, well obviously he comes up a lot, and Rios is naturally bigger that PAC anyway.

[CutMeMick]

ok fuckers STOP quoting eachother I'm getting dizzy...